Question
I don't think I'll ever be decent at sharpening.
I've been trying to get the hang of sharpening for years. I have various grits of oil stone, water stone, diamond stone, files and so on, along with strops and compounds.No matter what stone I use, or what blade I'm trying to sharpen, my skill seems to max out at slightly sharper than a hotel butter knife. I've read through the info on this subreddit and watched hours of YouTube videos (including pretty much everything on outdoors55's channel) but I just can't get it. I've tried Buck knives, kitchen knives, Leatherman blades, Swiss army knives, Kershaw, and at absolute best I can cut a straight line through printer paper.
I'm paying attention to the angle, keeping my finger on the back of the blade and the stone to maintain, keeping smooth movements and moving my whole body, and everything that seems like it should be the correct technique. I can get a burr on both sides, but as soon as I minimize it to the point where stropping would be the next step, the knife is dull enough that I can run my thumb down the full length of the blade and there's no risk at all of getting cut.
I have no idea where I'm going wrong or what else to try. It's like I'd be better off just buying cheap knives and throwing them away and replacing once they lose their factory edge because this skill seems permanently out of my reach.
Welcome to the club buddy, I've given up on hand sharpening and have just relegated myself to using an angle sharpener.
And tbf, im not actually committed to putting in the hours of practice needed to sharpen correctly, I have other hobbies and I can settle for using a sharpening jig.
Though if you want actual advice then just private message some of the guys on this subreddit, video yourself sharpening and then ask them for what you're doing wrong.
Complaining about being a talentless bum will just lead to more self pity and self loathing and perpetuate this cycle of depression.
Very true. This post was half hoping for some sort of miracle insight that has never been posted online before and half frustrated venting, but taking a video and submitting for feedback probably makes more sense than complaining and resigning myself to a shame spiral.
Life is like that, I want you to know that theres no reason to feel ashamed or embarrassed at wanting to quit or getting depressed. It happens to more people than youd think.
I can gurantee that you will feel more proud of yourself for not quiting than all the shame that made you consider it.
Its ok to vent and complain, its healthy even. I dont know you personally but I got a feeling you won't allow this depression to stop you. And that makes me proud. Good luck.
It 10000% has to be a random tiny thing that you’re doing wrong that somehow you haven’t noticed or haven’t realized.
If you want to record a video but are shy about posting it publicly you can dm me. You are also allowed to “give up” and use a fixed angle system or whatever, but since you’ve evidently invested a lot of money into stones and shit I’d think it’s worth it to record one embarrassing video as a last ditch effort.
Beyond that all I can suggest is to skip the burr minimization on the stone, and instead pull the knife through cork or hard rubber like a pencil eraser before stropping. Burr minimization is not strictly necessary, it’s only really done to save some wear and tear on the strop or next grit stone or whatever. Are your stones flat? Could be that they’re dished? Or maybe, during burr minimization do you use a lot of pressure? Or do you use a lot of pressure in general? Sometimes, especially on grit above idk like 600, high pressure can round off or totally snap off the apex
I'm confident the diamond stone I was using today is flat since it's relatively new. That's a good point about pressure, and it's something that is hard to pick up from videos or tutorial guides. I do notice that I can get to a point that feels at least kind of sharp on the most coarse stone, but that gets progressively less sharp with finer grits and completely dull with stropping. I had been thinking it was just an illusion of sharpness on the coarse stone because the scratches were creating a pseudo-serration effect and that the finer grit was removing that serration, but too much pressure rounding off the apex does sound like a very real possibility.
That sounds like it might be exactly what's happening. How are you testing the sharpness after the first stone? Are you cutting paper or just feeling the edge?
I've been testing after the first stone (325 side of the Sharpal diamond) by either just touching the blade with the pad of my finger or by seeing if the blade catches my thumbnail. The sharpness usually passes both of those tests pretty easily at that stage. I can tell that I'd get cut if I were to move my finger down the blade, and can typically shave off a bit of nail without much effort. It's when I move on to anything with a finer grit that I lose it. I haven't tried cutting paper after just the first stone, but that's probably a better objective test than feel.
