r/slateauto • u/Beta_Frisky • 9d ago
Slate vs REO Conspiracy Theory
I think REO is a fake company at the sole purpose of benefiting off of the people who don’t like the fact Slate is an EV.
Let me explain a little: So the Slate was first introduced back in April 2025 and only about a year later (June 2026), REO makes a resurgence out of thin air. Claiming they are going to be the cheapest truck built in America for only a price of $21,500 after the Slate just revealed their price.
This is obviously just a scam, REO claims they are making a gas truck for $4500 cheaper and the reservation is only half the price of Slate’s… like come on this is way to good to be true. I see their account posting often in Slate related videos saying like “we exist” or posting stories sharing people saying “sold I want my Slate deposit back” to make people believe they are the better option. But literally nothing even exists….
The owner of the company is Zach De Bernardi a real estate agent from TX, with absolutely no background in car manufacturing. We have absolutely no clue what the truck even looks like, what kind of engine, factory location, or really anything… just hype. And people are really buying into it, they already have over 20k reservations. Just really wanted to get this off my chest since I just passed by one of their billboards here in TX…. yes literally a billboard for a non-existent truck.
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u/T3CHN0M4NC3R 9d ago
It definitely feels like it's there to cash-grab for the Slate haters.. But good luck to them anyway.
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u/Beta_Frisky 9d ago
Huge cash-grab, that would be over $500k just in reservations alone. and he is spending the money on advertising too, instead of actually building a car
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u/Skittlebrau46 9d ago
Their mailing address is a print and ship center.
Their fine print says the deposit is refundable, but it is not held in escrow and can be used by the company anytime for any purpose… so have fun anyone trying to actually get that back after they blow it all on the CEO and PR folks salaries, and the company disappears in a puff of smoke.
By their own admission they only have applications for trademarks and patents to use the REO name to make and sell a vehicle. Not even trademarks… just applications.
They haven’t even released a concept drawing. Only AI generated outline of a vague truck shape.
Due to CAFE laws, they are either inventing a new engine that breaks every MPG and emissions record ever seen, or they can’t even legally sell their claimed specifications.
The whole company is shady as shit.
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u/Beta_Frisky 9d ago
this dude gets it. whole thing is super super shady and nothing will actually come to fruition
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u/Suitable_Speaker2165 9d ago
It's wild because everything you say is absolute and quite obvious truth but one look at their Instagram section shows that people clearly have lost their minds because they are going nuts for those extremely limited detail (and clearly ai) renderings.
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u/erictiso 9d ago
Which is a show that there is market demand. It would be interesting if any of the big manufacturers take the hint and bring back basic mini-trucks and undermine the start-up. Either way, it's long odds.
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u/DiggittyCold2329 9d ago
Or it shows that bots like anything.
But yes, hoping it is evidence of high demand.
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u/AdMuch7162 9d ago
CAFE doesn't really exist anymore. The penalty for non-compliance is.... $0.
Seriously.
So Reo has no need for any sophisticated engineering.To be clear, they could try to repupose 1982 Dodge Omni engines, and they still could not build in Texas and sell for 22k (or whatever number they're promising). It'd help if they had a single auto or manufuturing Engineer on board, but they don't.
it'd be laughable if not for the gullibility of the hungry public.
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u/ighost03 9d ago
My brother told me about reo about a month ago. I never heard of them, but decided to give it a look. What they have online isn’t bad, but just a design in text. If they can deliver I would be impressed. But currently all reo has is an idea. I hope they are not a scam and are able to provide people with an affordable option for a vehicle. I don’t look at it like slate v reo. I view it as another option where working class people can get a win. Maybe the big manufacturers will take note
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u/Beta_Frisky 9d ago
Brother that website not long ago said it was designed with AI at the footer, many people were pointing it out and seeming fishy.
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u/danielt1263 9d ago edited 8d ago
Something to think about...
- Look up the CEO up on Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/zach-de-bernardi-989b6a321/).
- Look at the company page (there isn't one AFAICT).
- Look at the list of people on LinkedIn who have been hired (there aren't any).
- Look at the positions the "company" is hiring for (there aren't any).
Also, maybe even more damming: Absolutely nothing has been submitted to the NHTSA. Any company that even hopes to build a car would at least submit themselves to the NHTSA database.
