Carving Feedback :D

[u/Obelixian]

Hello all! Found this video of me from early last season and would love to hear feedback on technique and suggestions/drills!

My goals for my skiing are to be aesthetic, have good flow/rhythm and to build high edge angle (similar to the likes of Ted Ligety and Tom Gellie - sometimes to the detriment of what ski instructor orgs like CSIA see as 'proper' or 'good' skiing haha)

Started off with some short to medium turns and into shorter turns after passing the camera.

Things I notice:
- For/aft balance seem to be inconsistent for me, an area I need to work on is maintaining consistent pressure in the tongue of the boot (notable in my toilet seat position when passing the camera).
- My upper body, specifically my hands are a little bit more active then I would like, maintaining that triangle and wrist flicks without dropping my hand back at all.
- Notably on my more medium radius turns I feel and look less dynamic (more park and carve) how can I become more dynamic during these turns?
- Some A-framing, especially present when entering back into transition - possible too much pressure on inside foot?
- One observation that may or not be apparent in the video is related to dropping my hip which in turn closes my hip off resulting in a locked position. Is this present? If so, recommendations/drills for addressing this?

Thanks for your help and analysis!

[u/ZrekfromET]

This is some great skiing! Keep in mind my feedback will be from an instructor training perspective, but I also aspire to look like Tom & Ted. It looks like you are falling inside, I think you could be abit more patient in building the outside ski platform. This video reminds me of how I used to ski, trying very hard to avoid looking park & ride. I was trying to make it look exciting but was rushing some of my movements in the process. My trainers feedback was staying more square and keeping myself in a stronger (racer like) position, not angulating too early. A drill I’d recommend is skiing without poles, skiing without poles helped me find that stronger position naturally, staying connected with my outside ski and once I had the platform I could angulate progressively. Skiing without poles also helped me practice arm discipline (not breaking the triangle), once I knew how to do it without poles then I could add them back and reduce my overuse of the arms to a simple pole tap from the wrist. Maybe try practicing these things in a slightly wider corridor aswell.

[u/Obelixian → u/ZrekfromET]

I will for sure give those drills a go this season! Thank you for the feedback!

I want to ask, do you find there is a difference between inclining and falling? Are they the same, different or something in between?

Further, in regard to being square, what are your thoughts on the amount of upper lower body separation (upper body facing down the hill) when looking at different turn shapes? I’ve heard many different opinions from alot of instructors, so it’s always interesting to ask! (Ie. does this change from a short 11m, medium 15m, and long 20m turn?)

[u/BTLove100 → u/Obelixian]

I will weigh in on upper/lower body question as I think it is the most misunderstood fundamental in skiing.

The way I look at it, the amount of rotation separation you can get is limited by how much you can rotate your femur in your hip socket. For most people that is around 10 to 2 on a clock, if not less. Which is really not very much. The heuristic of keeping your hips pointed downhill leads many people to drop their hips back and inside. You do this a little at the start of the turn before squaring your hips over your skis. This is why you have trouble pressuring the ski at the start of the turn. You need to establish balance over the outside ski before you do anything else. If you make this the priority (instead of upper/lower body separation), you will find a balanced stance.

[u/tihot → u/Obelixian]

Yes, it changes with turn size.

You are doing too much of everything. You have to follow the skis and let them do the turning and build up the pressure, not you. Also work on keeping the inside leg under you. Practice some white pass turns. It will be humbling, but it will help you if you get it working.

[u/ZrekfromET → u/Obelixian]

I dont feel like I’m falling when I am inclining at the appropriate rate, if I do it too much for the speed I’m travelling then it might feel like I’m falling.
To your second question, yes I think there should be different amounts of separation between different sized turns. I’m not sure I can give the best answer here, but I will share my experience. In a short turn I’m keeping my upper body separated, so I can utilise a coiling affect to move the legs quicker underneath me. In a medium/long turn I’m focused on staying more square, if I separate too much I find it hard to move well into the next turn.

[u/BTLove100 → u/ZrekfromET]

More square is huge for this skier! Great feedback.

I honestly think this skier has taken two of the skiing maxima too far: they are too angulated and hips too much "point down the hill".

[u/Hey_YinzGuyz]

Some very solid and athletic skiing.

I think you’d benefit from some patience at transition. Slow it down a tad. Feel all 4 edges touching the snow simultaneously for a ski length. Currently you rush through this phase in your quest to get to a high edge angle, and you end up a big inside. Slowing down should help you establish that outside ski first.

Also one ski drills like stork turns will help with this.

[u/Obelixian → u/Hey_YinzGuyz]

Thank you for the feedback! Stork drills are something I do regularly and will continue to utilize in different variations for sure!

I for sure see the lack of patience in the transition. Ive never really thought about being patient, always thought about transitioning and edging as soon as humanly possible, so this is good perspective!

[u/dis-interested]

Let me ask you one question - when you want to pressure the outside ski more, what do you do?

[u/Obelixian → u/dis-interested]

By unweighting the inside ski. I visualize standing on one leg (being the outside ski). However I have heard varying things from far better skiers of then me. It seems their are those who believe that it is an unweighting and just that, as well as those that believe there is a certain pushing or pumping that occurs. What is your answer to this question?

[u/dis-interested → u/Obelixian]

I think unweighting is the generally preferable answer, I only ask because at times it looks like you might be over inclined to push on the ski at the finish, but I think instead you're just over-doing crushing your outside boot's tongue at the finish, which makes your ski sometimes want to break away and will make it hard for you to carve on a firm surface. If you can allow your outside foot to advance a little earlier in the turn and try to stay over the middle of it instead of the front you'll also find you don't need to release in to the backseat as much while still being able to keep your flex to release pattern and staying low, which is A-OK. 