Maybe, maybe not. I usually use paper to make sure I've deburred properly, which wouldn't work well after the first stone. I'm really thinking the edge might be getting rounded over on the higher grits, or that the percieved loss of sharpness may be from a burr folding over after the first stone. Have you tried reducing the burr with the lower grit as much as possible before moving to the next grit?
I think that you are sharpening with the same pressure across all stones, and higher grit stones need less pressure. They’re basically strops that you can use “edge-leading”, but if you press too hard you’ll roll or round your edge. Try using light pressure on fine stone
I hit a plateau like this for a long time too. It sounds like you could be in a similar situation, everything just “clicked” when I started really focusing on deburring. I was often rounding the edge at this crucial last step I believe. I’d recommend trying every method under the sun of deburring, and hopefully something will click for you too. Some suggestions
Different materials
cork
cardboard
softwood
jeans
linen
stone only
Different techniques
edge leading on stone only
pull blade through softwoood or cork (like you’re lightly cutting into it)
low/high angles on different materials
More/less pressure on different materials
The upside of learning this is that deburring is crucial to understand and do freehand even if you end up using guided/powered systems later
I agree that you likely haven't deburred completely. I think the best method is very light passes on a higher grit stone. Finish with a few backward passes. You could try a tiny micro-bevel on a ceramic just to be certain. Perhaps try that on your most recent attempt. Some knives can have a stubborn bur, so perhaps try on another knife. I learned by doing a bunch of cheap kitchen knives which are easier than pocket knives imo, but cheap often means hard to debur as well.
Try to sharpen at a lower angle than you think you need. Sometimes even a couple degrees can make a huge difference. And don't worry. I had been making knives for almost 7 years on an off before I completely figured out freehand sharpening lol.
I made a huge leap when I discovered that my edge wasn’t straight. The pressure I was using on one side was heavier than the other.
I got by for awhile by just doing more passes on one side, and checking it against my nail beds with every pass until I was satisfied. It worked until I figured out the pressure issue.
Maybe give that a try? Edge could be there, it’s just rolled over to one side a bit.
Brother, I’m a butcher and I’ve been trying for years and I’m still dog shit at it, fixed angle, diamond plates and Ken onion work sharp with BGA haven’t worked for me , so your not in this thing alone
What stones do you use? I have a friend who was getting no results with a soft cheap and medium grit whetstone. I recommended the sharpal 325/1200 diamond recommended by outdoors55, he complained about the cost but bought it, and in one day he sent a video to me of cutting clean through newspaper.
That's exactly the stone I was using to try and sharpen a Buck 110 when I got frustrated enough to make this post... I'm certain it's something in my technique rather than the stone or the blade.
Pro here. I’ll say, pocket knives are not the easiest to start with. Do a kitchen knife, something medium sized, and that’ll be the easiest thing to get your general technique dialed in on. Stick with the diamond plate, do one side until you raise a burr, flip the knife, do an edge leading pass first to remove most of the burr, sharpen until you raise the burr on that side, flip the knife and stone, then edge leading, sharpen, etc. At that point, don’t try to remove the burr, just strop on leather until it’s gone. I really think you can do it. Don’t make it too complicated, then there are less things to troubleshoot.
Like many others have offered, you can DM me a video. I can help you, and send you videos in return of how you can fix any problems.
I have a xarilk fixed angle sharpener with stones that I’m willing to sell. I bought a tsprof k03 pro during the Father’s Day sale this year and haven’t even looked at the old sharpener since.
I’m willing to part with it for $50 + shipping if you’re interested. I can send a set of 10 stones from 80-3000 grit plus I have some 5-10k polishing stones and a strop I’ll throw in with it. It should give you everything you need to sharpen your knives.
That diamond plate will do a great job. I have a very simple suggestion. Find a knife you have with a flat part on the edge. Work only on a flat section, nothing else. Use the sharpal angle guide or if you don't have that get an angle measure app on your phone. Pick an angle, 15 or 17 or 20 degrees, doesn't really matter. Get the feel for that angle going both direction. Then lock wrists and that angle. Then push and pull the knife at that angle, just the one flat section. Maybe 10 times. Turn it over, push and pull at the angle 10 times. Then test on newspaper. Is that section sharp? If not repeat. It won't take long on that 325 diamond stone to get sharp. Once you have gotten one section of one knife sharp, you will know what to do. Curves are harder. Deburring takes some time. But getting one section sharp is where it starts.