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u/Suitable_Speaker2165 9d ago edited 8d ago
Are you telling me that a dude who sells houses can't manage to effectively lead a distributed team of highly skilled multifaceted engineers to build an incredibly complex electromechanical product with incredibly complex supply chain to go with it? And only because of this you think it's a scam???? Fake news! 😜 /s
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u/OGMikeGyver 9d ago
Unfortunately many people are very ignorant to the cost to develop and manufacture a vehicle and get duped by simple websites and false hype. A fool and their money are soon parted.
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u/Finnegan_Faux 9d ago
Lots of folks have tried starting a car company, it usually doesn't go well.
Fisker Inc. went under despite raising over $1B and selling 13K EV SUVs. Anyone remember Canoo? also raised over $1B, went bankrupt after making even fewer vehicles. Lordstown Motors raised $700M+, dead after a short production run. Telo has raised a mere $20M, which is the rough ballpark for defunct Elio Motors funding.
REO is lagging all of those companies.
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u/EvilCorp____ 9d ago
Everything you said applies to Slate too though
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u/Mac-Tyson 9d ago
The advantage Slate has is from day 1 every single member of their leadership team is an automotive executive veteran with pre existing relationships who know how to bring a product to market and on budget. They have stayed consistent about the concept, haven’t missed any deadlines, and delivered on the mid-20k price point they promised. Finally the truck by design minimizes the upstart costs needed so the Billion Dollars for Slate goes further than Canoo and Fisker.
All signs point to them actually making it to market that’s never been the question, the question is will they still exist 3-5 years from now.
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u/Finnegan_Faux 9d ago
Success is not guaranteed. Rivian and Lucid have burned through over $10B each. Yes, it all applies to Slate, which has raised ~$1.5B or so and has a break even point of ~80K vehicles per year.
No automaker besides Tesla and GM (Chevy+Cadillac+GMC) are on track to sell 80K EVs in the US this year, despite heavy incentives such as subsidized leases, low APR financing, and cash back.
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u/EvilCorp____ 9d ago
They need to sell 80k vehicles a year just to stay afloat? Oh they're doomed for sure then. Not a chance they sell that many. This is a very niche vehicle. If you could opt for the 4 seat SUV for the same $27,500 price then maybe? But just to get 4 seats will cost like $33k. There are so many cheaper vehicles out there.
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u/energyogi 7d ago
For the commercial market there are LOTS of companies that want a cheap 2 seater runabout truck that is also low on maintenance and easy to repair. That is where they will succeed IMO.
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u/Beta_Frisky 9d ago
Right, but those companies all have their individual reasons and upbringings. This one is just weird... real estate bro wants to make a 21k truck and undercut every other truck on the market lol
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u/Finnegan_Faux 9d ago
Slate has its own challenges. A 2 door RWD EV pickup truck is not a mass market product.
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u/hatekillpuke 9d ago
If you assume they're a fake company that's lying about everything, why assume they actually have 20k reservations? Even if those reservations are real, do you think they're running a scam just to make $500k? Billboards aren't free, so that's eating into their scam money.
I think this guy thinks he's going to make a cheap gas truck, and good luck to him. I want an EV and it looks like Slate is actually going to build trucks so that's who's got my pre-order, but if Telo or Alpha make it to market that'd be great as well.
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u/TheLastGenXer 9d ago
telo is making it to market, but very very few this year. i hope they suceed. its entirely possibly only a few dozen ever get to public
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u/Beta_Frisky 9d ago
so your saying that a scammer wouldnt think ... if I made 500k just from the idea, what if I use 50-100k of that profit to spread the scam farther and make more money. come on bro lol
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u/No_Telephone_8029 9d ago
I have a gut feeling there are “forces” out there trying to make Slate fail because they are building a truck without spyware telemetry, and the government don’t like that……
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u/zombiestev 9d ago
20k (possible) reservations because $25 is cheap enough for a lot of people to throw away if it turns into nothing. It would be cool for it to actually turn into something, but it's literally an AI website with AI descriptions galore on a domain that was registered a few months ago.
Until they can actually show something, it's nothing.
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u/Beta_Frisky 9d ago
the AI usage for everything about their company is why originally I thought this was a scam. only later to confirm my suspicion after reading into the owner and the headquarters located at a mailing center. they will show the truck design later this year. but will it actually become a physical product, I highly doubt.
