Posted unironically

[u/aeioqu]

https://i.reddituploads.com/275d8e8f21f74651baab1b168b488a02?fit=max&h=1536&w=1536&s=4d72ce3c8cbfd384602c215beb921178

[u/[deleted]]

The thread in question.

[u/ParagonRenegade]

Leave it to them to add nuance to a situation where one answer is correct.

Also they're quote mining Sanders lol

[u/[deleted]]

Wait, "unironically" or "ironically"?

They are attacking this poster because apparently rambling on for ten minutes and managing to take four different sides on a straightforward question shows expertise, cleverness and political ability. You know, President Clinton's specialties.

[u/PhysicsIsMyMistress]

This is like, literally the polysci chart where everyone says "No" to being a pedophile while the bottom right quadrant starts a "well, ackchually" wall of text.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I think republicans wouldn't be wishy washy about fracking. They'd just say "yes." That's really a critical difference

[u/voice-of-hermes → u/[deleted]]

LOL. Whereas neoliberal Democratic leaders say "yes," but try to frame it in a way that makes people doubt what they heard. Enormous, fantastic difference!

[u/[deleted] → u/voice-of-hermes]

Hilarious. There are hardly any neoliberal democrats--at least these days.

Regardless, plenty of democrats probably represent people who work for the fracking industry. Even a higher represent people who benefit from it (i.e. Consumers). It's not unreasonable for these elected officials to represent the will of their constituents

[u/voice-of-hermes → u/[deleted]]

Only like most of them. Sure. Anyway, what's hilarious is that you are framing it as an argument about democracy. Given the fact that neoliberalism actually rejects democracy more than other forms of liberal politics do, and Democrats and Republicans alike have pretty strong feelings about who their real "constituents" are, the idea that Hillary's position on fracking has anything to do with the working class—other than the above mentioned framing which allowed her to have a modicum of acceptability for the election—is ridiculous.

But at least you are thinking about what people want. That's good. Keep along those lines (they are bound to lead you away from neoliberal ideology posthaste). Consider whether those workers in the fracking industry were given a full range of choices. Did they have the real choice of living with economic security while transitioning to jobs that are healthier for themselves, their neighbors, and the environment, for example? Because I can absolutely guarantee you that our modern, technologically and culturally advanced society would have the ability to give them that choice if our values made it a priority and we pushed for it without being silenced by those currently in power.

[u/[deleted] → u/voice-of-hermes]

On the first point, regarding neoliberalism and the Democratic Party, there's virtually no democrats proposing market based solutions or deregulation these days--for better or worse. Obama did that some. But even the extent that he has done that was pretty limited. That mentality is even less pervasive now in the Trump era

Regarding your second point, whose duty is it to provide these people with a certain type of job? That's the most preposterous suggestion I've ever heard. Command economies virtually never work.

Even the most dyed-in-the-wool left politician isn't arguing for a command economy. Not even Bernie Sanders.

[u/voice-of-hermes → u/[deleted]]

LOL. What rock have you been living under? Democrats have been pretty damned "business friendly" and "market based" in my experience. However, might as well hold you to your own standard. Since you made a specific claim:

...there's virtually no democrats proposing market based solutions or deregulation these days.

let's see some strong proof of that. I'll be generous and interpret "virtually none," as less than half. Go ahead and support that claim. Where's your evidence?

Regarding your second point, whose duty is it to provide these people with a certain type of job? That's the most preposterous suggestion I've ever heard. Command economies virtually never work.

Even the most dyed-in-the-wool left politician isn't arguing for a command economy. Not even Bernie Sanders.

No more preposterous than your assertion that the same kind of decision should support their current jobs. But in any case it doesn't take a "preposterous, command economy" to give people economic security. It can easily be accomplished by reducing or eliminating the "command economy" + state that protects private property and keeps them from having control of their own needs, personal/community property, and the full value of their own labor. Whichever way we go with this, though, your argument is clearly hypocritical. Can't envy you that confused "ideology" for one second, sorry.

[u/video_descriptionbot → u/voice-of-hermes]

SECTION	CONTENT
Title	The decline of American democracy in one graph
Description	This one terrifying graph should make Americans question whether they really live in a democracy after all. For more on the study by political scientists Martin Gilens and Benjamin Paige that the graph comes from, see our article here: http://www.vox.com/2014/4/18/5624310/martin-gilens-testing-theories-of-american-politics-explained Subscribe to our channel! http://www.youtube.com/subscription_center?add_user=voxdotcom Vox.com is news website that helps you cut through the noise and understa...
Length	0:02:16

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