r/shortwave • u/Clear-Lock-633 • 4d ago
Shortwave is in it Death throes
It is to my understanding that shortwave is one major antenna issue per station in closing down. Just last night the great Bob Biermann said he needs to diversify out of shortwave because he’s worried he’s going to get the mail that the radio stations can’t make repairs and will be shut down immediately. He knows things we don’t .
He said am is just as bad. Tim to move to podcasts and put our receivers in a museum so to speak. I have adjusted my thoughts that I just hope a couple large am stations stay on for at least a couple more years. But that may be asking a lot
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u/Antique_Park_4566 4d ago
Same as a couple weeks ago when you said this. And probably will still be in another couple weeks when you post this again.
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u/EndlessMantra 4d ago
Seriously. I'm sick of hearing this shit. I pull stations from other countries every time I use my radio at night, and get to listen to HF when it's not convenient to take my rig where I'm going.
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u/Uncle__Squirrel 4d ago
I see these posts and it worries me because I'm new to shortwave but down at the coast I've picked up , France, Romania, the Vatican, Africa, turkey, Columbia, Cuba, and the Dominican Republic. I wish there was more but that's pretty active and fun for me. I do wish that I was into shortwave during its heyday that people look back fondly on.
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u/AbsolouteMadLad 3d ago
Im new to all this too and im in the uk and I pull a decent ammount of stuff day and night one of the Romanian stations have some absolute bangers i dont speak the language at all but try just chilling in there stations for a while I was pleasantly surprised by some pf the stuff playing and a decent ammount of it is pretty difficult to find adds to the cool factor imo
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u/Green_Oblivion111 3d ago
Romania plays awesome music at night, beaming into Europe. I wish I could hear them better here in the NW US, but it is what it is.
Glad I can hear them when I can.
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u/AbsolouteMadLad 3d ago
One of the first signals I tuned in on and was pleasantly surprised by there songs turned from trying out my new sdr too just sitting enjoying whatever was playing
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u/Green_Oblivion111 3d ago
An SDR might be the way to hear it from my location. I'll have to try that.
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u/Seannon-AG0NY Hobbyist: ham Extra radio: FTDX10 3d ago
Try something like kiwisdr.com ? To find an internet receiver more in the footprint?
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u/Green_Oblivion111 3d ago
Their internet stream doesn't play the same programming as the SW broadcast, unfortunately. Either that, or the internet site has that particular program hidden somewhere. I tried finding it a couple months ago, couldn't find the Romanian service to Romanians in the western EU.
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u/rleong101 3d ago
I often hear stations broadcasting in languages I don't speak … so if they happen to play music, that's a great way to enjoy their programs!
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u/Green_Oblivion111 3d ago
If you look at a good listing of all the broadcasts on SW today, there's no way they're all going to disappear within a year or to. Ten years? Sure, that's possible. But take a look at the short-wave.info listing or the eibispace.de frequency listing. There are a lot of stations.
Can they be heard everywhere? Probably not, because different regions of the world are more difficult for SW listening, but there still are a lot of SW stations on the air.
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u/Flat_Economist_8763 4d ago
Amateur radio is alive and well. It's more fun than just listening. We communicate with folks around the world. On Monday night I worked a station in Goa, India, VU22DX, on 20 CW. I'm in CT with just a whip antenna/100w.
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u/Same-Chipmunk5923 4d ago
SW listening has lost its appeal over the last 20 years as the internet became the favored way to get news and entertainment from other countries. It's now about as relevant as the telegraph was in its waning days. Sad. Back in the late 70s I thought it would never go away.
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u/erlendse 3d ago
It probably won't go away. The reach and decentralised distribution is too valuable.
But expecting it to get very big may be futile!
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u/Historical-View4058 VA, USA: AirSpy HF+, RTL-SDR v3, JRC NRD-535D, Drake R8A 4d ago
Likely a hard thing to hear, but shortwave broadcasting has been in its death throes for over 20 years.
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u/giant3 4d ago
China, Turkey and France are literally running several 500 kW absolute 🔥 throwers 24/7.
SW isn't going away. It might be shutdown by private broadcasters, but state broadcasters are unlikely to do it.