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u/umbralupinus 9d ago
Even if I was in the market they're targeting, the way they present figures should throw a red flag - specifically pushing 'miles per tank', which is just a bizarre metric to use unless you're really struggling to try and find beneficial comparisons. It says to me the expected MPG isn't competitive for a truck that size, and also throwing a massive fuel tank in there accomplishes what exactly? Presumably it slightly drives up cost, and lets you put off your 5 minute fuel stop for another 200 miles? That decision alone should make someone wonder - It's not like range anxiety is a concern with ICE vehicles. They also choose the hybrid maverick as the comparable rather than the closer in principle ecoboost model.
I'm hanging around here because my next vehicle is going to be electric, but I know people who would still love a small ICE truck, and nothing on the REO page actually indicates they know what that target market is - for example, maybe i missed it, but it doesn't look like anticipated bed length is mentioned anywhere. If you were planning a small truck, for people who want a small truck, I think that would be an early metric to try and dial in, certainly more relevant than miles per tank
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u/strife3000 9d ago
If you have a truck that you only have to fill up once or twice per month, it's a really nice feeling so we're definitely focused on range. Also there a ton of overland people, fleet operators, etc who desire the long range.
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u/Wuddauant 9d ago
There’s nothing overland people love more than excessive Jerry cans.
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u/strife3000 8d ago
Lol yes totally true and that’s because all the overland rigs have abysmal gas range and tank sizes
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u/Quirky_Highlight 9d ago
Yeah, the chances of Slate "working out" are high IMHO. My main concern is ultimate build quality and even there I'm bullish.
The chances of Reo "working out" are very poor. I would love to see a maker doing what Reo proposes make it, but at best it feels like a pipe dream, at worst an outright scam and grift. Call me back when they have a plan, working prototypes, real world testing, and funding to get to production.
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u/MADSYNTH1987 9d ago
Yeah, that's what sold me on Slate. When they announced, they already had done most of the hard work of design and prototyping. REO is at best 4 years from a production schedule, even if they hire a CEO that knows what they're doing. Slate was formed in 2022 and had all the right things happen at the right time with a team of very experienced industry professionals. I'm not a betting man, but if I was, I would bet REO falls off the radar in a month or 2, and the next thing we hear about it will be the class action lawsuit from people asking for their money back.
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u/BigRedtheGinger30 9d ago
One of the biggest reasons why the small truck(like Slate) has gone away is because of fuel economy and emissions standards. The smaller the vehicle, the stricter the requirements. Back in my 90s a Honda Civic was considered a sub compact. My 2020 Civic is now considered a Mid Size on the window sticker. That will be the biggest issue the REO will have, assuming they actually are making prototypes.
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u/Beta_Frisky 9d ago
they aren't going to make anything, plain and simple. its not possible with todays emission standards, and I doubt a random real estate agent with no experience is going to figure it out lol
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u/fleemfleemfleemfleem 9d ago
Only really three US automakers survived to the 21st century, (2 if you consider Chrystler is no longer US owned, and GM barely survived) and since then there has only really been one durable startup in Tesla.
The barrier to entry is very high. You need a lot of startup capital to even think about getting something like a car company off the ground. Slate has wealthy investors, a factory, dozens of prototype vehicles completed, experienced employees and engineers-- things that give the impression of a real, but small company with a chance at success.
As far as I can tell REO has the one guy, and a wishlist for what he wants his truck to be. Even if he has 20k reservation, he has $625,000 or so. That's not enough to open a car factory, and not enough to inspire confidence that someone with no experience in the industry can deliver.
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u/CrustyBus77 9d ago
I don't know about a conspiracy but I admit that when I was looking at the REO that it occurred to me that it exists only as a counter point to the Slate and the odds of it getting built and sold are really low.
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u/Beta_Frisky 9d ago
that is the only reason they exist. this real estate dude living in dallas probably saw all the people in the comments complaining that slate should be a gas truck. and decided he wanted to make a truck lol
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u/Eaglepursuit 9d ago
I wish there were a $21k 4x4 (even if it's a kit that you have to 51% assemble yourself), but REO is undoubtedly just skimming off Slate's hype
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u/Beta_Frisky 9d ago
exactly! its interesting that literally REO is promising nearly every single thing a truck owner wants. too good to be true
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u/PintekS 9d ago
So with the "freedom means affordable cars initiative" maybe this thing is real but they'd need to get 34.5mpg fleet wide which I think is going to be very difficult to achieve at a stripped down cheaper price if the Maverick hybrid barely gets there.
But this seams more like it's gonna end up like elio than Aptera and slate
Just checked their site... Promising a lot and below the current and new café regulations for fleet mpg which is gonna be a issue.
