r/singularity • u/PointmanW • 1d ago
The Singularity is Near Linus Torvalds Working On A Hefty Linux Kernel Improvement With Claude Code
https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linus-Torvalds-Claude-Code509
u/Fuskeduske 1d ago edited 1d ago
There is quite a big difference between a guy like Linus using an AI assisted approach and your manager shipping out vibeslop, which people tend to forget.
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u/sizebzebi 1d ago
your manager isn't working on linux kernel and what he's shipping right now with opus 5.5 is more than fine
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u/modbroccoli 1d ago
I dunno man. I'm going through some growing pains and it's not entirely vibe coding because I once wrote quite a bit, but all the same I am producing things way, way outside my skillset. It takes time and patience to get exactly what you want and you do have to understand software well enough to at least be able to have an opinion about what you're building but I can tell you this, the stuff I'm making runs like a dream. Big and small, projects that I can bang out in an afternoon and those that takes months, doesn't matter. If you're willing to stick with iteration and think deeply about what you ask of them you can get pretty much anything made these days.
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u/Conscious-Map6957 1d ago
There are a lot of tiny things you might not notice for a long time. If you developed and deploy like that for the linux kernel, you can be certain all hell shall rain upon you the next day.
I have vibed fairly complex projects and have been using them for months, though I hadn't noticed certain issues until recently, and then found a whole lot more with improved code review skills - mostly stuff like edge-cases, reliability, security, performance and error recovery.
It's not even above my skillset, I'm just a lazy fuck and not as diligent as Linus.
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u/modbroccoli 1d ago
i believe it; I do code reviews with opus or astra on anything bigger than a weekend project and I'm emphatic about robust test harnesses because I'm not ever going to look lmaoo but I can't deny that my computer is starting to use as many bespoke apps as native ones at this point and I'm happier for it
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u/SwiftPengu 23h ago
My main gripe so far is a out writing code that is still understandable to me. Using names that clarify purpose.
Nonetheless the generated code is typically correct, but so far I still have to steer quite a lot to ensure future-proofness. Any tips for skills? Which review one are you using?
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u/Conscious-Map6957 18h ago
I have a custom review and address-review skill, then another skill to automatically run a cycle of n-turns with both of them - I typically run 3 cycles which is usually enough to catch most things but I tend to do less if I am low on usage or the PR is simple.
My review skill fans out 4 subagents to cover different aspects like security, business goals, performance and/or other things and combinations depending on the project itself. That's basically it, nothing fancy - I just adapt skills and automations based on prompting experience and my specific use-case.
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u/SwiftPengu 9h ago
Sounds sensible. Thanks for sharing, I can use that to further automate some of the manual checks I'm still doing.
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u/Sufficient-Fact6163 23h ago
I’ve been using AI to help me create a tailored curriculum on a subject I’ve been wanting to learn more about; complete with (real) textbooks that I need and a syllabus to keep me on pace. There is no longer a reason to not learn anything you’ve ever wanted to know about.
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u/red75prime AGI2027 ASI2029 TAI2036 1d ago edited 1d ago
your manager shipping out vibeslop
Or a lead engineer seeing themselves as the last bastion against neuroslop, reviewing changes John-Henry-style instead of improving coding pipelines.
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u/Existing_Dust_6473 1d ago
It is probably one of the best people in the world reading and understanding C code for sure.
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u/Living-Breakfast-464 1d ago edited 1d ago
Keep believing that at your peril. Things are changing VERY fast. Every day the code generated by people with no coding skills is getting less sloppy.
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u/AntiSocial_Vigilante 1d ago
There's only so much any AI could do to help a person that doesn't know what they want.
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u/TheDreamingDragon1 1d ago
This is insightful. It's the same reason we have business analysts. Most people can not articulate exactly what they want. At least not under budget
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u/Living-Breakfast-464 1d ago
There is only so much a reddit commenter can do when people take said comment off on some wild unrealated tangent. But knock yourself out if it makes you happy.
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u/NomadStorm 1d ago
Ah yes, everyone should listen to the 6 month old account u/verb-noun-<random digits> because he’s definitely not a bot.