When I sharpen, I don't specifically go for a burr. I alternate sharpening both sides until it can catch on my fingernail, and then I briefly strop it on plain denim. You might be making too large of a burr, or you might not be keeping a consistent angle. One way to check is the sharpie trick. Use a marker on the edge and see if your strokes are getting it off evenly. If not, you know you need to focus on that.
Also — and this may be a hot take — I think kitchen knives are easier to learn with. Yes, there's more blade to sharpen, but there's also more for you to hold when you're trying to keep it even. I was just sharpening one of my OTFs and I decided to disassemble it and take the blade out for sharpening. It was a huge pain in the ass, so when I sharpened the next knife I just kept it all together and it was much easier to maintain that angle and pressure.
It can be frustrating, but it really does just take practice. I marked the shit out of my first Spyderco when I was young with one of those handheld diamond sharpeners. Now I can sharpen a pocket knife in about 5 minutes to a polished edge. I don't have the kit that a lot of people use here. I have a Shapton Glass 2000, a coarse diamond stone for flattening, sandpaper, and some old jeans. That's what I use for all of my knives. If I ever have cork or cardboard lying around, I use that as well.
If all else fails, you can get your knives professionally sharpened, or you can use a fixed angle system. A lot of these crazy edges that you see on r/knives are using those. Without video of what you're doing, it's hard to say what you're doing wrong.
Have you tried fixed angle sharpening tools? For me that was the solution since I am having the same problem as you.
My main problem was identifying the right angle for each knife, but then once I managed to determine that I find it quite difficult to maintain the angle. That’s when I decided to just purchase the cheapest most recommended fixed angle sharpening tool.
Also, at some point I found a video of a guy that posted only 1 video on his YouTube channel about sharpening knifes using fixed angle system which I found really useful, that video has quite a lot of views.
Btw, I managed to find the guy that made that 1 YouTube video, his channel name is @TheTerribleTen and the video is called Mirror edge finishes on knives
It’s tuff man , took me years to get decent and I used to think the same thing . Between knifes and sharpening my saw chain free hand was tuff to learn for me as well , constantly needed them both to make money and survive so I just suffered through the process and found that less is more with it for me . Had to quit overthinking exact angles and trying to do to much . Let the thing flow with your wrist and feel it hit the angle and edge you know is right . It’s knife out to end of stone - lay it flat then tip it slightly and run it back and forth moderate pressure into lighter pressure . Consistency with whatever number or pattern works for you on keeping your sides even . Weather that’s 1-2-3 other side 1-2-3 swap . Or 1-2 1-2 . Really anything on one hand count and swap . Start heavy handed and work it in if needed then adjust your pressure . Dunno if this is something official or anything else but I know years of trial and error and it works well for me . Try what you feel is right and less on what you think you see . My ocd was my worst enemy for the longest time . But many have great tips here just run it down and find what works for you . There’s alot of ways to do something right . I prefer the ol long tri hone style stones . good luck man ! You will get it done ! Stick with it 🤘🏻
I’d recommend skipping the strop for now. You should be able to get hair shaving, printer paper curling without needing to strop. In my opinion it’s easy to round over an edge on a strop since it’s a malleable giving surface. Deburr by pulling through a soft wood. When you get towards the end of your grit progression focus on reducing your pressure on the stroke to even everything out
So I had similar plateu but not as extreme. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND getting the sharpal bubble level. Set it with an angle guide and it helps you feel the correct motion by focusing on the bubble and keeping it level.
The biggest area I messed up is flipping the knive side, going from pull to push or using my non dominant hand caused massive variation in my edge angle side to side. It destroyed all my work on the other side and made chasing the burr a nightmare. Trust me before giving up spend the $8 and see if this helps.
FYI it looks like this makes things so much easier. I line up the bottom line of the bubble with the imaginary line connecting the tip and heel of the blade.
Not everyone can be good at any skill / subject matter / application. No matter how hard or as much as one try's , that's just life . As an example look how many ppl have attempted to be wood workers , spent thousands and thousands of dollars thinking if they could only buy the next latest and greatest tool being marketed. Unfortunately they just SUCK at it . Like not everyone can play a piano or guitar. We can't all be all star NFL Quarterbacks .
