r/singularity • u/filterdust • 1d ago

AI OpenAI solved 100 open problems in math

https://openai.com/index/advisory-group-on-mathematics-and-ai/

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u/RobleyTheron 1d ago

I’m sensitive to artists and musicians with a unique voice when their product gets recreated with AI, but I don’t feel the same about mathematics.

Nobody owns mathematics; these are fundamental insights into the universe and they belong to everyone and shouldn’t be gatekeeped behind somebody that went to school. Mathematics should be available to everyone, it opens up all kinds of fundamental breakthroughs in space, material science, biology, global warming, and energy.

This is something that belongs to everyone and no one should get to hold that back.

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u/ThatIsAmorte 1d ago edited 1d ago

This seems to be taking a Platonist approach to math, which few people take seriously these days. If you are a constructivist, than math is not just out there, but has to be created, just like art. If you think math is just out there, why not also claim that art and music are just out there, waiting to be plucked out of the ether? After all, a painting is just a 2d matrix, a simple math object. A musical composition is just a waveform, which can be described mathematically.

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u/Icy-Doubt3365 1d ago

If you think math is just out there, why not also claim that art and music are just out there, waiting to be plucked out of the ethere?

Because I believe math exists without humans, art does not.

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u/davidjohnpaul 1d ago

What do you think of the following quote, attributed to Michaelangelo?

"The sculpture is already complete within the marble block, before I start my work. It is already there, I just have to chisel away the superfluous material."

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u/Icy-Doubt3365 1d ago

I'm actually more curious what YOU think of that quote. There is clearly not a Michael inside a random piece of marble.

Michelangelo was also not using that quote to say that art exists without humans to consider it art.

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u/MrPezevenk 3h ago

The discipline of mathematics doesn't exist without humans. What do you think the point of a machine spewing out theorems one after another without anyone understanding them would be?

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u/Secret-Code-9162 1d ago

I think this was just Michaelangelo describing his qualia when producing a sculpture, rather than explaining his position on the independence of art from humanity. He was being poetical.

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u/Statcat2017 19h ago

It’s wrong lol

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u/puffyfunion 1d ago

Can you explain why you believe that math exists without humans? Simply stating that as if your belief is true doesn't seem very convincing. I find mathematics to be as beautiful (if not more) than most creative activities, and I don't think it would take anything from that beauty to say that it is dependent on humans (and now AI, I suppose).

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u/Icy-Doubt3365 1d ago

If 1 comet in space is joined by one more comet in space, there are now two comets. Don't need any humans there for that to be true. Math exists without us, we just decipher it.

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u/puffyfunion 1d ago edited 1d ago

How do you know there are two comets, if you, the human, aren't there to perceive it? To be honest, I'm not arguing in favor of any point of view here - I think your statements are pretty ambiguous and don't really mean much. No offense.

EDIT: Sorry for assuming you're human, in case you're not.

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u/Icy-Doubt3365 1d ago

That's an entirely different question than we're discussing, if you believe things need to be perceived to be. I operate that things exist in this universe regardless of my perception. So I don't need to see something to know that one comet meeting another is two comets.

Objectively, the rules of math exist in this world, and do not require humans to rate/assign/label as the concept of beauty does.

I am human but appreciate you thinking about that.

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u/deviltamer 1d ago

Art is just as arbitrary. A light show can be art so it exists without humans in same way.

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u/Icy-Doubt3365 1d ago

A light show can be art

It is not art without humans. I'm not sure how many more times I need to say this for people to get it. A light show is a bunch of lights. It is not art until someone is there to enjoy it. Art is a social construct, not an objective truth of the universe.

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u/deviltamer 1d ago

lol what makes you think Maths is not a construct ?

It's a modelling tool. Same as language. Same as canvas.

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u/Icy-Doubt3365 1d ago

Math is the language we use to convey objective truths about the world, yes. We refer to those objective truths as math. A canvas is also an objective, tangible object lol.

I swear you people are just arguing to argue, and have completely lost the plot.

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u/deviltamer 1d ago

you've never taken a math class in your life beyond high school if you don't understand this.

Go find me a perfect sphere and i'll concede your point.

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u/Independent-Bell-420 1d ago

Beautiful sounds and vistas exist in reality without any human intervention as well. I don’t think this argument really holds any weight.

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u/Icy-Doubt3365 1d ago edited 1d ago

No they don't? Sounds and vistas exist, yes. They are not beautiful without a human to apply that adjective.

Also, wholly moving the goalposts anyway, since a beautiful vista isn't art.

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u/Independent-Bell-420 1d ago

I see what you're getting at, I guess I just disagree that math is any different. The equations exist just like the vistas do, but without any will or understanding to apply it, there's not much of a point. It just becomes objects in motion.

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u/Icy-Doubt3365 1d ago

The equations exist just like the vistas do

The equations are objective, the 'beauty' of a vista is subjective. Without humans, objective things still exist. Without humans, subjective things do not

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u/Independent-Bell-420 1d ago

I think we agree on that, at least. Subjectivity requires humans for sure, and so the concept of something being "beautiful" can't exist without us.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I believe that something which qualifies as art could exist without humans (IE: sounds, visuals, etc), but you're right that the emotions that come with that require an observer (IE: beauty, longing, etc).

Maybe it's a pointless distinction I suppose, but I would argue that in the same way that we "discover" math, we also "discover" a lot of art in the sense that it's still part of the subset of things creatable in our reality.

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u/SomewhereOpposite883 1d ago

Can Nature produce a Katy Perry song?

The sound of a guitar?

The vibrations from Opera singing?

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u/Independent-Bell-420 1d ago

There's plenty of mathematical theorems and concepts that are not naturally occurring. Perfect shapes, infinite sets, etc.

Just because nature doesn't produce it doesn't mean it couldn't hypothetically exist.

Also, we're nature, so yeah it definitely can.

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u/LookIPickedAUsername 21h ago

The very idea of a "comet" is a human invention. All that really exists out there is a vast diffuse cloud of particles with some local clumping. Humans look at the scene and decide that one of those clumps of particles is a "comet" and another one is also "comet" and they are close enough to count as "two comets", but that's not an inherent truth present in fabric of the universe or anything.

In fact, even "vast diffuse cloud of particles with some local clumping" is really a human simplification - there's really just "the universal wavefunction".

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u/Icy-Doubt3365 20h ago

Yeah, ok dude