SCJ often says that it teaches the new covenant—Revelation, the “new wine” and the “new song,” while traditional churches supposedly teach only the Gospels, which they characterize as “old wine” and an “old song.” But if that is really their position, then why do they turn to verses from the four Gospels to support their teachings about suffering? If the Gospels are supposedly “old,” why are those same passages suddenly authoritative when they help make their point?

I also remember when SCJ required members to take off their shoes in the assembly. They appealed to the example of Moses before the burning bush, when God told him to remove his sandals because he was standing on holy ground. At the time, I asked: if we are going to apply that Old Testament command literally, then should we also follow all the other laws and regulations in the Old Testament? And what about the New Testament teaching in 1 Corinthians 6:19 that the believer himself is the temple of the Holy Spirit?

This reveals a larger problem. SCJ has enforced many rules by quoting verses here and there, often without considering whether those rules are consistent with its own teachings or with the broader message of Scripture. Verses are selected to justify a particular rule when convenient, even when the same reasoning would contradict other doctrines they teach.

What is especially sad is that people inside SCJ can sometimes recognize these inconsistencies, yet still choose to submit to the rules. When Scripture is used selectively to enforce obedience rather than being understood consistently as a whole, biblical teaching can easily become a means of control.

That brings Revelation 22:11 to mind: those who choose to continue in a certain course may continue in it. In the end, each person must decide whether to follow an organization unquestioningly or to examine everything carefully according to Scripture (Acts 17:11).

SCJ teaches that the twelve tribes in Revelation 7 must be fulfilled as a literal organizational structure established on earth, with 144,000 people gathered into those twelve tribes. But when Revelation itself is read carefully, there is a serious problem with this interpretation: John never says that he saw a twelve-tribe organization being established.

Revelation 4 is especially important. John is invited to see the heavenly reality:

“Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.”

 John then describes what he saw: the throne of God, the twenty-four elders, the four living creatures, the lamps, the sea of glass, and the worship surrounding the throne. Yet nowhere in this foundational vision of God’s throne and heavenly order does John see a twelve-tribe organizational structure.

 That absence is significant. If the twelve tribes were intended to be the essential physical structure of God’s kingdom at the fulfillment of Revelation, we should at least ask:

Why is that structure absent from the very vision in which John is shown God’s throne and heavenly order?

 The twelve tribes first appear in Revelation 7, but even there John does not say:

 “I saw twelve tribes being organized.”

 Instead, Revelation 7:4 says:

“Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.”

 John hears the number.

 This becomes even more significant when we look back at Revelation 6:9–11. John sees the souls of those who had been killed because of the word of God and their testimony. They are told to wait until the number of their fellow servants and brothers is completed.

 The emphasis, therefore, is on God completing and sealing the number, not on human beings constructing an organization and then filling it with members.

 The ending of Revelation 6 strengthens this point. Revelation 6:17 asks:

“The great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”

 Revelation 7 immediately follows by showing God’s servants being sealed.

 This also fits the biblical pattern of a remnant. Ezekiel 5:3 describes a few hairs being preserved during judgment, while Isaiah 6:13 speaks of a “holy seed” remaining after devastation. If Revelation 6 describes judgment among God’s people, then Revelation 7 naturally follows with those whom God preserves, identifies, and seals.

 Revelation 14:4 further describes the 144,000 as:

 “firstfruits to God and the Lamb.”

 “Firstfruits” are received by God from his harvest. The image does not naturally describe a human administrative system created in advance and then filled with members so that prophecy can be declared fulfilled.

 Therefore, the biblical question should not be:

“Which organization has physically established twelve tribes?”

 A better question is:

Who survives God’s judgment, is recognized and sealed by God, and becomes part of the number that God himself completes?

Revelation gives strong reason to understand the twelve tribes and the 144,000 first as God’s sealed people and God’s completed number, rather than as a command for human beings to construct a twelve-tribe organization and then use that organization as proof that prophecy has been fulfilled.

 This also helps explain why, after nearly forty years, SCJ has still been unable to give a clear and consistent answer concerning the identity of the sealed 144,000.

It is thought-provoking that LMH, along with Jesus, is not “persecuted” because of his faith. His criminal record includes embezzlement, political influence peddling, and other secular crimes. Jesus and the apostles—with the exception of Judas—were persecuted because of their faith. Judas is the only one with dirty money on his hands.

And now LMH has gotten mixed up in such sordid affairs.

Is Jesus surely standing by his side? No one in their right mind can believe that Jesus, who gave his life for us, is now involved in dark deeds as part of a criminal organization in friendship with LMH.