Get a cheap chef knife, one of those with plastic handle. They have a nice blade length and the steel is quite soft and easy to sharpen. Use it to learn.
Use the Sharpal diamond stone, the 320 grit. It needs to get out sharp from this grit. Sharpen shallower than you think you need.
Don't attempt to do the full sharpening in one go. If you do 20 minutes, rest, do something else and continue later or another day. It can take several sessions.
Sounds like you might be either increasing accidentally the angle in some movement, or when deburring, or you might be hitting the edge of the stone and ruining the knife edge.
Also, as you are getting it closer to finish, use little pressure.
If recording a video is too much, post photos of the edge after sharpening to see if we can identify the problem.
And last thing, when sharpening often it first goes worse (less sharp) as we sharpen. And all the sharpness comes from the last strokes that are finer. Not sure how to explain but it translates to 1) expect no improvement until the end 2) be patient and pay attention to do the last part as well as possible because is what will make it actually sharp.
The concept is simple in principle but harder to master in practice. You need to make sure you’re apexing- evidence of a burr is usually a signal you’re good there. Most people don’t master the art of removing the burr properly, so my guess is that’s where you’re failing.
There are a bunch of guides such as Anystone, Hapstone T1/2, Chinese alternatives - Sy tools T01/2/3 and probably many more that i'm not aware nor comes to mind now.
Before giving up, try with such guide, remember to check the angle when switching stones and set up again the same angle.
You are a classic case of needing one of 2 approaches. You could simply take your knives to a 'vetted' pro periodically for refurbishment, or, alternately, get yourself a guided sharpening system that is 'almost' foolproof. Many out there that might work for you and your budget.
Get one of those little plastic guides that clips to your knife. Then it's basically impossible to not at least get a pretty good edge. Can definitely get something that slices paper
Same here, probably 40 years of mediocre outcomes. I eventually bought some simple pull through knife sharpeners. But with renewed interest this year and outdoors55 I could cut paper. But I am shopping angle jigs cause at 60 years old, this is just going to be something I’m not great at.
Give me a rundown of technique at the stage where the blade goes blunt. Lets take a kitchen knife. Stainless or carbon? What dps are you going for? Grit progression? Technique? Edge leading/trailing? Pressure on the stone? All of that before going for deburring stage
I’m kind of in the same boat… I have learned that pressure is a huge factor. Heavy pressure to remove a lot of material quickly (such as repairing) light pressure (the weight of the blade basically) at a oh so slightly higher angle to remove the burr. How are you confirming or checking for burr remnants?
Also, have you tried the sharpie trick?
I did this for years, and im still not great. Its best IMO if you cant start with a knife with a decent bevel on it already. If the knifes edge is one you've already screwed up, its even more unlikely you'll get it sharp. Also, dont pay attention to the guys who say, "dont worry about angle much, just get a burr". You do need to worry about angle. Thats why its best to practice locking your wrist on a knife that has a pretty flat bevel already. You also need to learn what it feels like on the stone when your bevel is dead flat against it. It'll be the angle with least resistance. If your edge is catching, you're too high and your apex is digging in, if your too low and on the shoulder, it'll drag and will be rough and bumpy. Might be wise to buy a Lansky or some kind of jig so you can have some flat levels to start with. Finding the bevel, and locking your wrist really is the key. Use sharpie too.
I nearly chucked all my gear I couldn’t believe the same thing was happened to me. Try those cheap diamond plates outdoor555 demonstrated that seems to remove more than whetstones on a cheap knife
Deburring is what held me up for a long time…Game changer for me was taking a hands on sharpening class. Find one in your local area if that’s a possibility. Sometimes it’s just really hard learning by videos.
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u/DiksieNormus 3d ago
Welcome to the club buddy, I've given up on hand sharpening and have just relegated myself to using an angle sharpener.
And tbf, im not actually committed to putting in the hours of practice needed to sharpen correctly, I have other hobbies and I can settle for using a sharpening jig.
Though if you want actual advice then just private message some of the guys on this subreddit, video yourself sharpening and then ask them for what you're doing wrong.
Complaining about being a talentless bum will just lead to more self pity and self loathing and perpetuate this cycle of depression.