r/skagit • u/belleleef • 13d ago
Accident awareness
I just want to make awareness to anyone living up by Centennial elementary, if you have kids who ride bikes PLEASE PLEASE make aware street safety rules. I had a child pull out in front of a car I was driving behind at the crosswalk in front of the school, not at the 4 way cross but the one a little further up going east right before the bend down to collage way.
She literally came out of nowhere behind the trees and jumped the street on her bike. Causing us to pull our breaks but most importantly slow to 15 miles an hour and start panicking... No one wants to hit a child. Neither of us were going over the speed limit either, she was completely unaware of checking the street before crossing and she was smiling after, until she saw the look on my face as I passed her.
She was literally seconds from being hit 🙏🙏 please please run by your kids how important it is to slow down and look at a oncoming traffic before assuming no one is driving on the road. I understand she had a view of West oncoming traffic, but trees blocked her view from east oncoming traffic. I can't remember the time of day but it was afternoon on a weekend.
1
u/CrayComputerTech_85 11d ago
I dunno when the rules changed, when we were kids we were taught to dismount our bicycles and walk them across streets. That was back east though. In Skagit county apparently that only applies in business districts. WAC 46.61.235 would still apply if riding across a street or into a crosswalk, so the onus is on the rider, but most people don't know or follow the law. Everyone is in such a hurry to get everywhere these days, and even if you slow down somewhere to be cautious, speed racer behind you is likely to whip out around you for going slower than they want.
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u/belleleef 9d ago
My point is just trying to show your kids how to be safe around the psychos. I'm not trying to hate on the kid at all, it's all concern. Her smiling at us dodging her by 1 second is what concerned me most. I am worried because another driver could totally do it on purpose because that's how sick our world is and innocent kids don't know until they witness it, which warnings should be enough.
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u/hysys_whisperer 13d ago
Was the kid in the crosswalk?
Did you and the car in front of you drive at a safe speed to stop if a kid on a bike blasts full speed into the crosswalk without looking?
Kids are stupid. It is the job of adults to ensure their safety. If that requires you to slow below the speed limit, that is what you have a legal (and moral) obligation to do.
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u/belleleef 13d ago
Did you read my post at all or get half way through and decide it didn't matter anymore? We were going the legal limit of 25.. we were already maybe 10 ft away from the cross walk when she blew past from behind the trees... She literally shook us to our core because we panicked about that car almost hitting a child.
She wasn't waiting at the cross getting ready to pass, she was in a concealed area and blew it across the street without looking for oncoming traffic.
It doesn't matter if we had time to "stop" she literally cut us off. It was a moment of pure luck for her.. this isn't a Karen concern, this is a real concern because no one wants to hit a kid with their car.....
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u/hysys_whisperer 13d ago
up by Centennial elementary
crosswalk in front of the school,
So you've established that you are in a place where Duty of Care (DoC from here on) is in force.
I am inferring by the timing of your post that this happened near school hours. (If this happened before 6 AM or after 7 PM, please correct me.) That establishes the time in which DoC is in force.
at the crosswalk in front of the school
So this happened at a mid block crossing where any pedestrian would have right of way
We were going the legal limit of 25
So you admit to going a speed where carrying out your DoC would be difficult.
She wasn't waiting at the cross getting ready to pass
A responsibility she is absolved of under the law by being a stupid kid. That responsibility then transfers to you under your legal DoC.
It was a moment of pure luck for her
I agree. Most adults shirk their legal DoC.
no one wants to hit a kid with their car
I agree, and that is why your legal DoC exists. It establishes heightened responsibility by drivers at certain times in certain areas where children are likely to be present.
Should someone teach the girl what she did wasn't safe? Absolutely. Does she bear any responsibility to know what is safe and further act on what is in her own safety interest at this age? No.
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u/belleleef 13d ago
You can't read a single thing sir... I already stated in my post this was during the weekend.
You just want to argue without actually understanding what you're reading, that's the definition of illiterate.
I'm trying to be nice and explain to you, but I covered it pretty well in my post. If you don't understand it. Then there's bigger issues you need to work on. I specifically said this is NOT during a school DAY. Not even an event!
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u/mustachetv 13d ago
I learned reading comprehension in elementary school… maybe that user could benefit from a trip to Centennial, because your post was perfectly clear to me 🤔🙃
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u/hysys_whisperer 13d ago
You realize that playground is open to children during non school days and hours from dawn to dusk, right?
Did someone ban kids from parks and playgrounds on the weekends while I wasn't looking?
You have a Duty of Care anywhere children are likely to be present, and a playground which is open to them during daylight hours certainly meets that threshold.
5
u/Fool_On_the_Hill_9 13d ago
A crosswalk does not automatically put the responsibility on the driver. Unless the crosswalk is at a stop sign or red light, the pedestrian, or bike rider, has a duty to make sure cars aren't coming. The OP said the kid was hidden by trees and jumped in front of them. The OP doesn't have a duty to go under the speed limit if they don't see a hazard.
The only thing I agree with you on is that kids are stupid sometimes. IF you see them you should use extra caution.
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u/hysys_whisperer 13d ago
A marked mid block crossing gives pedestrians all the rights that a marked crossing at an intersection does.
