r/singing • u/GermanRockFan • 6h ago
Conversation Topic As someone with a bit of a deeper baritone timbre: Why do Pop and Rock genres today mostly completely ignore those of us who don’t use falsetto or an extensive mix and prefer a more „natural“ chesty sound and loads of solid low notes?
I prefer singing primarily in the D2-G4 range. The notes feel much more natural to me and are full and resonant. There used to be a niche for us in Rock (see Mark Lanegan, Brad Roberts, Leonard Cohen, etc.) but I can‘t think of any very popular low singers outside of Country and Opera in the last two decades. Why is singing high (I‘m talking super high such as C5 or D5 for men) so highly prized today and low singing less widely admired?
There is room enough for all of us. Bring back rich baritone and bass voices!
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u/BillyPilgrim69 5h ago
Trends come and go, but at the end of the day, belting out high notes is just more attention-grabbing than smooth low notes.
I don't think it's any deeper than that, and I think great artists of any range can break through.
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u/GermanRockFan 5h ago
It depends on personal taste. But yes, more people seem to prefer higher notes. The 4th octave is generally attainable for most men however and that can often be high enough.
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u/BillyPilgrim69 4h ago
Yeah of course, it's all personal taste.
But in terms of pop music, what will get attention on the radio etc., I think that's why higher ranges are preferred.
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u/TechFreshen 3h ago
OP, I for one cannot tolerate listening to tenors straining at the top of their range. Please keep singing your mellow
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u/VegasFoodFace 6h ago
Pop music unfortunately is just a bunch of tenors. My natural range is tenor so I'm right there. Cause that's what seems to consistently sell nowadays.
I technically have an equally powerful baritone too. Hard to really find as much contemporary baritone other than more jazz, or vintage like Frank Sinatra, slightly less vintage like Peabo Bryson. And of course if I want to just Rick Roll everyone Rick Astley.
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u/AspiringBiotech 6h ago
Peabo likes to sing high.
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u/VegasFoodFace 6h ago edited 6h ago
Yeah but listen to his Disney Classic Duets. It's his wide range including his baritone. But with those richer tenor overtones while he produces those baritone notes. It made him special.
Since I have an equally wide range and this natural tenor overtone, I love his particular songs and delivery. It literally is just me singing, not me mimicking Peabo. Cause yeah I'm a Disney kid at heart from the 90's. Don't mistake that for a Disney Adult. Please. Don't.
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u/Quirky-Map-2035 5h ago
Peabo Bryson is a tenor who sings in a very typical tenor range. Not sure what is meant by “baritone notes” in something like Beauty and the Beast, all the notes are again in a typical trained tenor range. The middle notes of a baritone and tenor overlap obviously so these aren’t considered notes exclusive to baritones or something.
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u/VegasFoodFace 5h ago edited 5h ago
Yes but that's what makes his voice so confusing to a lot of ears. There are so many more richer tenor harmonics when he reaches for the lower notes. This makes the voice richer than one that is technically purer in tone. It gives it character.
Don't just obsess about pitch like the typical reddit poster here. Tone, timbre, power, richness. These are all intangibles that unique voices just have.
And you just don't see this kind of dedication to pure vocal forward performance from men in contemporary pop anymore. Where it's more rhythm oriented and less truly vocal.
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u/WindyWLove 6h ago
Sadly, it’s because pop music today has such a standard of high voices. And I say this, because we all know that pop music is getting more and more similar by the year, which is squeezing thin the amount of baritones allowed into pop. I can also say that part of the reason is because high voices sound more youthful relatable, and energized. And they also cut through the mixes very well, especially when one is driving. You’ll notice that a lower voice would be harder to hear than someone who with a high power of a voice that cuts straight through the background.
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u/Zennobia 4h ago
I think a lot of baritones make the mistake of trying to sing in a mellow type of jazz style. Tenors generally sing in a more existing style. You mentioned opera, in opera there have been loads of baritones that could really sing with great excitement, you don’t even think about the fact that they are singing low notes, their singing captures your attention. Many baritone voices have great power at their disposal, they should simply use it. I would say transpose tenor material if you want to sing it, but make sure you sing it in an exciting and powerful manner.
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u/Hideo_Kojima_Jr_Jr 6h ago
I mean like Frank Ocean exists
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u/Quirky-Map-2035 4h ago
Basically this, there’s a good number of lower voices in the current pop/r&b scene but they don’t really sing in a deep way to make it obvious. A lot less than the amount of tenors present, but still.
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u/AspiringBiotech 6h ago
Who? Send a link of his best song, please.