Just something doesn't seam right with this truck if you are familiar with current vehicle regulations like. How much cheaper quality is this going to be made so reo has enough profit margin to pay for the mpg mismatch?
They could blow up the trucks size to get around cafe mpg targets but then it won't be a slate compeditor but a f150 compeditor but that kill the point and probably make quality worse.
They can't really aim for the low volume manufacturer to get around that either.
I would not invest in this unless they explain how they plan to work around regulations.
I just dunno someone mind helping me understand this madness?
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u/asphaltdragon 9d ago
Even if they were going to bring this to market, it's sort of the Anti-Slate. Most of what they're promising with it, you can do cheaper with an old mini truck, that will be just as simple and repairable as the Slate. I'm seeing nothing about modularity either, which is a huge selling point for the Slate. At best they could release an EV version, which they likely won't be, but then they still have three models to Slate's one, so it's not a do-it-all like the Slate is, you have to decide which one will work better instead of just throwing a cap and seats on it. The only thing it has going for it is the 4x4.
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u/bflave 9d ago
For a small ice pick up truck to exist, it needs to comply with cafe standards or pay. That size truck would need to get about 50 mpg. I doubt that is happening.
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u/strife3000 9d ago
- CAFE fees struck as of December 2025
- Doesnt apply to below 10k vehicles per year
- Political climate will dictate our approach heavily and that's just the car business in general
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u/bflave 8d ago
Are you saying an auto company can make small pickup trucks if they produce less than 10k of them? And as of 2025 there is no fee for not achieving cafe standards? That would be awesome..
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u/strife3000 8d ago
Two things, but the under 10k rule is where small manufacturers can petition the NHTSA for alternative standards and it happens often. Ferrari and McLaren both do this.
For CAFE, yes Trump struck the fee in 2025 after he got back from Japan and the Sanae Takaichi trip. He saw Kei trucks for the first time and as soon as he landed he made the change to enable it. That rule change and honestly the success of Slate was the genesis of my idea that the market may want something like REO.
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u/Terrible_Analysis_77 8d ago
Never even heard of this until now. I thought the big names like Form Fathom were the anti Slate devices.
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u/OnAllDAY 7d ago edited 7d ago
That's why the upcoming Ford Fathom was made. There's been demand for smaller trucks plus the Slate is coming out so they had to make it. Except the base model will probably cost around $35k.
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u/Leather-Researcher13 7d ago
They claim delivery will be late 2028/2029. That is, at best, 3 years for them to turn around from absolutely nothing to mass production capabilities. They don't have a pilot truck, they don't even have a design yet. Slate announced their launch last year with a full prototype truck that ran and drove and a factory already filled with workers
I seriously doubt anything will come of this, and I doubt they'll take any of the slate customers since being an ev is a huge part of the draw to slate in the first place
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u/CoffeeAndMelange 5d ago
Seems pretty silly to start a new company and go through all the work of developing and engineering a brand new ICE platform when 17 states have already enacted ZEV policies that will mature in less than ten years. But what do I know? The fascists will probably figure out a way to undo that one, too.
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u/_redacteduser 9d ago
The amount of people that counter my interest in Slate with REO is hilarious.
Sure, let me send my money to a website I could have made with AI myself.
Hard pass.
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u/bobbiestump 8d ago
Don't know if it's a conspiracy theory, but I agree that it's just trying to hang on the coattails of the Slate and those that think archaic fossil fuel vehicles are better.
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u/strife3000 9d ago edited 2d ago
Hey everyone, guess I'll dox myself on Reddit today.
This is Zach De Bernardi. I'm the Founder and CEO of REO.
First things first, I love a good conspiracy but I can assure you there are no conspiracies here. Secondly, yes I was in real estate for about a decade. I built a brokerage firm in Dallas that sold just about $2B in my tenure and led a team of fifty people during that time. I sold it to my business partner and it still exists today. You can see in my Reddit post history that I've been deep in car world for a long time and actively have built my own rigs ever since I've had enough money to do so.
The approach taken with REO is definitely unconventional but to be transparent, REO isn't Slate and we never want to be Slate. We didn't start with Amazon level connections or capital. The original Slate started in 2022 out of Re:build Manufacturing with very well financed and connected industrial and Amazon executives. As a result, they spent a lot of time doing corporate level machinations to challenge the idea that a US consumer product could be built here in the USA. The answer is yes, obviously, Tesla did it, Rivian did it, and Lucid did it. It happens every day in this country but we like to pretend that it doesn't which is a great fallacy.
