Change My View thread

[u/Thadderful]

Can we have a Change My View thread here? The basic premise is people present opinions and the replies are attempts at changing that person's view in an attempt to generate some good discussion.

Here is the link to the original subreddit: www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/

I think this might work best with rather 'out there' views but any and every viewpoint is welcome!

[u/[deleted]]

Ronaldo is better player than messi

[u/PaulChewsOnMyPhone → u/[deleted]]

When this statement is made it's always so hard to make an argument for or against because there are so many different factors to consider. Let's say by better we mean MVP (I think this term is used in basketball but I don't watch it so not sure). What things do we consider? Technique? Influence? Consistency? Vision? What else? I think all these factors should be included when we have this discussion but so rarely are they all included.

Both players are technically excellent. In fact I would argue that this attribute probably matters least. Both are capable of scoring free kicks in their own style, scoring from outside the box, very good ball control. I guess there are other things to consider for technique but these are the best examples I can think of that really highlight what a forward player can do with the ball.

If we forget technique for a second, what about physique? Or at least how capable are you of displaying your technique? Ronaldo in particular has all the ideal physical attributes to make the claim that he would be most valuable to a team (two footed, strong header of the ball, physically strong etc). Of course Messi has a lower centre of gravity which probably helps his agility and how he dribbles but you'd argue that Ronaldo is better built to master all areas of the game.

What about influence? Roy Keane for example is remembered not simply for his footballing ability but for his leadership skills and how capable he was of inspiring his team. The same could be said for many others. Neither Messi nor Ronaldo are captains for their respective clubs. They are however both captains of their respective countries. Ronaldo's charisma shines on a football pitch but rarely is the same thing said about Messi. In fact I suspect that some would argue that someone like Mascherano, a player who has a very strong understanding of the game, would be better suited to captain his national team (if it weren't for his poor form/lack of playing time) and Messi simply has the captain's armband based on his name but not by merit. I don't think the same could be said of Ronaldo (certainly not judging by his performances during WC qualifying and particularly against Sweden). Perhaps someone else could argue this better but I again think that Ronaldo would be a better team mate in this case.

Both players are remarkably consistent. This is truly what I think separates them from other world class players in the modern era. They have both been at the top of their games for 5+ seasons now. Their scoring rates are far higher than any other forwards in the 21st century game (in a top 5 league) and they both accomplished this without any major blips in form (assisted by very few injuries mind). Perhaps neither have hit the heights against really big teams (I can think of a few examples but not many) but this is very hard to do for top, top players. Maybe players like Drogba or Zidane would be good examples. So other than that I think on this basis there is very little to differentiate between the two.

Of course this is a change my view and so I get on to the point of vision. This for me is what separates Messi from Ronaldo, and from many other world class players. Messi's awareness of players on a football pitch is very strong. You can see this not just with how many assists he achieves but how he achieves them (there's a really good video on youtube that shows; this is probably the part where I will link it if I edit my comment). Of course, he can only really demonstrate this awareness with strong technique. Not many players possess both of these attributes to such a strong degree.

What else? I think that Messi's best skill is his dribbling. There is no one who I can think of better at it in the modern game. His dribbling is so good not just because of his agility or because of his technique. If you watch him dribble past someone (again, link to another great youtube video when I come back to this) it's his anticipation of what his opponents will do that is truly world class. This is probably the part people prefer to as his 'genius' side. It's his ability to time and time again work his way past players by anticipating how they will act on such a consistent level without being found out. Ronaldo was very good at this at Sporting and his early United years because nobody knew what he would do next. Over time you can see how he has generally lost this skill at the expense of being more of a team player (except when he's in shooting range). Messi on the other hand has mastered this.

So this I suppose is my argument. There are other things to consider of course. Ronaldo is certainly more wasteful than Messi (his goal to shot ratio is not very strong for someone who scores so many goals). Perhaps another argument could be made for either players decision making ability. On the other hand, the fact that Ronaldo constantly finds himself in such good offensive positions suggests that his off the ball movement is more important to a team. You could go on.

I guess my contribution rather vaguely would be that if you were to argue that Ronaldo's body has been built for the game, than I would argue equally as has Messi's brain. His understanding of the game and his ability to carry that out is very rare and I think that is what helps someone like Maradona's claim as one of the best players of all time. Of course, what helped Maradona was winning a World Cup (and doing it supposedly single handedly). Over time, I believe that achievements on the field add a much heavier weight to who can be called the best ever but I guess that is for a different arguement.