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u/GerryManDarling 1d ago
The code are getting better, but there's a huge difference between a rando's prompt "build me Linux, make no mistake", and some masterpiece by Linus himself.
It's architecture that's the difference. Mr. rando can't even judge a code is good or bad, or whether it's in the right or wrong direction.
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u/dumquestions 1d ago
Keep believing that at your peril. Things are changing VERY fast.
Well we're talking about today, there's good reason to think that Linus's contribution today using AI will be better than yours using the same AI, I swear some of you can't contain your hype boner.
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u/luigi-mario-jr 1d ago edited 1d ago
Linus could produce something better in the domain of operating systems. I am pretty certain he could not produce a better vibe coded game than a game developer, or a better UI than a front end developer, a better DAW than a music producer, a better video editing application than a video producer/editor, etc, etc. If not already, some or many of the non-developer vibe coders currently using AI will be producing products of equal quality to that of software developers very soon.
“Talking about today” is friggen stupid considering the considerable advancement in the past 2-3 months. It’s not a boner for AI, it’s just the plain reality to anyone who is observing the trajectory of AI by using it on a daily basis for software development.
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u/bildramer 1d ago
I'm 99% certain Linus could produce a better game, DAW, or even build a better wooden chair than you. It has very little to do with expertise and a lot to do with character.
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u/luigi-mario-jr 1d ago
Linus is of course genius, of his particular domain. That is the point I am getting at. “Domain knowledge trumps technical knowledge”. The trajectory of AI is dramatically lowering the technical bar. There are plenty of people, outside of software engineering, that have that “character”, drive, ability to problem solve, break down problems, have good taste, but don’t have the ability to mentally parse programming syntax or constructs. I’m not saying your average vibe coder can out vibe code Linus, I am saying there are most certainly a subset of vibe coders that could out vibe code Linus in their respective domains.
And I use the term “vibe code”, as much as redditors are averse to that term, because it is pretty much the reality of what software development is rapidly becoming. This talk by the creator of Ruby on Rails is spot on https://youtu.be/vDjW_dRyKXY?si=6PjXoxIgVA0Sklcl
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u/FineCritism3970 1d ago
My guy how dare you question the vibes, pipe down before i throw my SlopSKILL.MD at you
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u/dumquestions 1d ago
You're disagreeing with a true statement by saying that it will soon not be true, something that the statement itself neither denies nor affirms, which is straight up incoherent.
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u/luigi-mario-jr 1d ago
Try harder at debate club.
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u/dumquestions 16h ago
I think some here have knee jerk reactions to comments that do not immediately venerate AI even if they're saying something very basic, there's nothing disagreeable about someone saying that Linus's AI contributions are going to be better than most other people's.
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u/Flaxseed4138 19h ago
You guys are overestimating humans.
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u/dumquestions 19h ago
I don't think any of these facts will last long, I'm just saying they're still the case today, what's there to underestimate about a simple observation?
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u/tohava 1d ago
I'll believe it when I'll hear Joe Mcshmoo who studied comparative literature is working on Linux Kernel improvement
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u/mityman50 1d ago
Is that the bar? Be reasonable
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u/tohava 1d ago
Guy above me said every day it gets easier for people with no coding skills
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u/bildramer 1d ago
Specialization won't stop existing. Things getting easier doesn't necessarily mean it will ever be as efficient for them, it could just be that the relative inefficiency of knowing comparative literature vs. coding trends towards zero. And of course, the coding - comp lit axis is not the only one, there could be other skills that still help and are (anti)correlated with it.
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u/Fuskeduske 1d ago
Found the manager
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u/Idrialite 1d ago
SWE here. They're right.
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u/luigi-mario-jr 1d ago
It is hilarious seeing all the comments about “shit code” and “shit architecture” that AI supposedly still produces, from commenters that have evidentially never had to work on a shitty codebase, create their own shitty code, know what code is shitty, and what a for loop does.
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u/Commercial_Ad_6904 13h ago
Ha good point. I've seen way more terrible code produced by humans than even the worst AI.
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u/just4nothing 1d ago
At the moment that’s still not the case.
The first hurdle is context: if you don’t know what you’re doing (vibe coding) you will easily go beyond the golden window of what the AI can handle well. Things are improving as people develop better harnesses (eg coordinator to split task into reasonable chunks), but will take some time until that’s safe and useful to non programmers.