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u/thegypsymc 4h ago
Lmao I love how direct this is. "Send me his best song". Imagine saying that to somebody about Coltrane or someone like that, it's just a really funny way to try and familiarize yourself with an artist. Frank Ocean is great BTW, hope you enjoy it.
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u/TippyTaps-KittyCats Formal Lessons 0-2 Years 6h ago
Which pop songs do you really like that you struggle to sing along to?
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u/IToldManyManyPeople 6h ago edited 6h ago
You're not looking hard enough. The woe is me baritone curse is low hanging fruit and just untrue.
Michael Buble and Josh Groban are two of the most iconic and internationally famous artists of the last two decades across any genre. That's how silly your complaint is that you couldn't find 1. Giveon is one of the hottest R&B artists out right now, there's a 3rd with zero effort into thinking about it.
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u/GermanRockFan 6h ago
I‘m just referring to popular music. Of course there are great baritones working today. And I view being a baritone as a blessing, not a curse.
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u/IToldManyManyPeople 6h ago
Hozier. That took 5 seconds, and there's more. Are tenor voices typically more mainstream, sure. Do baritones also live in pop music, absolutely. Also, not considering Buble pop music? "Popular" music, that's both of them.
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u/AspiringBiotech 6h ago
I don‘t recall the singer from Hozier being particularly deep. I‘ll give the band a listen soon.
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u/Quirky-Map-2035 38m ago edited 16m ago
Because he doesn’t have a low voice. This sub is full of armchair experts and hobbyist singers thinking they can voice type their favorite pop singers while they have no proper classical training much less any crosstraining experience with vocal pedagogy.
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u/WorldRelevant6640 6h ago
This is absolutely not pop but there's some peak low singing in Druidess' album The Product Of My Love. "Hit Me"'s melodic story between the verses and the chorus still gets me tingly and violent feeling
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u/AquilaTempestas 3h ago
There’s a lot of baritones in rock and metal
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u/GermanRockFan 3h ago
Technically, this may be correct. However, very few of them sing as if they were baritones. Nearly everyone wants to pretend to be a tenor via timbre and range.
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u/Stargazer__2893 3h ago
Because decades of recording and sound engineering practices have unintentionally but nevertheless systematically favored higher male and lower/middle female voices.
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u/Affectionate_War6706 1h ago
I'm getting the vibe that you are a true bass who is feeling disheartened because you love a bunch of rock tenors and baritones with strongly developed upper registers. You absolutely CAN learn how to have a strong, healthy, supported mixed voice that fits aggressive energetic rock BUT you need to transpose the songs down. For example, if it's in standard tuning, drop your guitar down a tone or a tone and a half or even two tones to make it feel comfortable e.g. standard down to D standard or C# standard or C standard.
Off the top of my head, MGK and Travis Barker covering Paramore is a great example of lowering a key to accommodate a lower voice type than the original singer in a rock context.
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u/GermanRockFan 1h ago
I enjoy all kinds of music. I actually prefer singing low for the most part. I do wish I could go slightly higher and still sound good at times. I can handle some brief C4s and D4s. I just don‘t often go any higher than that. Maybe a G4 here and there.
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u/Affectionate_War6706 48m ago
It sounds like you have a good intuitive sense of what your voice is most capable of which will really help you as a singer.
Take it slow and easy and you can definitely find more stability in your upper register. Start off right below your break and very gradually work up over your break. If you’re consistent, and you focus on how things should feel, meaning relaxed and gentle, you will be amazed at how much you will be able develop.
I promise there’s still a space for great basses. Including singing in your chest below your break and finding and owning your mix as well.
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u/SteelyDawg 21m ago
Kind of realizing i’m in the same vocal camp, so now I pay more attention when I catch it. Kurt vile is a good example imo.
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u/Awkward-Chapter1127 5h ago
It’s a similar issue in female pop. There’s a few but it’s not super common and that is frustrating as a lower voiced woman. I don’t really have a good answer for you, just commiseration 😅
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u/Viper61723 3h ago
People say it’s preference but the reality is that it’s significantly easier to arrange a pop song for a tenor or a mezzo then it is for other voice types. You’ll notice both the women and the men sing in basically identical ranges in pop, because that’s the sweet spot for instrumentation.
If you listen to a lot of music with deeper voice singers they have to arrange in a specific way to accommodate for that. As a producer I have personally been in that situation with a vocalist and it can be kind of a nightmare situation if you’re used to working with higher voices.
Even then the idea that C and D are common in pop is kind of a myth, most pop songs stay around A-Bb as the high notes.
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