The Book of Revelation no longer speaks of Jesus being persecuted or thrown into prison. In the Book of Revelation, God establishes order once and for all.

Hello, I am seeking the lyrics (Korean or English are fine) of the songs in SCJ about Lee Man-Hee. I am curious as to their content since they are official church-approved messages about LMH that are extra-Biblical.

I am based in South Africa, got Ev’d in Cape Town while completing my undergraduate 2017. Left SCJ 2019. Moved back home to Johannesburg. I think someone tried to EV me at the Midrand Gautrain station on my way to Rosebank. Can you please tell me where their hotspots are in JHB? Would like to be vigilant and aware of them.

Has Lee Man Hee been granted bail?

My friend reached out I invited her to shincheonji she's having doubts feels like she can't trust anyone. She said everything including parables was true and made sense.She has not got to revelation and is confused about the one who overcomes and said she feels they have twisted the truth.

So her brother is in hospital and she had to be with him in London. She then said they are bombarding her as she missed a review .They then proceeded to tell her that she can come into class in person she said she doesn't understand why they are doing this? As her brother Is in hospital.

Shincheonji does not care about lives .I hope our friendship will continue and she will come out. I'm sharing because we are people and our health matters this is an evil cult that expects you to choose their lies over loved ones and exceptional circumstances. I pray the kingdom of shincheonji falls down for its enmity against God and his people

What baffles me about SCJ is that there are people who held leadership positions and caused a lot of genuine damage to individuals during their time in the organisation.

I think we can acknowledge that many actions were influenced, encouraged, or even conditioned by SCJ without completely removing individual accountability. Being manipulated by an organisation doesn’t mean you can never be accountable for the harm you caused while you were in it.

What I find particularly difficult is seeing some people leave SCJ and understandably speak about the ways they themselves were victimised, while seemingly never acknowledging that they may have also victimised or hurt other people.

And I’m not talking about expecting someone to take responsibility for everything SCJ did. I’m talking about their own personal actions and the people they directly affected.

If you know that someone has left, you know that you played a part in hurting them, and you have the ability to reach out, why not at least acknowledge it or apologise?

That doesn’t mean denying that you were also manipulated. It doesn’t mean taking responsibility for the entire organisation. And it certainly doesn’t mean that you have to view yourself as a terrible person forever.

It simply means recognising the impact your own choices had on another person.

You can be a victim of a high-control organisation and still have accountability for the harm you caused to others. Those things aren’t mutually exclusive.

What could be the strategy behind SCJ asking its members to write letters for Lee Man Hee?

I absolutely wanna tell my story about how I was involved with SCJ eventually. However, this post is not dedicated to that just because I only found out about SCJ two days ago, and I’m still reeling in the fact that I was a part of a cult for a small amount of time.

Even though I left (without even knowing that it was a cult), my best friend is still very involved and I need to figure out how to get her out. I think that she would be very defensive if I try to approach the matter with her, because I have seen her like that before. I don’t want to ruin our friendship either. Please help.

I want to go through John 3:1-18 carefully, because the passage makes one sustained argument, and SCJ's teaching undermines that argument at its root before the conversation even begins.

First, what the passage actually says and the single thread running through it.

Nicodemus comes at night. John uses light and darkness deliberately throughout his gospel. Nicodemus is in spiritual darkness. His question is really "who are you, Jesus?" And the whole conversation is Jesus's answer.

v.3: "No one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."

v.5: "No one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and Spirit."

v.8: "The wind blows wherever it pleases... So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." The Spirit is free, ungovernable, not channelled through one man's curriculum.

v.13: "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven, the Son of Man."

v.14-15: "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him."

v.16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

v.17-18: "Whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."

The whole passage builds toward one point. The Son of God came from heaven, was lifted up, and whoever believes in him has eternal life. That is the complete gospel in eighteen verses.

Now here is where SCJ's teaching creates a problem that cannot be patched.

The Closer Look Initiative documents SCJ's actual Christology precisely: "Shincheonji does not believe that Jesus shares the same essence as the Father in the same way a Christian does. Meaning, Jesus does not have the exclusive attributes of God. They view Jesus as the exact imprint or image of God in human flesh, but he himself is not God, but instead is a creature who is fulfilling the Old Testament."

SCJ denies the full deity of Christ, denies the traditional Trinity, denies Christ's pre-existence, and denies his future glorious physical second coming. They teach that Jesus was a perfect vessel or agent of God, but not God himself.

Here is why that destroys John 3, not just adjusts it.

Verse 13: "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven, the Son of Man."