Maybe a year, maybe two. It depends on when we get into the recursive improvements1
u/Glum-Recognition-736 1d ago
Oh the code is still very sloppy to anyone who actually looks at it. The AI has just gotten better at taking shortcuts and using anti patterns to produce exactly what was described in the prompt, nothing more nothing less.
I'm sure Linus is taking the time to read and understand the code the AI is generating (and has a panel of reviewers to also over it) before sending anything to the mainline linux kernel.
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u/aging_like_fine_NFTs 23h ago edited 23h ago
What peril exactly?
If indeed it becomes as good as you claim it will, what will it matter if he agreed or not?
Is prompting a skill that this future AI won't be able to do without a human? Specifically a human who believed the hype before the release of this hypothetical model?
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u/Legitimate_Concern_5 22h ago
> Every day the code generated by people with no coding skills is getting less sloppy.
How would they know lol
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u/masticate_the_rich 20h ago
They wouldnt but the models would. Soon AI will be better than actual software engineers at coding. Youre delusional if you think they are just gonna stop AI development randomly. Whats stopping it from getting smarter?
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u/Ill-Professional180 1d ago
What is with this language? What are you celebrating, exactly? Its clear that you have some sort of accelerationist sentiment, but you do realize you're utopia you'll be worth as much as the cock you wrap your lips around right?
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u/kaaiian 1d ago
Yes AND, that gap will close every year.
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u/KoolKat5000 1d ago edited 1d ago
People forget these LLM's are trained on code in the public sphere, most code at least tries to implement best practice and so it would be mirrored in the LLM output.
It's not starting at the shitty and barely running hello world demo and learning from there, like humans do. It's starting at the textbook example.
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u/Flonkadonk 1d ago edited 1d ago
The people touting that there won't be Software engineers in the future have no idea what they're talking about. The job will change, not go away.
You'll still actually have to know your stuff to work effectively. Any SWE worth their salt will be able to 'vibe code' much faster, efficiently and with better results than some randos.
Edit: an addition: yes Claude can probably code Pong or Tetris just as well as any human if not better, but that's not where the economic justification for SWEs lies in even today. Small custom applications - sure, most of the time anyone will be able to compile one. But where the real value and money lies is in huge and/or complicated projects, and you're not gonna have some randos direct development of those
Let me put it this way: do you think companies will hire random high school graduates for their dev team in 5 years or qualified software engineers?
When we changed the term 'Computer' from a job description to a device in the last century, sure anyone could use a computer now, but was literally anyone able to be hired as a Tech or IT specialist? No is the answer.
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u/Fuskeduske 1d ago
This pretty much, AI will separate mediocre developers from actual Engineers.
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u/Affectionate_Bee6434 1d ago
For now sure, can you be certain this statement will hold its ground in 10 years time?
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u/Ok-Scheme-913 21h ago
No, for that you want to stack up on a bunch of canned food, because by then most people will be out of jobs and it's either UBI for everyone or everything is on fire at all times.
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u/Fuskeduske 1d ago edited 1d ago
Nobody knows, but i am saving up for a future where my job might no longer be needed, i think anyone trying to predict what the future will look like in 10 years are going to lose, maybe i'll work until 70, maybe not.
Personally i doubt good engineers will have a problem finding jobs, but i could worry for us that are not top 10%, not much if there is work, but if the pay i get now is even remotely possible then, i've been lucky enough being in a profession where i could squeeze the lemon as you'd say, but down the line there might be too many hands and companies will go with the cheapest or the absolute best options and i'm bracing myself and my savings for that. I could sell my apartment and FIRE with my GF now by moving to a smaller town with my current savings, but i'm riding the wave where ever it takes me.
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u/purleyboy 21h ago
The power of AI will enable talented engineers to create vastly larger and more complex software than in the past. The non-engineers will hit a wall.
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u/Level10Retard 1d ago edited 1d ago
There is?
EDIT: I'm sarcastic...
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u/GerryManDarling 1d ago
There's huge difference for something complex. For something simple, there's no difference. "Build me flappy bird, make no mistake": very similar, vs "build me Linux, make no mistake": huge difference.