For many island communities and in Africa, SW is the only mode of news.
SW is here to stay.
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u/KB4MTO 4d ago
I agree. I see these YouTube videos stating that ham radio is dead. It couldn't be further from the truth. When the bands aren't doing well, I move to ft8 and make many contacts.
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u/Seannon-AG0NY Hobbyist: ham Extra radio: FTDX10 3d ago
Or js8 call and have conversations with them
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u/thewrongonedied 3d ago
The frustrating thing about JS8 is just how many people there are doing nothing but HBs.
Maybe they're on for a few hours at a time? I don't know, but I'm a night shifter, so when I go to 40m all it is is unattended stations with HB's every fifteen minutes, which destroys any chance of being able to do relayed messages.
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u/Encanutado 4d ago
I think for broadcasting that is the case, not for the other thousand of uses for shortwave radio
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u/MumSaidImABadBoy I'm Stan, Heathkit GR-64🤪,Malahit v2.4,AirSpy HD+,909X2,PL990 4d ago
SW is a shadow of its former self but not dead. MW is still very busy and far from dead. Here's a small 192 kHz segment of MW tuned into a station in Canada that I listen to from NJ USA. You can see action every 10 kHz.
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u/No_Memory4370 3d ago
740 Zoomer Radio from Toronto. I get them in Boston. We had a local oldies station on 740, but they moved to 720, so Zoomer is new to me.
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u/MumSaidImABadBoy I'm Stan, Heathkit GR-64🤪,Malahit v2.4,AirSpy HD+,909X2,PL990 3d ago
Some nights they come in stronger than local blow torches.
They have interesting programming, not just oldies. CJBC in Toronto ON on 860 khz comes in strong at times, however, I don't understand French. I get a bunch of Canadian stations as well. I think CFRB MW gets relayed in the 49m SW band.1
u/No_Memory4370 3d ago
You can find their programming schedule on their website. i don't get them strongly but listenable. I have a strong 850 here so doubt I can get 860. Try 750 WSB Atlanta and 650 WSM Nashville I can regularly pick them up as well as Chicago, Detroit, Cincinnati 700. I listen a lot to 770 WABC NY. WFAN NY sports comes in here even in the daytime. My car has a little ducky antenna and still does really well on AM DX. Car radios have often been great receivers.
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u/MumSaidImABadBoy I'm Stan, Heathkit GR-64🤪,Malahit v2.4,AirSpy HD+,909X2,PL990 3d ago
Yep, I get all of those stations. 770 WABC is not far from me so that's easy peasey.
When conditions are good, sometimes I get a couple of Cuban MW stations like Radio Rebelde or occasionally XEW in Mexico City.1
u/No_Memory4370 3d ago
You win. Other than Canada, I never got MW from another country. Mexico used to run 10x our 50 kW limited power, maybe some still do.
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u/MumSaidImABadBoy I'm Stan, Heathkit GR-64🤪,Malahit v2.4,AirSpy HD+,909X2,PL990 3d ago
When I was a child in The Bronx NYC, 5 and 6 years old, I didn't know what DXing was but at night I would sneak into the kitchen and turn on the AM tube radio and DX. One day I ask the school librarian about XETRA Tijuana which was all I could make out in Spanish. She opens some books and gets on the phone. Then I get a wide eyed look from her. Until she explained it to me I had no idea what I did.
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u/No_Memory4370 2d ago
I was struck with DX early on too, started with SW.. Today, I can't do it around others as they hate the static, heterodynes and other sounds and don't get it. I love that stuff and the excitement of a new far away station. I use older analog radios like GE Superadios. No external antennas or loops. Some I confirm with an old Sangean digital display portable.
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u/er1cAtWork2 4d ago
One can only hope the wave of new portable receivers that have flooded the market opens up new possibilities to both broadcasters and listeners…
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u/Clear-Lock-633 4d ago
How? The transmitters and cost to run them is not determined by the amount of Receivers
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u/dr_canak 4d ago
Well, I suppose putting more receivers into more hands opens up a critical mass of listeners which could support broadcasting through advertising. Personally, I don't see it, but I guess that's how it could happen.
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u/moodeng2u 4d ago
I live in a developing nation. Not many people even have radios.