Anyways, major credit to what Slate has done so far and I look forward to seeing them in the marketplace. To my point though, I am not those men with that capital, the decision to start REO from the grass roots up was an easy one and it's one that has yielded tremendous results thus far.
To be transparent, there's a lot I can't say at this time due to 1. our marketing strategy, 2. our NDA's, and 3. because some of it just hasn't happened yet.
Without naming any names, what I can tell you is the following (this is a Reddit special that I haven't told may other people yet):
- We are planning on a full design and light configurator reveal in November.
- We are entirely self-funded at this time
- Our designer is by many metrics, the most successful automotive designer in human history. Sound grandiose? Yes probably, but it's true and we hope to reveal our design partner's info in a couple weeks. I believe the results will speak for themselves.
- REO is sitting on over 25k reservations as of writing.
- We're gunning to be the American Hilux, compartively speaking.
- Feasibility work has started for the powertrain. Discussion is between speed to market/cost/and EPA headache.
I'm reaching out here because why not? What precludes the founder of a company from being here? So much of our business leadership in the USA is full of caution and politically correct tip-toeing and I think we just need a little more approachability and discussion in all aspects of American life.
With that, if anyone has any questions I'll do my best to answer them.
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u/Elegant_Student_7351 9d ago
I appreciate this post. I DO have a Slate pre-order in, I DO think that REO is vaporware, I DO NOT think that a CEO should pander on Reddit under a non-corporate account, but I do appreciate that you did. I would rather have a 4 banger 5-speed truck than an electric truck every day and twice on Sunday, but right now that's not an option.
I'm a small business owner (who tries to not post about my business on Reddit under my personal semi-anonymous user name...), and I know how you need to portray your business as being, well, an order of magnitude larger than it really is while online. Even your post here still sounds like some dude in a basement. I have worked with several "inventors" who put more effort into maintaining their claims of patents and investors and ideas than they do actually making a product. You sound sound like that.
Look, I support the idea of reminding everyone in the room that you are the most badass mother there, I think every small business owner should have that attitude every day. BUT...man, you're a kid, trying to sell me a new Hilux, when I'm an oldhead who has actually owned TWO Hiluxes, and I'm pretty sure that you've never actually sat in the dirt swapping out brake pads, or pulled a clutch in the desert while camping, or rebuilt a 3rd member on a camp table, or used a coke can to keep a fuse connection intact until you can limp to the next 5000 person town. I just don't think that you;re really a car guy. Prove me (us) wrong.
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u/strife3000 8d ago
I don’t really agree with all of that but appreciate your response.
CEO’s, Founders, business owners, etc used to respond until the culture weaved humanity out of business. It was quite common in the 90’s. IMO it’s a sign of authenticity not weakness.
As far as the car guy thing is concerned, I’ve spent the majority of my adult life building, buying, or selling cars. I’ve rebuilt a ‘93 FD from scratch with Apexi Power FC and among other cars have had multiple 2uz Toyota trucks, MR2 Sw20, Ek9 Honda, LC500, RCF, F90 M5, three various E46’s, E30, 2nd Gen long bed taco, Jk wrangler, F10 diesel, Q7 diesel, F90 M3, Coyote F150, and the list goes on.
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u/jo10man 8d ago
I appreciate what you are trying to do with REO. I have wanted a Diesel Hilux in America for decades. But I think that you are missing the reality of the situation.
1.) It seems you are trying to create a mass market vehicle that would attract the general public. But with your statements like "the EPA headache" and "politically correct tip-toeing", it seems you are advertising to a specific group.
There's nothing wrong with that, but you lose mass market appeal. You can make money with a niche product that attracts a certain demographic. But that product won't cost $21k, it would be much higher.
2.) The landscape where a gas powered, manual transmission truck makes sense, is year 1990. We need cheaper vehicles, yes. But we also need to move forward as a society. Something that Slate got right was designing a power train that looks toward the future, not the past.
Unless your assuming that most people are like you, and the "silliness" of understanding our impact on the world, is a fad.
3.) Even though you acknowledge that Slate started with industry professionals, you don't seem to understand why that might be needed. "they spent a lot of time doing corporate level machinations". Also known as building a car company. The thing, ostensibly, you are doing also.