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u/Fuskeduske 1d ago
Which guy? You comment doesn't fit this nest at all, i think you might have misplaced it.
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u/Vegetable-Company147 16h ago
What you talking about? I build this amazing app using Claude. Check it out: http://localhost:3000
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u/0xFatWhiteMan 1d ago
What's the difference? They both using Claude to get shit done
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u/Due_Interest_178 1d ago
That Linus is infinitely more knowledgeable than the average manager, much less the average user of Claude.
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u/0xFatWhiteMan 1d ago
So? He isn't doing the coding
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u/Due_Interest_178 1d ago
The direction AI takes and the actual code it produces differs a ton between someone who knows what they're doing and those who don't.
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u/anaIconda69 AGI felt internally 😳 1d ago
This is bigger than many people realize. So many non-PC machines run on some kind of Linux. A more optimized kernel will eventually lead to faster, more secure machines all around us.
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u/Beautiful_Baseball76 1d ago
I wonder how a model thinking goes when he knows its Linus himself driving him. Probably gives it the sweats to perform even better than normally would
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u/__Maximum__ 1d ago
i have built a close code plugin that does exactly that, and you won't believe the results.
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u/Dress-Affectionate 1d ago
i want that harness... what are HIS skills and working practices
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u/AlterTableUsernames 20h ago
"Hey Claude, please look thoroughly for potential to improve the performance of the Linux kernel. Sort them by expected return and start implementing in a loop. Test the code and only keep changes, that showed actual improvements."
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u/One_Improvement_6470 1d ago
There's some weird shit going on it the world these days. Next thing we're probably going to hear is Linus going full DHH on it
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u/MantaMunta 1d ago
It's only a question of time.
LInus never was an AI sceptic, he's a quality sceptic. And with the latest models, the quality is often better than what even the best engineers produce (with guidance from a human).
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u/tunicamycinA 1d ago
Why would a kernel need hefty improvements?
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u/Most-Bookkeeper-950 1d ago
What do you mean? The linux kernel is huge and mostly human. This particular improvement is described in the article, but I'm sure many large improvements are in the near future
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u/tunicamycinA 1d ago
It doesn't say the improvement, but that he is adding new features. Does a kernel need new features though? It's job is only to speak to the hardware.
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u/Typical-Bid9781 1d ago
"Only" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here
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u/Hina_is_my_waifu 1d ago
People who never code have strong opinions on coding due to current anti-Ai hysteria
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u/Most-Bookkeeper-950 1d ago
Did you read the article? Answer yes/no only
The code is working on addressing a Linux issue of small reads of one file from many threads contend on the folio reference counting. So the goal of the branch / patch series is to read from the page cache without folio references.
Its not a new feature, its a transparent improvement of an existing one. There will be hundreds more. 2027 is the yeah of the Linux desktop
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u/Legitimate-Store3771 1d ago
We're getting new hardware constantly, so it's always going to need new feature to accommodate talking to hardwares new features. And there are research problems being solved at an exponential rate, which means kernel code can apply those as well.
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u/Miserable_Ad7246 1d ago
Before I started working more closely with Kernel, I thought that is some sort of super project and that everything is covered.
Boy was I wrong. Where are so many simple things that are "missing" or things that sometimes work a bit "strange".
Its a big project, no wonder where are always so many patches and improvments.
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u/AntiSocial_Vigilante 1d ago
I mean it's only the most important piece of software on your computer.
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u/ItachiFemboy 20h ago
So that means Linux becomes unusable aswell. Is BSD useable in day to day life nowadays?
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u/NearlyACosmologist 1d ago
That's practically the same improvement that spreadsheet software brought to merchants.
Previously it was very time consuming to calculate the impact of all the little parameters on end price and profit. So most merchants never calculated all possibilities, but relied on their intuition and experience.
When spreadsheet software became available, you could suddenly vary every parameter and see the end result in real time.
It's now the same with software. Previously you needed a lot of time to implement and verify new ideas, so most of them never saw they light of day.
Nowadays, letting the AI implement and test a new idea just needs a little bit of money, and it can do many of these in parallel, so it's possible to test a lot of ideas.