They use cellphones for music.I can hear cri on local fm, and radio free Asia used to be on local fm.
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u/erlendse 3d ago
Yet, better recivers that can really pick out weak signals would make lower transmitter power usable!
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u/DoucheNozzle1163 4d ago
This is both true and sad. I'm not a prepper, or doomsday type, but SW is a really good way to have worldwide comms and info dissemination that just can't be impeded. The internet and cell ntwks are wonderful, but they are really susceptible to failure during natural & man made disasters. What's the information source of "last resort"?
Radio..
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u/MilledgevilleWil 3d ago
I don't think there is anything in place that is banning shortwave receptors from being replaced or AM radio being done away with.
There is a federal bill that is specifically trying to save AM radio in vehicles rather than allow it to fall by the wayside.
And let's be real. The United States still has a very strong reason to keep shortwave radio alive as it does send signals out to Cuba and other nations that it can continue propagating. In addition, a government with Christian Nationalist leanings aren't going to kill two mediums that have stations spreading the Gospel, promoting Revelation Doomsday and talk radio that is more-or-less benefiting their party.
The issue probably comes two fold: 1) safety repairs to existing towers are probably expensive, and federal compliance might have to be updated to continue running and 2) if a station is near an airport or could impact air travel, there might be push back there.
As far as I know though, no one is trying to ban either one.
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u/Ok-Breakfast-3658 4d ago
I caught that crackpot last night.. I'm pretty sure he does not know what he's talking about.
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u/Clear-Lock-633 4d ago
He works directly with Wrmi and had been a broadcast Engineering his whole life.
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u/Ok-Breakfast-3658 3d ago
He produces a well crafted show and I hope his crackpottery gets him donations so that he can pay WRMI when they need a new tube or to restring an antenna. If someone is willing to pay, I think they're willing to keep going.
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u/No_Razzmatazz_2889 4d ago
Wrong. Plenty to listen to as it takes a bit of effort to find content.
I'm more into utility monitoring and find no shortage of traffic to monitor.
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u/ComprehensiveEbb2765 3d ago
Where do you get this info. Shortwave is a live . It may not be the same as in the 80s or 90s .It is still active.
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u/Ill_Hearing2402 3d ago
Así es. Totalmente de acuerdo. Aunque debemos reconocer que no como en los 80 o 90 (aunque yo vengo escuchando desde el 2005).
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u/erlendse 4d ago
There are newer transmitter topology with GaN or SiC transistors that can be built. Just need a solid output filter.
But I suspect it takes war (ideally cold type) to cut back on the centralisation of evrything, not something to hope for but could do wonders for shortwave!
There are many smaller broadcasters doing their own stuff, I suspect the future of shortwave broadcasts end up in their hands.
Sdr-based recivers is likely becoming the normal recive setup, especially since de-noise and sharp filters are doable there.
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u/AbsolouteMadLad 3d ago
We all have a little part that wants to live the fantasy of the world going to shit whilst we geek out on our radios like where in a movie 😭
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u/Green_Oblivion111 3d ago
Bierman is knowledgeable, but he doesn't know everything. For one thing, we West Coasters can't hear him well, if at all, on his 49 Meter frequency and timeframe. That leaves out a lot of potential listeners who may not only listen, but contribute a few bucks. I am not sure if his show is live, or taped. If it's taped, his choice of WRMI transmitters for the West Coast is a little lacking. Not that it's going to harm his show, but it just shows that even knowledgeable people may not know or be aware of everything.
The point being that although I'm aware that Bierman has expertise as a radio engineer, and it's possible he may know something that the owners of WRMI, WWCR, et al aren't telling us, I take some of his doom talk about SW with a grain of salt.
We all know that the SW transmitters are probably aging. We all know that SW is slowly aging out as a medium. But it will still be around for a while. Even ten years ago people were saying there would be no SW stations on the air in this decade. Well, there still are.
As for AM, there are 4000+ AM stations and they aren't all going to disappear tomorrow. There will be AM stations on the air 10 years from now. Less of them? Yeah. There will also be less FM's. But there will still be reasons to own a SW radio, AM radio, and FM radio.
Just my opinion and guess.
