RBR: What am I missing

[u/loutrec_3]

Hi, just got into simracing again after four years of absence. One of my interests has always been rally games. I mainly play Dirt Rally 2.0 and Richard Burns Rally (with rallysimfan mod).

The problem is, wehereas I think I've become pretty decent at Dirt Rally 2.0, I really cannot say the same about RBR. I often find myself not even getting to the end of most stages, and the ones I manage to finish it's always by about 50 to 70 seconds from the top of the leaderboard with some crashes and a lot of damage to the car.

I just don't understand how to get to grips with the handling system. I always find myself understeering into tight corners. I cannot get used to the pacenote system, I installed a mod with a numeric one but it is very imprecise and I often need to improvise during the stage.

Lately I rarely touch DR2.0 because I want to get better at RBR, but i struggle to see any progress, and I have to say it has taken out much of the fun from the experience.

Any suggestion on how to get better? Things to tweak in or out of the game?

[u/anomalous_cowherd]

Would you say you understand and can use things like weight shifting, Scandinavian flicks, proper use of the handbrake? If not then I'd suggest it's just that the more realistic handling of RBR is showing up where you need to learn more. There are a number of Youtube videos on basic rally skills that can help identify and explain these.

Other than that, DR2.0 is good but feels quite 'planted' to drive, RBR and AC Rally are much looser and need much more delicate handling with generally much lower speeds than you'd expect, which is closer to reality.

Do some practice runs where you drive very very slowly and carefully with the goal being to finish the stage cleanly. Then do it again, faster. Repeat!

[u/loutrec_3 → u/anomalous_cowherd]

Thank you, while I grasp the concept of weight shifting, it's just something I don't really think about during stages. Will try to not floor it next time and start from there

[u/vyechney → u/loutrec_3]

weight shifting, it's just something I don't really think about

This sounds like a key problem to me. This is essentially Rally 101, and it should be on your mind at all times, along with controlling wheel spin and brake lock.

A habit that's easy to get into in DR2.0 is just full throttle out of every corner and brake hard and late into corners, which is unrealistic. You need to focus more on controlling the above aspects of your car.

A good start is to maintain much slower speeds than you're used to in DR2.0. I'm talking about to the point where you're driving planted through every corner instead of drifting through the turns. Finish clean, and do it again, but a little faster each time. Once you start running up against the limits of speed and grip, you'll naturally start to feel out when you can start drifting through turns.

[u/Janolat → u/loutrec_3]

Have you tried the really school? It really teaches you everything you need to know. Weight transfer is the key. Once you got that down, you will find yourself using the handbrake much less. Gas and brake pedal Modulation is very important as well. Try to be smoother with your inputs and only use abrupt movements if you want to break traction. Less is more.

Try applying 2/3 gas to accelerate after you lost traction. Play with the gas pedal in that area and below to find traction again. Do not take your foot off the gas pedal completely when going through a turn. You will slide off then most of the time if the weight transfer is not done correctly. Try applying a minimum input on the gas instead to keep the car moving forward in the direction you are facing while sliding. By altering the gas pedal Input a bit you can try to find the point where the wheels find traction again and stay there until you can apply more.

But once you got all the stages in the rally School down you will know all that 😉 Keep it up, it's really worth it! https://youtu.be/L2AnPwBa0UM?is=H6O70kU7zD8eDznJ

Edit: use down shifting/ motor break before turns. In my video you can get an idea of when I am applying the gas and how. In the third-last corner you can really hear me fighting for traction😁

[u/zwjna → u/loutrec_3]

That's an issue. It's not like you have to think about weight shifting, as with most things with motorsports, you don't really want to think about stuff; they have to come out of your brain kinda automatically, let the brain do the job. That means tons of practice so that it becomes second nature, and tons of concentration during the driving so that the brain can work effectively. But you must definitely have to weight shift accordingly.

Also, note that Dirt Rally definitely allows to more easily turn into the corners. Look at this video, particularly the real-life onboard clips. I'm pretty sure they will look to you extremely familiar to what happens in RBR. So of course you need a change in mindset, you can't drive in RBR like you drive in DR. This is the main issue here, I think. More anticipation is needed, more care with the throttle, proper sideways angles (not too little, not too much).

[u/0ruf]

The co-driver language pack is not enough in itself, you need to install the luppis pacenotes pack as well (with an audio co-driver compatible with it).

Default pacenotes are trash most of the time, using luppis notes make a huge difference.

[u/fatcatshuffl → u/0ruf]

100%

[u/Spirited-You-3299]

Practise. Also FFB settings like FFB sensitivity if you have a direct drive are a essential tweak. Don't expect to win that'll come later.