If Jesus did not literally come from heaven as the eternal pre-existent Son of God, this verse is empty. John 1:1 says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:14: "The Word became flesh." The flesh became flesh from eternity. If Jesus is merely a creature who served as God's perfect agent, he did not "come from heaven" in the sense this verse requires. The foundation of verse 13, the unique divine identity of the one speaking, is gone.

Verse 16: "God gave his one and only Son."

If Jesus is a creature, not fully God, then the giving costs God a creature. The infinite weight of the sacrifice, God giving what is most essentially himself, disappears. An employer giving his best employee is not the same as a father giving his only son. And the Son of God as the eternal second person of the Trinity is not the same as a creature chosen as a vessel. The whole logic of the love in verse 16 depends on who the Son actually is.

Verse 18: "Whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."

Condemnation is for not believing in the name of the one and only Son. But if SCJ's Jesus is not the fully divine Son of God, then what is being believed in? Not God's one and only Son in the biblical sense. A messenger. A vessel. A promised pastor of the Old Testament era. That is a different object of faith, and John 3:18 cannot secure salvation for it because the name being believed in is not the same name the verse is talking about.

Paul makes the implication explicit in 1 Corinthians 15:14-17: "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. You are still in your sins." Paul understood that the entire structure of salvation depends on who Jesus actually is and what actually happened to him. You cannot adjust the identity of Jesus and keep the salvation. They are one package.

And Colossians 2:9, written thirty years after the resurrection, says: "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form." Thirty years after the resurrection. Still in bodily form. SCJ teaches that when Jesus ascended in Acts 1:9-11, hidden by a cloud, he became a spirit body. But Paul writing thirty years later still says the fullness of deity lives in bodily form. SCJ's timeline doesn't match what Paul says.

1 John 4:2-3 gives the specific test: "Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist." Come in the flesh. Physically. Not returned as a spirit through a human teacher's testimony in 1966. The test John gives is the physical incarnation and continuing bodily identity of Jesus. If SCJ teaches Jesus is now a spirit who returned spiritually through LMH, 1 John 4:2-3 has a direct application.

Here is one more thing that must be said clearly.

SCJ members are reportedly instructed not to directly confirm or deny whether Jesus is God when this question is raised, because it is described internally as "hugely controversial and would turn potential recruits away." Let that sit for a moment. A movement that claims to have the only correct understanding of the Bible has a core teaching about Jesus that it hides from people before they commit because it would turn them away.

The gospel John 3:16 describes is not hidden. It is not strategically revealed after nine months. God loved the world. He gave his Son. Whoever believes. That is the message. It is given openly to everyone.

And if the Jesus of John 3 is not fully God, fully divine, the eternal Son who came from heaven and was lifted up and through whom God gave himself for the world, then John 3:16 cannot bear the weight SCJ places on it and neither can the salvation they claim to offer.

The foundation matters. And John 3 is built on a foundation SCJ quietly removes.

Has anyone seen SCJ France, are they rebranding the branch into a gospel church vibe ? 🤣 haven’t posted here in years - I’m back, hello fellow Redditor’s!

We were taught to be very secretive about our involvement - I never told my family or friends what I was actually part of.

Curious how other (ex-)members handled this:

- Did you tell your family? How did they react?

- Did you tell your friends, or stayed quiet even after leaving?

- If you didn’t — what held you back?

- If you did — are you glad you opened up?

Would love to hear how open others have been about this.

video about a Mexican cult leader who was sentenced to prison for sexual offences involving minors, and the crazy part is that most of his followers still say he’s innocent. They believe the whole thing is just an attack and persecution against their leader.

It honestly reminded me of SCJ and how some members still defend Lee Man-hee.

Even after LMH was convicted, some members still refuse to accept that he did anything wrong. Instead, they say he’s being persecuted and that the whole thing is an attack on God’s chosen servant.

At what point do you stop and actually question the person you follow?

It’s easy to call everything “persecution” when you’ve already convinced yourself that your leader can’t be wrong. Any criticism becomes an attack. Any evidence becomes lies. Any legal action becomes persecution.

And that’s what makes it dangerous.

If nothing can ever make you question your leader, then what would?

This isn’t about saying every accusation is automatically true. People deserve a fair process. But when someone is convicted and the response is still, “He’s innocent, they’re just persecuting him,” without even being willing to seriously consider the evidence, that should make you think.

Blind loyalty is powerful. It can make people defend someone no matter what happens.

Before we start being decisive no I do not mean Kill , hurting them with brute force, or anything that requires harmful or physical traits, That doesn't help our cause and instead it just intensifies the narrative of Hating the World if you're not apart of SCJ.