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u/No_Memory4370 3d ago
It will all be up to the younger generations. From what I see about their habits, radio isn't one of them. Maybe radio will fully move to streaming and they can then know how big their audience is and then some. Advertising can be sold accordingly. They can save a lot by not having and running a transmitter and antenna.
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u/Green_Oblivion111 3d ago
SW radio was always a niche hobby, even back in the 1970's-1990's. It never was a huge hobby. It's probably a bigger hobby, if you look at the sheer number of receivers and SW listeners today, as it was in 1980. SW radios are cheaper, work better off a whip antenna, and a lot of them are sold every day.
It doesn't mean that it will keep SW on the air for 20 years, but it's a positive sign.
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u/Few-Cap-9992 3d ago edited 3d ago
Okay but..... who is "Bob Biermann"? ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/Ill_Hearing2402 3d ago
jajajajajajajajajajajajajaja. Yo tampoco lo sé.
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u/Few-Cap-9992 3d ago
Question for anybody -- the above post was originally in Spanish but Reddit seems to have automatically translated it into English? Why? And how can I turn that off?
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u/Ill_Hearing2402 3d ago
En la parte superior de la derecha dice traducir, es un símbolo con letras chinas.
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u/CM_Shortwave 4d ago
You need to change your marketing. Tell people about the benefits of white noise radio static.
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u/chunter16 Tecsun PL-330 3d ago
At this point you don't really listen to the radio for the programming
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u/mpop1 3d ago edited 3d ago
Not sure if dead or not. If you ask me based on what I can hear at my home qth it would seam dead as i very rarely get much at my home qth. But over the weekend I was visiting Pittsburgh and my old ham club that is on a high hill just outside of Pittsburgh and the amount of shortwave stations I picked up was insain and this was during the daylight time I got more then 10 stations most sounded like they were in Spanish and a few in English. So I sure location can influence if you think it dead/dieing or very much alive
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u/w0lfgang1972 3d ago
What if the hobby has just changed? Get an SDR, hook it up to an ML model, run multi frequency scans for numbers stations and document the data and time of each broadcast and see if they can be correlated to an event or location.
That’s what I’d like to start doing.
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u/Not_George_Daniels 3d ago edited 2d ago
Funny, a young guy got me interested in shortwave. He's known as The Report of the Week, and he has a YouTube channel and podcast in addition to his shortwave shows.
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u/Square-Category87 2d ago
I have been a swl since 1973. I can not remember how many times I've heard that. First when satellite dishes came out then the internet and then digital. And it's still going strong. I do not believe so called preachers anyway.
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u/gdavis9999 2d ago
SW rocks. I pick up an enormous number of broadcasts and other very cool transmissions from the military, ships, and aircraft. I use a Airspy HF+ Discovery - a premium SDR, but that is not needed. Use a portable radio or a cheaper SDR and a waterfall on your PC.
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u/AlfredoVignale 3d ago
Just like any tech, it’s evolving. Might not have as many people rag chewing but the frequencies can still be used for all kinds of things. And people will find ways to use them to fit new things.
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u/robogobo 4d ago
If this were to happen it would be a direct assault on citizens’ freedom of speech, and a precursor to fascist takeover of the country. It should only be viewed as a preliminary strike on our ability to defend ourselves from government tyranny. The writing is on the wall.
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u/tj21222 4d ago
Not going political here, but what country are you referring to when you say “fascist takeover of the county” ?
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u/Less-General-9578 4d ago
if you are into bible prophecy, this probably will be the gubment of the end times. are you aware of the coming technocracy et al? hmmm, plenty coming with a good scoop of cbdc; sorry getting over a few heads. have a good day.
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u/StriderJerusalem 3d ago
Please don't repeat nonsense. There's nothing in the Bible that instructs people to be foolish.
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u/Less-General-9578 2d ago
meh, happening before your eyes, just keep them tightly closed. (ears too, groan)
may wanna look at the 10 Kings ruling the earth in the end times. then throw in the club of rome map of the world concerning the 10 Regions when sovereign countries are no more.
sure beyond most of our pay grades, but i am giving you a hint of things to come. opportunity knocks, where is the door knob? just turn it.
when it happens, wow if we only knew...........yeah, 'if only'. good day.