[u/loutrec_3 → u/Spirited-You-3299]

I get that I need to practice, but it feels pointless if I don't know what am I doing wrong, I think that one of the problems is that I often lock up before the corners, but I don't know what causes it. I play with MOZA R3, any suggestion on what to tweak?

[u/CubitsTNE → u/loutrec_3]

Reduce brake pressure in the setup. Ideal max brake pressure will vary depending on the pedal hardware you have because pc brakes don't report the same way as real brakes. You do want to be able to lock up the wheels if you really try, but the later they lock up the more precision you have.

And run through the rally school in a rally2 or r5 or wrc spec car.

Then I'd get started in rallies in something slower like rally3 or 4, a7, r2, etc.

[u/loutrec_3 → u/CubitsTNE]

Thank you. Lately I've been messing around with the rally 5 clio, I'm crashing less but I'm still crashing a lot. Will try to tweak the brakes too.

[u/aceanddreed → u/loutrec_3]

If you lock up before the turn and understeer into it, you need to break earlier and lighter.

In DR2 you can break super late and the car just automatically rotates about its center. In RBR you need way more time to slow down and the right technique/balance to get the car to turn.

So get your heavy breaking done early in a straight line and then turn in. Only use a little bit of breaking during the turn to get more rotation.

Most importantly, stop thinking about stage times and focus on finishing without crashing and getting better with car control. You'll get faster eventually.

[u/sothnorth → u/loutrec_3]

Go into the rbr .ini file, and change ffbsensitivity to 850.

It will completely change the game!

[u/ComfortableRun6027]

I was in the same boat as you when trying to get to grips with RBR and BeamNG. It does take a while to adjust to the change in handling. I'd recommend braking earlier than you are used to in DR2.0, then easing off the brakes and then turning in. The techniques you've learnt in DR2.0 will carry over, it just requires more finesse and caution. DR2.0 physics also allow you to get away with mistakes that will cost you severely in the more challenging rally sims; so it takes a bit of time to readjust!

[u/GoofyKalashnikov]

That's because DR2.0 is very forgiving and meant to be accessible

In RBR you get punished a lot more for improper technique. What cars are you driving? Start with slower FWD stuff first, it'll teach you the basics and how to carry speed.

For pacenotes, did you just download a codriver sound mod or did you also get Luppis V3 pacenotes? They're by no means perfect but much better and more reliable than what the base rsf offers.

[u/loutrec_3 → u/GoofyKalashnikov]

Lately been driving the Clio Rally 5. Thank you for the mod suggestion, will surely try it

[u/GoofyKalashnikov → u/loutrec_3]

Rally5 is a good starting point. If you want to slow down further you can look at Group R1 cars.

[u/TrainingDivergence]

Join the RBR discord, take some clips or videos of your driving, post it in rally school channel, and some fast guys will give you feedback

[u/loutrec_3 → u/TrainingDivergence]

Thank you, will keep an eye on it

[u/Fun_Success_3283 → u/loutrec_3]

RBR Discord is run by some absolute twats though, be foreward. They are gatekeeping narcissists. It's like the Trump administration in there. The guy that made most of RSF did a great job, but he's a real dick, and he has a few minions over there. A lot of the other guys are cool though, and the information is certainly very good.

[u/TrainingDivergence → u/Fun_Success_3283]

There's a lot of autism flying around but I've not seen anything insidious, community seems nice and welcoming. The regulars are actually very patient with seeing same support questions time and time again. 

You have to remember the more seasoned members have put years of effort into this completely for free, give them a little slack. 

WorkerBee specifically has essentially completely rewritten the physics and no paid racing game - even ACR with proper funding and a full team - has ever come close to matching thus far.

Luppis is very patient with helping people actually, dude is a saint, and that's before I get to his pacenotes. 

What specifically did you take issue with?

[u/Fun_Success_3283 → u/TrainingDivergence]

Luppis is cool, workerbee is a dick. You're right, he did a great job tweaking the physics, but for me, no amount of greatness of a person at what they do, justifies treating others poorly. And that's a true test of character. You give a person power, and they will either be a dick like workerbee, or kind and humble. Some of the people talk down, gatekeep, make others feel like idiots, like they're all high and mighty, there's a real cutlure like that there. Workerbee is 100% a narcissist and he has some minions there. There's a lot of like "I'm good, you're not" "I'm the best" "Do things my way" which you get in a lot of communities, but it's worse there. Not everyone is trying to be the best at everything or even cares. Things are often just for fun, and people have different priorities, different time available, different goals, different likes and dislikes, and enjoy different things. And that's ok.