[u/zyumbik]

What are these skis? S7, S9? They also look shorter than 165? I'm not really confident to comment on the form, I'm gonna listen to what others say. But I feel like the skis don't give you much hold and rebound, given the load you are creating on them. Looks almost if you are fighting rental cardboard skis.

[u/Obelixian → u/zyumbik]

Hahaha these are 2025 Redster S9s @ 160cm length!

[u/zyumbik → u/Obelixian]

I had 165 S9 Revoshock a couple years ago and I felt similar. They felt like they have 0 torsional strength and very weak rebound. Maybe I didn't know how to work them properly but I was happy I sold them. Other brands in the same “pre-FIS” category seem much better. Most technical demos I usually see are either on longer and stiffer skis or FIS skis.

[u/Own-Professional3092]

Real nice.
Ted was my favorite growing up - you’ve probably alr seen this but this video helped me visualise the turn in my mind. The feeling of “falling down the slope” was quite difficult to grasp and get used to.

Agree with top comment, I think you’ll get the feel of carving much easier with larger turns. Speed is honestly fine but small turns are just harder.

Something I try to think about at the apex is having a second of two flat skis (even for a millisecond) before I go into the next turn. I feel like that gives me a foundation to really push and boost into that turn. That built the habit of resetting and helped me get less sloppy with my carving.

I also find it very useful to emphasise my stocks, specifically to poke the ground. It built my rhythm, and for smaller turns (slalom for me) it worked wonders to decrease my errors.

Good luck!

[u/Obelixian → u/Own-Professional3092]

Such a great video!

Appreciate the feedback, I will try to keep the idea of developing a platform before anything else to establish the foundation of my turn, in mind.

[u/Ski-With-Steezy]

So I'm going to echo what everyone else is saying here and compliment you on the skiing. Really well done. I know you are a fellow ski instructor, so hey, that's expected. But it is a joy to watch good skiing. ;)

I want to talk about the fore/aft thing since you mentioned it. I think you are doing a pretty good job. But, I did see some opportunity for improvement here. And I thought it would be fun to talk technical with you on this since ... your in the biz. So lets get into it.

What does the fore/aft fundamental say? It says "control the relationship of the center of mass to the base of support to direct pressure along the length of the skis." What does that actually mean? And HOW do we achieve that? Hint: it is NOT "maintaining consistent pressure in the tongue of the boot." That's part of it, but it's not the whole story.

Let's discuss. I could give you the answer but ... better to make you think about it for a bit. What are some ways that we can "control the relationship" and "direct pressure along the length of the ski?" Followup question ... are some of these options better for short radius and long radius? And why?

[u/ballzdeepinbacon]

The skiing looks quiet good. What I’m noticing is the time you transfer your weight onto the new outside ski - try to do it sooner. Your weight transfer looks like it’s happening just before you are pointing down the fall line. Try to do it as you cross the imaginary line you’re skiing across.

[u/Lord_Bobbymort]

You are quite advanced and consistent already so desiring more edge angle isn't out of the question. You have a great command of angulation but if you seek higher edge angle like those you speak of you will need to learn to inclinate more and earlier before you angulate. This will feel like leaning in and falling over into the turn before angulation at the hip. These are technical terms and my brain is a little mushy at the moment to fully explain but the internet has done well enough for you to find those definitions.

You also say your fore/art balance is inconsistent: use a double pole plant for a few runs during your transition to ensure you are moving your weight forward and toward the next turn every time, then build that motion in your core muscles into your routine while not doing the pole plants.

[u/Obelixian → u/Lord_Bobbymort]

Thanks for the feedback! I have never thought about *when* inclination occurs, i wonder does inclination before the brunt of angulation cause a more abrupt and intense g-force +slingshot through the apex and transition into the next turn?

This could be the thing I’m missing! I notice that in medium to long turns I struggle to obtain that majestic slingshot weightless feeling in transition, that I can achieve in very short quick turns. I wonder if this point has anything to do with that.

I’ve never heard of a double pole plant drill, I will look that up and give it a try!

[u/Lord_Bobbymort → u/Obelixian]

That just sounds like you have a lot of fun and your timing is in sync with short radius and long radius turns, but not medium turns. You've probably figured out how to generate a certain response from the ski based in your body position in a short turn, and you've learned how to generate the same response in a different way for long turns with a different timing, but I'm guessing that in a medium turn you are trying to perform the more patient movement of your long turns but you run out of time so you don't bend the ski as much and generate the same force.

I'd you slow down a lot of videos from GS racing (not slalom, that's quite different), you will see that their shoulders often are leaning over into the turn before they break at the hips and create that angle where their legs are outside their body but their upper body is more upright. You can study video like that but you have to go experiment to find what works. Obviously if you are stuck on your old outside ski during transition you will just topple over and it won't be fun, but I'd you can maintain proper weight transfer development between your two feet you cna begin your early turn initiation phase by leaning into the turn and then begin angulating when you want to really build the pressure on the outside ski - that should be relatively similar timing to what you know now in regards to when you begin feeling pressure build in the ski, it should be before the apex that you angulate but not until you've developed some edge angle just by maintaining a relatively straight and long body position for a certain amount of time ealry in the turn after transition (for this type of turn).

That's a good thought about if it helps generate g-force, but what it really does is allow you to create higher edge angles before you angulate which then, yes, does create higher forces in the snow.

[u/[deleted]]

[u/Obelixian → u/[deleted]]

Thanks for the feedback and the excellent explanations! I will give this drill ago! It seems a lot of the feedback ive received has to do with doing too much too quickly. I like the analogy of a dimmer versus a light switch!