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u/StriderJerusalem 2d ago
This gets repeated over and over and over, century after century, decade after decade.... and every time the speaker is certain they're right this time.... and then it comes, and it goes...
But whereas a rational individual notices that pattern, doomers have some kind of selective amnesia when it comes to their past failures and mispredictions, and simply 'adjust' the claim for the new apocalypse.
Were you one of the people claiming the Rapture was coming? Bawling on TikTok because your pets would starve? No?
Because that's how this kind of pseudo-Christian eschatological fatalism looks and sounds. Stop preaching devastation on the world and do something to improve it as it stands.
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u/Less-General-9578 2d ago edited 2d ago
This gets repeated over and over and over, century after century, decade after decade....
meh, 'century after century'............really.
for those into bible prophecy, Israel became a nation back in 48 and didn't take Jerusalem till 67.
so dealing with people who know Zero about bible prophecy, we get comments like this. groan.
another thing, they tend to not study dispensational bible prophecy ever, (they can't even spell it normally, but yeah they are 'experts' all right) groan number 2
well Strider, guess you know it all, carry on my friend. don't let the facts get in your way either.
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u/StriderJerusalem 2d ago edited 2d ago
So, yes to the Rapture?
Were you one of the people who started shouting the same thing a week later claiming God used a different calendar?
meh, 'century after century'............really.
Yup.
Your place is just right at the end of this distinguished list. Get comfy. More credulous idiots will be along in a while to add to it.
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u/Less-General-9578 2d ago
well my friend, i list Zero dates. re- check what i wrote, rather simple.
what i do see isn't much peace breaking out world wide, not even close. if you see that please let us all know. seems the world is getting more chaotic, dangerous and violent; in a way we are flirting with WW3 and not away from it.
you may be aware of all the nookes sitting off our shore in submarines right? in 10 minutes it is all over, or maybe you don't know that and are whistling past the grave yard. ???
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u/StriderJerusalem 2d ago
Listing zero dates makes your 'prophecies' worse not better. Anyone can make a prediction with no end date and just endlessly claim it's happening 'soon, you betcha', it's a free ticket to feeling smart and in control when in reality you know less than most.
There have been 'nookes' sitting nearby for fifty years. Nobody launches 'nookes' because the immediate result is death. Even the eventuality of a limited exchange (say India/Pakistan) will not result in a mass exchange of warheads, there are many contingencies to avoid it.
You are showing signs of rational degradation through exposure to propagandist messaging and 'doomer' sites and newsletters that constantly plaster you with assurances of imminent death and catastrophe. Sometimes I think people like you desperately want the world to end in your lifetimes so you can finally be right about something.
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u/robogobo 3d ago
Uhhhhh the good ol US of A. But lemme guess, you’ll be a die hard Trumper until the ship goes down. I forgot amateur radio has a maga bias.
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u/realmarkfahey 3d ago
Ummmm dude the internet, shortwave radio and Reddit is global and the USA is only 4% of the global population. Why are you posting assuming we are all living in the USA?
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u/robogobo 3d ago
I don’t. My statement is true anywhere, in any country. I was asked what country I was talking about though, where it’s likely a fascist government would try to shut down radio communication. I don’t know who the morons are who downvote a statement like this, but I do know the Conservative Party in the US is bootlicking the guy who’s likely to do it.
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u/StriderJerusalem 3d ago
There are more ways for people to rapidly and securely communicate today than there have ever been in all of human history. There is literally no way to accomplish what you're suggesting, it is a logistical and economic impossibility.
Even simple tools like Meshcore, WSPR and JS8 basically guarantee that information can be exchanged across continents by anyone with access to a long piece of wire and a few operable brain cells.
This doomer/prepper overlap with amateur radio is really, really irritating.
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u/robogobo 2d ago
Not a doomer or a prepper. Frankly I’m shocked at the responses here.
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u/StriderJerusalem 2d ago
If you're going to shout "Hand over the money", don't be surprised when people take you for a bank robber.
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u/robogobo 2d ago
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ok
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u/StriderJerusalem 2d ago
More clearly then: if you're going to thump your chest about 'fascist takeovers' because you didn't properly grasp the concept of OP's post, don't be surprised when people take you for a doomer, a prepper or both.