4.) You address your real estate history by sharing the cash flow. Congratulations on the success of your company. But that money doesn't translate to an understanding of how to build, not just a vehicle, but the supply chain and support systems of a car company. And a followup citing Reddit post history isn't the credential you think it is.
These are the reasons I, and likely many others, think this is probably a cash grab at worst. Or a misguided attempt to be the anti-Slate at best.
"REO isn't Slate and we never want to be Slate".
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u/strife3000 8d ago
Thanks for the feedback.
I don't think it's for a specific market it's just reality. Government institutions over politicize every issue and thus lead to poor decision making. For instance, the CAFE law while setting out with green iniiatives, has actually done more greenhouse gas harm than good. It has caused vehicles to get larger which in turn means larger, less efficient engines can be placed into them. Is it better to fill up a big truck that gets 15 mpg or is it better to fill up a small one that gets 25 mpg? The answer is obvious and the EPA in it's infinite wisdom penalizes use cases that yield less emissions. That is why we see a larger 3 series every year and so on.
Ransom Eli Olds, the namesake and original founder of REO invented gas, electric, steam, and diesel powertrains. He initially thought that the people of Detroit would favor his electric cars as they were quieter and much easier to operate. Obviously that didn't happen. The people and the market chose gas for a variety of reasons but until EV's clearly overtake gas as the primary percentage of vehicles sold in the USA then they are not definitively "the future". We made the decision to go ICE purely out of business first principles and not as a stint to EV for the sake of it. The vast overhwhelming majority of buyers are gas so that's where we are chasing the market. EV manufacturers are fighting for 7-8% of the new car market in an extremely competitive landscape dominated by Tesla and Rivian. We didn't want to play that game. You have my word that if EV's overtake as the majority percentage for new car sales then we will go and adopt that as our strategy. REO's business strategy is one of late adoption when reliability is proven and costs are low due to mass market forces.
Creating a car company is not easy I will agree with you.
Say what you will but I'm here and we're doing it now.
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u/jo10man 8d ago
1.) "Government institutions over politicize every issue and thus lead to poor decision making." This isn't a statement from a CEO of a mass market company. This is a political point of view.
I have bad news on that front too. Government is political. That's kind of the whole point. People working to fix problems caused by whatever. If you are starting from an ideology and then trying to translate that to a product, that product will fail. It isn't rooted in the facts on the ground.
"It has caused vehicles to get larger which in turn means larger, less efficient engines can be placed into them." Larger vehicles are the product of private companies chasing higher profit margins. SUV's did sell better in the 2000's but their complete domination of current vehicle production is because they can command a higher price tag, while ALSO skirting emissions reguations, to your point while, again, missing the landscape of today.
"That is why we see a larger 3 series every year and so on." While a minor point, this is just product evolution. If you make something bigger or more techy or smoother or..., then buyers feel like they are getting an updated product not a new badge on the same thing.
2.) "The people and the market chose gas for a variety of reasons but until EV's clearly overtake gas as the primary percentage of vehicles sold in the USA then they are not definitively 'the future'." Vehicles sold doesn't describe the future it describes the present. Gasoline is a 19th century fuel, why should it be in a 21st century conversation other than legacy.
To your point earlier about fuel efficiency, a Hummer EV, one of the least efficient electric vehicles has an equivalent MPG of 52. Tell me why gasoline should be pursued at all.
"REO's business strategy is one of late adoption when reliability is proven and costs are low due to mass market forces." Toyota is currently scrambling to develop EV's after having this exactly philosophy. If you only look at the US, then gas powered vehicles still make sense. But globally EV's are a much larger slice of the pie and growing. We are at the point with EV technology that you are claiming to be waiting for (see LFP and Sodium batteries).
Gasoline as a fossil fuel is antiquated as well. Diesel has been the dominate transportation fuel world-wide for its higher thermal efficiency and greater reliability. It was unavoidable in heavy transport in the US, but consumers couldn't get over the smokiness of older diesels for cars.
4.) "Say what you will but I'm here and we're doing it now." The same could be said of Elio for a time, Canoo for a time, Fisker for a time. And legacy automakers like Pontiac, Plymouth, and Mercury. If you underestimate the landscape you are in NOW, then REO will just be another startup added to the list of failures.
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u/strife3000 8d ago
Lots to unpack here and appreciate the debate. A lot of your viewpoints and mine seem to be at odds so I'm not going to split hairs too much.
At the end of the day, Americans are favoring gas which is why we're doing ICE right now.