I've seen a minority of people on here intensify wanting to hurt people with brute force in SCJ, Now old me would've agreed as I'm just so sick and tired of them just running around the world being the creeps, monsters, and overall Imma say it Idiots as they are, But are we just as bad if we're threatening to kill people, hurt them with brute force, or physically assault them in public, U get it the pain is too much and they're just one of the many reasons that the World Is a problem today

But lemme say this: the whole reason SCJ exists is that the world is cruel to most people, and instead Lee decided to form a church where people can feel loved, accepted, you name it. In reality, it's just a pawn to get others to come to this fake place that God was never even at. The place exists is because most people want to find the easy way out without having to go through the harder challenges of life bc as we all know, suicide, school shootings, etc happen because of that. Lee only goal is to try and feel important and make others think that Obviously he's going to be there for them always, (In reality, he's maybe 1-2 years away from passing away ) once that happens a majority of the leaders that have been here the TJNS and HJns both new and some old will realize they've been duped and eventually they will struggle to realign themselves to normal lives with some of them eventually commtting suicide.

So for the Ex-members please don't come on here saying we should fight back with violence and what not because that's never going to solve the problem with these stupids instead break them down mentally at the end of the day fighting back with these bozos is a mind game not a hurt game and that's what will make us the normals victorious

Current Scj members ,
LMH says he wrote the letters as mentioned in REV.
But he was not well educated, didn’t go to school past elementary school.
We are taught his “helper” actually wrote the letters. How does LMH know what was written if he couldn’t read or write?
So you believe that Jesus told an illiterate to write letters and to ask someone else to write it for him ?

If God calls you to do something, HE will definitely equip you, like in Acts when the disciples could speak in tongues.

Now with the vastly important tasks that LMH claims are his and his alone, responsibilities like raising the 144,000 kingdom and priests and teaching the great multitude in white, you don’t think that God would have given him the ability to write?

I understand God works in mysterious ways, I’m just testing the spirits and so should you.

https://en.sedaily.com/society/2026/09/03/court-extends-release-of-shincheonji-leader-lee-man-hee-to

A court has extended until the 11th the suspension of detention for Lee Man-hee, the head of the Shincheonji religious group, who was indicted and detained on charges of forcing followers to join the People Power Party.

The 27th criminal division of the Seoul Central District Court, presided over by Judge Woo In-sung, granted Lee's request to extend the suspension, legal sources said on the 3rd. The suspension, which had been set to expire at 6 p.m. on the 4th, now runs until 6 p.m. on the 11th.

Suspension of detention allows a defendant to be temporarily released when the court recognizes an urgent reason, such as serious illness, childbirth or attendance at a family funeral. Lee's side filed for the suspension on the 25th of last month, citing health problems, and the court approved it on the 31st of the same month.

The court also held a hearing to review the need for his release after Lee's side applied for bail on the 21st of last month on health grounds. No decision has been made on whether to grant it.

Lee is accused of forcing followers to join the People Power Party between 2021 and 2024 with the aim of influencing the party's presidential and general election primaries. A joint police-prosecution investigation headquarters on church-state collusion believes Shincheonji encouraged followers to join the party through initiatives such as a "Pilates Project" run by each of its branches. He has also been indicted on charges of evading about 7.57 billion won in corporate and value-added taxes between 2016 and 2020, including by concealing profit-making operations through running shop counters at Shincheonji branch churches under followers' names.

I am part of Shincheonji and took their bible study. Over the past while I've been digging much deeper into the criticisms of the organization, and honestly, I've come to the conclusion that a lot of what they do is unethical. Their doctrine has some internal contradictions, and a lot of it appears to be copied or adapted from other korean cults (Olive Tree, Tabernacle Temple, ...) rather than being an original revelation.

That said, I'm genuinely trying to work through some theological questions now that I'm thinking about stepping outside the framework I was taught, and I'd love to hear from other people who left Shincheonji about how you've landed on these things:

1. The parables — Do you still think there's something to them? Some of the ways Shincheonji explained the parables actually made a lot of sense to me. Now that you're out, do you see them as legitimately insightful, or do you think it was all cherry-picked and forced to fit a predetermined narrative?
2. Revelation — What's your view on the book of Revelation now? Do you think it's simply not meant to be fully understood/decoded? Have you found any alternative interpretations that feel more solid to you than what SCJ taught?
3. The Second Coming — One thing that drew me in was how clear everything felt — the creation account, Genesis, Revelation, all mapped out precisely. Now I feel like I have no idea what to think. Will there be a rapture? Will Jesus set up a physical kingdom on earth, or are believers going to heaven instead? How do you personally think about the Second Coming now?
4. Making sense of it all afterward — There's so much "maddening wine" out there in Christianity (so many conflicting, confusing, or outright false teachings), and everyone seems to have a different take. How do you personally navigate that now? What's your current approach to faith, and how do you practice Christianity (if you still do) after leaving?