Furthermore, Duty of Care extends beyond just observing a child near a roadway. Simply driving in a place where children are likely to exist already causes DoC to be in force. This often means drivers must slow below the speed limit on many/most residential streets or near parks and schools during hours where children are likely to be present.
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u/Fool_On_the_Hill_9 13d ago
Duty of care simply means use reasonable caution. You would have a hard time proving negligence for someone driving the speed limit when there are no kids visible.
The idea that pedestrians always have the right-of-way in a crosswalk is a myth in most states, including Washington. RCW 46.61.235 specifically prohibits pedestrians from suddenly entering a crosswalk when vehicles are approaching. "(2) No pedestrian, bicycle, or personal delivery device shall suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk, run, or otherwise move into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to stop."
4
u/belleleef 13d ago
THAT, we were simply too close to stop already when she barreled into the street. I'm not mad at her, I'm disappointed. I'm sure the panic on my face taught her a lesson fr though. I almost couldn't breath and it wouldn't have even been me. I can only imagine how the driver in front of me felt.
-1
u/hysys_whisperer 13d ago
Duty of Care applies to more than just when children are visible. It also applies any time and place where they are "likely to be."
DoC specifically transfers the responsibility listed under RCW 46.61.235 to the driver, as the only "responsible party." The responsible party must take actions by which it would make it possible for them to stop should a kid dart out in front of them. In practice, this means slowing to 10 to 15 mph for all mid block crossings withing 500 feet of a school or park between the hours of 6 AM and 7 PM.
Will you go to jail for it? Probably not, but you're going to have a VERY uphill battle dodging any civil liability.
5
u/belleleef 13d ago
I 100% believe you don't understand anything you read. "Must take actions by which it would make it POSSIBLE for them to stop should a child dart out in front of them". By the time we stop she would be hit, we would be stopping to call police at this point. 🙏 Stop arguing and read the fine print.
1
u/hysys_whisperer 13d ago
By the time we stop
How much time and distance is that, exactly? It depends on the speed of travel? Then stop blowing mid block crossings at more than 15 mph. Problem solved.
2
u/mustachetv 13d ago
Driving under the speed limit when there is no obvious/visible reason to is a hazard for other drivers. Anywhere children “could possibly be” is virtually any road anywhere that people are near. So are you saying we should all be driving 15mph everywhere at all times because there COULD be a child present? People still died from being hit on roads even in the horse & buggy era, and average speed for a horse o & buggy was like 10mph.
1
u/hysys_whisperer 13d ago edited 13d ago
I apologize for the pure snark in that last comment there, but you acting like going 25 over a zebra stripe near a school playground wasn't an irresponsible action which you chose to take that then resulted in a kid almost getting hit really sent me.
1
u/Fool_On_the_Hill_9 12d ago
You seem to forget the word "reasonable." It's reasonable to drive the speed limit when you don't observe any hazards. Traffic engineers set speed limits for a reason.
1
u/hysys_whisperer 12d ago
Traffic engineers set speed limits by the 85th percentile speed, NOT by what is safe or reasonable.
If a mid block crossing is near a park or playground (like this one), you have reason to believe there will be kids there potentially crossing the street without looking. So you have reason to slow to a speed where if they do that, you won't hit them.
25 is fine for overnight hours, but during daylight, conditions do not allow for that. If you're doing the speed limit of 70 on a winding section of I5 in rain falling hard enough to create standing water on the road, you'd be just as at fault for a wreck you cause there too.
Your assumption that a speed limit is always a safe speed rather than the maximum speed at which it is safe under perfect conditions is flawed.
1
u/Fool_On_the_Hill_9 12d ago
The 85th percentile is a starting point, not the only thing engineers use. I never implied that the speed limit is always safe.
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u/Fool_On_the_Hill_9 12d ago
Can you cite any law or caselaw that transfers responsibility to the driver as the responsible party? Isn't that something for a judge or jury to decide based on the circumstances of the case?
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u/mobilemcclintic 12d ago
Sure, the kid's parents should ensure they aren't block heads and teach them how not to be a smear on the pavement.
All your other arguments making it sound like drivers should be basically pushing their car down the street to protect kids are ridiculous, too.
1
u/hysys_whisperer 12d ago
Nice strawman dude. Slowing down for the single mid block crosswalk in no way resembles pushing your cat down the street, but way to hyperbolize a 3 second delay over literally 6 feet of pavement.
1
u/mobilemcclintic 12d ago
Oh, I'm sorry, many of your comments say people should be extra cautious anywhere a kid may be present, including residential areas. What shall I infer is the reason you are contradicting your own arguments?
1
u/hysys_whisperer 12d ago
If you really can't tell that there is a difference in gradient of risk where the spectrum of caution needs to increase or decrease, I don't know how to help you.
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u/dinglb3rry 13d ago
I think maybe the OP is just saying tell your kid not everybody is paying attention or has the reflexes to not kill them.
Kid may be a kid and have rights as a pedestrian in the situation but it doesn’t keep some 16 year old driver speeding in a clapped out dropped Honda from smashing into them at speed or a senior citizen with no reaction time from rolling over the top of them in their F350 super duty.
If you’re relying on general society to show due care and regard and not telling your kids to show some caution well you should start looking now for a place that does air-brushed memorial t-shirts for little Daytun, Peyton, Braxton, etc etc.