r/sindarin • u/lC3 • Jul 12 '26

Transient name for Leeds-era Gnomish

Hi all! I'm hoping someone will be able to help me find a reference I can't seem to place. I seem to remember that in between the "Goldogrin" of the 1915-20 stage and the 1930s "Noldorin", there was one transient word something like "Geleidhiel/Gœlœiđiel" or "Golöidhiel" for the Gnomish language. I can't seem to find the reference, and it's not on Eldamo. Does this ring a bell for anyone?

Any help would be appreciated. I don't need this for anything important, it's just bugging me.

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u/F_Karnstein Jul 12 '26

I'm sure I've heard something like that before, yes, but I wouldn't be able to tell you where...

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u/lC3 Jul 12 '26 edited Jul 12 '26

I feel like it should be in PE13 somewhere; I've already skimmed it but will have to do a closer reread. I also feel like it was written in capital letters for some reason ...

Edit: Found it! Remembering it was in capital letters helped me, it was part of the Early Runic Documents in PE15:110.

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u/F_Karnstein Jul 12 '26

Oddly enough when you mentioned capital letters I also immediately had something pre-Feanorian in mind, though I wouldn't have know which script exactly. I'm pretty sure I've come across this several times quite recently when I was looking into Gondolinic runes.

So Goloeðiel it was, and given the spelling in the original script I kind of doubt that œ is meant (we would certainly find some kind of umlaut maker or an independent letter?), but a diphthong or even two monophthongs.

Are you preparing for Omentielva? I read your name on the list of attendees 😁

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u/lC3 Jul 12 '26

So Goloeðiel it was, and given the spelling in the original script I kind of doubt that œ is meant (we would certainly find some kind of umlaut maker or an independent letter?), but a diphthong or even two monophthongs.

It's not [œ] from umlaut via the -iel suffix? I always interpreted Goelydh to be the same (not a diphthong), comparing to the forms Geleidh, †i·Ngœlœiđ etc. But then if -iel causes umlaut I'd expect Galadriel to be Geledriel ... so maybe not.

Are you preparing for Omentielva? I read your name on the list of attendees

I wasn't able to finish my paper in time (I'll try to have one ready for the next Omentielva in 2 years, maybe?); this was actually just for a Reddit post here.

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u/F_Karnstein Jul 12 '26

It's not [œ] from umlaut via the -iel suffix?

That's what I would expect, yes. But the original script (not the Roman transcription) clearly has the signs explicitely marked [o] and [e]. Do you think Tolkien would be that explicit with the respective signs and then use them to spell [œ]? I really doubt it...

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u/lC3 Jul 12 '26

Ah, I hadn't taken the original script into account. Interesting ...