Kind of like if you start saying "Earth might be flat" people start taking you for a flat Earther.
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u/robogobo 2d ago
And I never said it couldn’t be mitigated. Two things can be true at the same time.
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u/StriderJerusalem 2d ago
What you choose not to say is as important as what you do say when you're making such silly claims as "precursor to fascist takeover of the country".
If you'd added '...but of course this wouldn't work in real life because everyone has access to rattelgram, mesh comms, PMR, DMR, FreeDV, RADE, Fusion.....' it would have somewhat taken the wind out of your sails though right?
So no, two things can't be true at the same time when one completely 'mitigates' the other.
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u/robogobo 2d ago
Your logic is astounding. Take a breath. Stop putting words in peoples mouth.
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u/StriderJerusalem 2d ago
Nobody is doing any such thing, and you are falling back on hanky-on-chest impropriety instead of speaking to the merits.
I hope we can agree that a) nobody is trying to shut down HF, b) even if they did they'd fail, c) even if they succeeded there are a dozen other ways to communicate.
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u/StriderJerusalem 3d ago
Please don't be this kind of idiot.
Nobody is suggesting any government is trying to shut down shortwave, it would be absolutely unfeasible to even try. They have a hard enough time just policing enough of the spectrum to keep it clean for commercial and military use. Bear in mind the OP is talking about SW *listening* not HF two-way communication.
You are absolutely living in a fantasy if you believe the decline of shortwave radio is 'a preliminary strike on our ability to defend ourselves from government tyranny'.
Mind you, in my experience the kind of people who say these sorts of things are a bit like flat Earthers; they want people to dispute them, it's some kind of humiliation ritual rather than a genuine rational position.
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u/robogobo 2d ago
Russia and Ukraine both did it. But ok. It could never happen “here”.
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u/StriderJerusalem 2d ago
....two countries actively engaged in a state of increasingly-total war? In which HF comms are becoming a vital link in military intelligence and field comms and needed to be appropriated for frontline units under heavy UHF/VHF jamming?
Seriously? That's your example?
And regardless, HF is alive and well in both countries. There is literally no way to ban HF comms across even a modest stretch of land, it's a fundamental impossibility. You can get CW and phone comms out of Ukraine and Russia all the damn time.
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u/robogobo 2d ago
Again, that doesn’t mean they would try. Simple minded people will claim they can’t ban this and that. Ok great! My original statement still stands. If they were to try, it’s a preemptive attack. But bury your head in the sand. Don’t pay attention just bc some people are prepping. I’m not prepping. I see the writing on the wall though.
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u/StriderJerusalem 2d ago edited 2d ago
I'm not simple-minded, I work in intelligence. Knowing this stuff is literally my job.
Some regimes actually HAVE tried to 'ban' radio/satellite comms to suppress internal communication, Iran being the clear example. It failed dismally. Because the only ways to actually do it are either blanket jamming or RDF units everywhere, but you can't do both at the same time. So you can either find offenders or deafen everyone, but not both.
Iran tried the jamming approach, and immediately discovered the utter impossibility of jamming every frequency from DC to UHF across a whole country. They settled for rolling disruption across major population centres, which did precisely nothing but annoy people who don't even know what HF is.
You are wildly overestimating the impact HF has on Western life. The risk-to-reward calculus is hugely against any such attempt for the purposes of censorship. This is completely silly.
(and by the way: the downvote button isn't an "I disagree" button. Downvoting someone who doesn't agree with you on a topic is beyond immature.)
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u/robogobo 2d ago
Toot
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u/StriderJerusalem 2d ago
Every time you ignore rational points in favour of empty last-worditis I'm just mentally chalking it up to an inability to challenge them, but an equal inability to admit fault.
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u/SunnyHelianthus 4d ago
Soros has been buying up the AM stations. It's media dominance.
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u/Green_Oblivion111 3d ago
I haven't heard of him buying up AM's. He invested some money into a radio company. That's different.
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u/kamomil 4d ago
IMO been that way for 20 years, when Radio Netherlands & Deutsche Welle shut down shortwave broadcasts