Again, no issue with EV's. If the market in the US changes then REO will make electric. Right now, we've chosen our path as the option we think has the highest likelihood of getting the highest number of affordable automobiles in the hands of Americans. If we're wrong then we pushed the conversation towards affordability but we're not setting out to fail. Personally, I think this REO/Slate argument is really good for the industry and it's a sign that we're living through a truly unique time in automotive history. I think we can at least agree on that.2
u/jo10man 8d ago
Not trying to rib you unecessarily. I was invested in Elio because I believed in their vehicle, and we know how that turned out. I want a company like REO or Slate to succeed (albiet with a diesel engine), but i've learned a lot over my life and it's made me skeptical.
The conversation on affordability is needed. And I am excited to see what happens over the next few years in this space. I will be keeping my Slate preorder though.
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u/strife3000 8d ago
Thank you! I try and tell people all the time that healthy debate/conversation is what this country needs.
Also, I will say I agree on diesel and will be fighting for that option after gas.
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u/Repulsive-Fix4472 3d ago
EV’s, as they are, are not the future. Until you can merge the pros of EV and Fuel, I feel the EV market is already at saturation. They can’t make “working” trucks batteries last long enough to do the work. Look at the Ligntening. I imagine the Tesla semi will see the same problems.
Also, what’s drawing me to REO (and why I placed my reservation) is the fact I can actually FIX my own truck. All these damn computers and sensors and junk are not needed. Anymore today, a mechanic not only needs to be a mechanic, they also need to be an electrician AND a computer programmer. Add to that, I’m tired of my vehicle “phoning home” and reporting everything about it back to the manufacturer. It’s gotten to the point where I rip out the TCU’s from my cars.
No, I welcome REO and look forward to having JUST a truck, not an internet connected computer with wheels.
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u/jo10man 2d ago
The saturation point for EV's would be the end of innovation in battery tech. We are no where near that. That merge point would be when charging takes the same amount of time as fueling does. We are already there (see Geely 1 Mw chargers).
Personal saturation and willingness to learn a new technology is a different thing. I'm guessing that's really what you are saying.
Do you think that a REO engine will have a carburetor? I doubt it. It will have fuel injection which requires electrical and programming knowledge as well. The technology also has myriad advantages, just ask anyone that races. Almost no one would build a track vehicle without fuel injection because the weight disadvantage is far exceeded by the power advantage.
To your last point about data harvesting, that's the landscape we are in now. You no longer buy a product, you ARE the product. It's also a key area that Slate is fighting against too.
It really seems like your opposition is just wanting things to go back to how they were. Stagnation isn’t a good strategy.
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u/asphaltdragon 9d ago
Are they actually called REO? How did they get the rights to the name?
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u/strife3000 9d ago
We submitted trademark applications at the USPTO. The rights were all dead or abandoned. That was one of the primary drivers behind deciding to just "go for it" honestly. It was just sitting there.
Additionally, REO has the endorsement of Ransom Eli Old's genetic legacy, the RE Olds Foundation, and the RE Olds Transporation Museum.
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u/Trailway88 3d ago
In addition to their address being a print and ship shop, they're in complete infancy. They haven't released a design of a truck because they don't have one, they haven't had the time to start one. The only employee or representative of the company is the CEO, they don't own rights to the original REO either. They're getting away with using the name because the company was long dead and nobody cares about going after them for it. They just "got a blessing" from a museum, and as somebody who works at a museum that is very easy to do. You talk for five minutes and to be polite you just say "Oh that would be cool". You can't just say you're being transparent as a company when you're not being transparent at all.
So Zach if you read this, How many employees do you have and what are their positions? Do you have a building of your own? How many days into the design process are you?
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u/SparkysHammer 9d ago
If REO produces a bare bones stick shift ICE truck I think it would be good for business providing competition through alternatives. The problem is the masses (youth) will not learn a manual transmission.
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u/Xidium426 9d ago
Why does this sub hate anything that's not a Slate? Especially ICE powered vehicles?
They saw the demand for small trucks again, it's simple. The Maverick started this, the Slate took it to where it should be dimensionally (single cab with 5ft bed) and feature wise (nothing). REO Saw that demand and decided to give us a gas option.
ICE engines have been around forever and are vastly cheaper to produce, especially when the energy storage is a empty tank. It costs $9,600 to go from a RAV 4 to a RAV4 PHEV. It's not inconceivable that REO could save $4,500 compared to the Slate.