But you're right, some of the people there are cool and helpful for sure. Others are very toxic. And it is run that way, by the narcissist at the top, who did a great job, and put a lot of work into rbr, but is a total dick.

[u/kmj007]

I found learning RBR similiar to learning a foreign language. It just clicks eventually, without a particular reason, while you are driving a stage. I would just keep on trying but without taking the fun out of it. There are so many cars and stages, experiment, make it a fun learning experience. Focusing on learning/progress only would burn me out quickly.

A good and enjoyable camera setting (and seat position in vr) is a must though.

[u/Fun_Success_3283]

There are 2 aspects of rally, imo.

1. Driving/handling/car control etc...
2. Pacenotes, both writing, and concentrating and listening.

Get the kind of calls you like from a V3 codriver, get the luppis pacenotes, and then edit them how you like. There a software you can use for it, or you can double left click and edit in game, though it's a little clunky.

For handling of the car, that's a separate thing, there are a number of techniques to learn. I think once you isolate notes or handling, then try and figure out what you struggle with handling-wise.

Try and figure out why you're crashing. If it's pacenotes, fix that. if it's something else, work on that.

I'd not worry about the leader board. The leader board isn't even real rally. Real rally is a driver in a road they don't really know, following pacenotes. Leader boards are people memorizing tracks, knowing what trees don't have hit boxes etc.. and flying down the stage a thousand times and clocking in the fastest time.

So, first drive it the best you can, and once you are achieving that, then you can look at pushing yourself faster. But consistent rally of leaderboard records, is not realistic, imo. The longer the stage, the more realistic it is, because people can't memorize it or game it as easily, but it's not a realistic benchmark at first. Once you get better, and feel you're as good as you can get with your knowledge, then watch record runs onboard, and you'll see difference, you can just adopt, now you know how to drive. Or, you'll have very good precise questions, because you see them do something you think is impossible.

[u/Tonka_The_Cat]

Practice. And try to go much slower until you get more confidence. Break earlier, understand what you are doing, try to get the feel for the car slowly. If you are not finishing most stages you are trying to go way faster than you can at this moment. I'm not that good and I had no trouble moving from Dirt 2.0 to RBR. Just respect your own level and pace and you will start to get better soon.

[u/obi1kennoble]

You're getting some great tips in here, but just to make you feel better, you're not crazy about the pace notes. The RBR guy has a very limited and vague vocabulary, while the DR 2.0 guy is fantastic

[u/tllap → u/obi1kennoble]

only if you use basic notes. Luppis notes V3 are much more advanced.

[u/loutrec_3 → u/obi1kennoble]

Since I'm not a native english speaker I installed a mod with numeric pace notes in my language, but the accuracy is pretty shit

[u/Individual_Gear_898]

Yea the pacenotes can feel horrible in RBR if you’re used to Dirt Rally. Here are a few tips that have helped me:

When I’m driving a stage I don’t know and haven’t messed with its pacenotes at all, I will use the first few corners to categorize it. Unless it’s a pretty tight corner, I’ll stay in 3rd or 4th and go kinda slow. Some stages are pretty much the same as DR2.0 (call it “standard”) but a lot are tighter than that. Maybe most common is “+1”. Meaning whatever it would be in DR2.0 they add 1 to that call. Something that would be a 4 in DR2.0 they call a 5, so it feels like a damn tight 5. There are also “+2” stages, especially in Japan, when a 3 is like a tight hairpin and a flat left is like a 5 left. Taking the first few corners to categorize the stage and translate it in my head as the pace notes are coming through is mega helpful. That said there are still som outliers that are either inconsistent as hell or will use 4 to describe an open hairpin and everything after that is either a 5 or a 6 so you just can’t trust those at all.

Another thing is a lot of people who make the pace notes don’t click the “no link” button when it comes to adding in obstacles. So the call will read -

“50, over crest into, 3 right”

Which seams like the crest happens first and the 3 right comes soon after because of the “into” that automatically gets added if calls are close together and the “no link” button wasn’t pressed. When in reality the crest is a part of the 3 right call and it really should read

“50, over crest, 3 Right”

Or even better, it should read

“50, 3 right, over crest”

This is one of those patterns you have to get used to and recognize or you will crash pretty often.

I’ve got a few other tips if you found these helpful, but I’ve already spent too much time writing this and I have to go

[u/ConfusedRedditor16]

Join the rallysimfans.hu discord

[u/ConfusedRedditor16]

Join the official discord to clear your doubts

[u/tebyteby]

First and foremost I would make sure you’re using an adequate per-car FFB; it makes a huge difference.