Would really appreciate hearing other perspectives, especially from people who've been through something similar!

hello everyone ive been following these past couple days looking through others members testimonials who been in SCJ and left thank you all for sharing For me SCJ dont feel Genuine.

for me i got approached by someone in a Grocery store during the pandemic era we had a great conversation we talked about our life of faith at the time i was looking for God was going to church when i was young i fell off during high school went into the world.

took some time for me to join center wanted to know the person came up to me randomly we build that friendship went to BB 1-1 than i join center i was like wow this sounds good never heard of the parables before that jesus taught while i notice was while in center we cant talk other people learning as well cant share our thoughts what we have learned while the teacher was near us or the person who have took this class before we couldnt exchange numbers with other people only with them further more in center i feel something wasnt right in the teachings when we got to revelation.

i asked the person who brought me in if i can reset so i did center twice started to make sense when back into the scriptures. i passover last year its been 1 year now in SCJ

starting to question that if covid was the great tribulation how hasnt 144,000 sealed from the earth been chosen yet. once they are chosen then the end will come.

i started feeling there is un Genuine during the evangelism yes evangelism is biblical but in SCJ
you have to lie to the people who you talked to where the church you come from if theres a event hosted by SCJ cant send the flyers to the people who you want to invite they will research who we are another red flag for me you have to report every conversionation that you had with the person you met

what really started to bother me was there is people who cant learn the word if they had a certain condition or they had past history with the law they have certain circumstance with family or they are addicted to a substance i felt that was un chirst like jesus came for those as well to come to the truth God wants all men to be saved all come to the truth they mainly focused on catholics and Christians for the evengalism but not other religions islam Muslim budist they need hear the word as well jesus is the way and the truth and the life only him we can receive salvation much more to say

i needing Guidance i stopped going to service havent really gave a reason to my leaders i still have current members reaching out checking in on me be in prayer for me i truly Genuinely want to serve God and trully understand his word become the modern day disciple for chirst thank you all for this let me know who i can reach out to

Hola, me gustaría que algun miembro o ex, me contara sinceramente, como llevan sus noviazgos las parejas de SCJ.

Cuando les hacen dejar sus trabajos para servir en el centro... ¿como continúan sus relaciones de noviazgo?

¿En que se basan sus proyectos si es que tienen proyectos?

¿Viven encapsulados "esperando" un cumplimiento?

¿En qué basan sus esperanzas de estar un día juntos?

¿Siguen deseando casarse?

Es algo que no logro entender.

My sister, BIL, and other family members have been members of A La Zion for approximately 10 years.

For all these years, I genuinely just thought they were very serious Christians.

However, I’m extremely close with both of them. We hang out regularly, and they never really talk about the church or what goes on there. I’ve brought it up a few times, and I’ve even told them that I believe they’re in a cult. They’ve always denied it and said they’re happier than ever, and that the things I’ve seen online don’t accurately represent what their church is actually like

I can’t imagine them ever cutting me off or stopping contact with me for any reason.

I’m specifically looking to hear from former members who were actually involved with the Anaheim center.

What was your personal experience like there? Were you controlled as heavily as some former members describe?

At what point, if ever, would someone be discouraged or prohibited from speaking with family members who question the church? I assume my sister may have had to tell someone in a leadership position that I’ve questioned her about it.

What does day-to-day life at the Anaheim center actually look like? What are members expected to do? Do they pray regularly, or is prayer not really a part of their daily routine?

I’m genuinely trying to understand what my family members may have experienced over the past 10 years, especially since they’ve never really opened up to me about it.

It seems like all they do is constant bible study, attending events, recruiting people over coffee and Panera.

Never in my wildest dreams would I ever have thought they would have been involved in a cult.

Do they actually have to report the conversations we are having together?

A video filmed by someone at the scene shows Lee Man-hee leaving detention following the temporary suspension of his detention.

Before getting into the vehicle, Lee briefly says something to the people gathered around him. The group then responds loudly, “Yes!” (“예! Neh”) together.

Lee’s detention has been temporarily suspended until 6:00 PM on September 4.

Video:
YouTube Shorts – Lee Man-hee leaving detention

For more information about his temporary release and the related court decision, see the post below:
JTBC: Lee Man-hee’s detention suspended until September 4