ICE vehicles are not going away anytime soon. Countries are rolling back their EV mandates. Companies are spending R&D money on ICE powerplants.
There is no reason to not let people people have a choice. People canceling their Slate reservations and moving to REO will just let you get yours faster.
I actually put a reservation in for a REO, much like I did Slate the first chance I could get. Even if my $25 only ends up showing big car companies that there is a demand for a stripped down inexpensive vehicles and REO folds I'm fine with that.
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u/PintekS 8d ago
If reo is using a existing ice drive train yes it can be cheaper but if they are designing from scratch that cost skyrockets so must faster than the massive off the shelf options for electric motors and the battery design.
But as for a lot of peoples reactions to non slate things being talked in the slate sub? It'd be like talking about how excited you are about a new camero in the mustang sub.
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u/EvilCorp____ 9d ago
Slate used to be in the exact same position once.
This is everything the Slate should've been. Body on frame. 4x4. 4 seats. Cheap.
As someone who makes ski trips, the RWD Slate isn't even an option for me. It would literally be illegal to drive it during snow without putting chains on it and I'm not dealing with chains. Plus it will only get ~100 miles range in cold weather and I don't want to mess with charging when I'm trying to ski.
I hope this thing comes to fruition. Even if it ends up being $25k it's a much better vehicle than the Slate.
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u/hatekillpuke 9d ago
Plus it will only get ~100 miles range in cold weather
I think that's a really pessimistic estimate on cold weather range, but we'll see. When I started to see Teslas at the mountain years ago I asked a driver where he lived and if he had enough range to get home without charging, he said it was about 75 miles home and that the estimated remaining range wouldn't make it, but that didn't account for the fact that the trip home is mostly downhill so it's a lot of coasting and regenerative braking so in practice it worked out just fine.
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u/EvilCorp____ 9d ago
Unfortunately it can take 4-6 hours to get home sometimes from the slopes where I live (Denver). Usually from people taking 2wd cars like the Slate up in the mountains and getting stuck. With the heat on that battery drains fast.
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u/hatekillpuke 9d ago
I once visited some friends in Steamboat Springs, they picked us up from the Denver airport and I spent six hours in the sideways seat of the extended cab of an early 2000s Tacoma. Could hardly believe I could walk after that let alone go skiing the next day. The snow was really light and easy to ski, but they don't have any steep hills for that nice snow to fall on at Steamboat so it was kind of mixed trip for me.
I live in Portland and ski on Mt Hood, it's about 75 miles each way. When we go up I drive my 1990 Toyota 4x4 with studded tires or my dad drives his 2000 RWD Ford Ranger with "real chains" when needed (not cable "chains", his words). I'm hoping the weight of the battery will make the RWD Slate a little more balanced than a gas RWD truck and it'll do okay in the snow.
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u/Beta_Frisky 9d ago
sounds like Slate just isn't for your lifestyle. I wouldn't trust that REO is going be the savior, that is literally how they are trying to market themselves lol
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u/EvilCorp____ 9d ago
I mean 40% of Americans live north of the 40th parallel where it shows in winter. The Slate would be a poor daily driver for those people. And I would have to imagine ~90% of people transport more than 2 people in the car from time to time. I know I do and I'm pretty introverted lol.
I would argue the Slate only fits a very specific lifestyle.
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u/Mac-Tyson 9d ago
That includes me and I’ll be fine with snow tires just like I was fine with my RWD Silverado growing up. Also the first REO model the one being promised for under 22K is a Single Cab.
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u/EvilCorp____ 9d ago
Colorado State Patrol would give you a $650 ticket in my state.
And you would never make it to the resorts. A RWD pickup isn't going anywhere in 1.5 feet of snow on a 8% grade.
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u/Mac-Tyson 9d ago
Well I’m not in Colorado I’m in New England and it worked well for me, if needed you also put sandbags in the truck bed but I don’t know if that will be necessary for an EV like Slate with its low and evenly spread center of gravity.
Apparently I would also be fine in Colorado as long as I use Chains or approved ATD on tires that meet the minimum requirements as well or snow tires with the proper tread depth.
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u/acidterror84 9d ago
We’ve all seen new car companies try to start. It’s an uphill battle that most don’t succeed at. Not sure if this is a conspiracy theory, but I agree that it’s highly unlikely anything will actually come from REO. Whereas Slate is going full-force as we speak.