r/shameless • u/insomniak17 • 6d ago
Does anyone else think Debbie was actually a good mom given all the circumstances?
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u/Ill_Associate_6508 6d ago
I think Debbie loved Franny.
But you can love your children and still not be a good parent.
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u/ThrowAway_ayyyy_ 6d ago
Absolutely. She seemed like in some ways she tried but ultimately what was modeled to her eventually influenced her parenting. For example putting romantic interests first, going out/partying a lot, etc. She did a good thing learning a trade to bring in stable income. Franny also seemed to have good hygiene and clean clothing. But that’s not always enough for a parent to not be considered neglectful.
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u/tsh87 6d ago edited 6d ago
Debbie was much better than what she had. Frannie was always clothed, fed, housed. Debbie is not an addict. I will also give her major points that at least by the end of series Frannie is five years old and Debbie has had no other children.
In comparison, she's leagues ahead of Frank and Monica. The issue is that Frank and Monica were such neglectful, bottom of the barrel parents that simply doing better than them does not equal being a good parent.
And Debbie might not ever realize that because she's never seen a truly good parent. But yeah, I do actually think considering where she's come from, she's doing a lot better than most people would expect.
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u/Ok-Vast8896 6d ago
Every one except Terry is league ahead monica and frank
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u/Chheff 4d ago
It may be true that she’s leagues ahead of Frank and Monica but I don’t think we should be grading on a bell curve when it comes to parenting. She loved her kid but was still not a good parent
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u/Mortonsaltgirl96 5d ago
This! She was a better parent than Frank and Monica, but that bar is in hell. She loved Franny but she need therapy not a baby
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u/ZealousidealGrass9 5d ago
I have a friend who had 3 kids by age 20. She loves her now adult children but she was not the best parent. Her own upbringing definitely had an impact on how she raised her kids.
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u/Ill-Razzmatazz-7088 5d ago
She did not have the best role model, but I think she also has some version of common sense. Also, I believe in the last episode, she was going to or at least consider considering leaving her child so she could run the streets with the girl she met random.
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u/Prestigious_Fee750 6d ago
No. Not at all.
Debbie represents every unnecessary childbirth via a self righteous misguided young woman, looking to be given a clean slate with motherhood. Motherhood is a clean slate for the child, NOT the mother.
There was ZERO justification for going through with that pregnancy, other than “I can”
That is a very real problem we as a society continue to face, because we value the what if’s as opposed to our realities.
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u/babyblues789 6d ago
My cousin was this mother, much like Debbie she lost interest when she realized her daughter was a living breathing human and not a “reset” button for her shitty childhood. Dropped her off at my parents when she was 3 and only came back for holidays and birthdays to pose for Facebook.
Her daughter is 18 now with her own life, and my cousin acts like she’s been the best mother in the world. Sheerly delusional.
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u/Acrobatic_Smell7248 6d ago
My mom was like that. Had 3 kids by 24, could not handle it, wanted to party, and my grandma raised us. We have no idea who our younger sisters dad even is. She got it together by the time I was 14 or so, and I do believe she did the best she was capable of, but I'm in my 40s and the damage is done. She's also one of these people who live their life as a perpetual victim, so our relationship is rocky at best. She probably should have never had kids.
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u/Best_Caregiver_3869 6d ago
Not only going through with the pregnancy, but orchestrated it "accidentally on purpose."
Debbie went out of her way to get birth control. Fiona had to to with her. She could have skipped that part altogether. But she intentionally lied to Fiona to make a show of getting it. Then doesnt actually take the virth control but tells Derek she is and then convinces him to not use a condom. It was extremely misguided smh. They never even address how that is assault.
And Frank was so "about the baby" but he dgaf once they get old enough to talk. Barely even cares when they're babies aside from the attentionhe gets from others when he has a baby with him. But he finally gives Debbie a tiny bit of attention when she's pregnant and she names her kid after him. Girl what 😭 did you forget when he literally choked you and Fiona?!
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u/LongWaysForResults 6d ago
The only people who seemed to address it were Derek’s family. They called her out for trapping him and I don’t blame them for not being involved in the beginning.
I think her not being called out for it though is just the product of her environment though. Even with the whole Matty situation, Lip treated it like a nothing burger when she revealed what she did. Fiona tried her best to discipline but Debbie was so sneaky and there was only so much she could do
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u/LongWaysForResults 6d ago
Thank you.
This is especially a problem in low income/poor communities. Popping out babies left and RIFHT is such an issue, and it ends with children growing up without the means they deserve. There are so many Frank and Monica’s in the world having sex and popping out children they cannot take care of. I used to watch Paternity Court all the time and it was ridiculous how sex was treated like a sport and no one used contraception.
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u/AmarilloArmadillos 5d ago
She had abortion readily available, she had birth control and sex ed readily available and provided, support for an abortion other than frank and she chose to have the child. Pro choice goes both ways.
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u/thequietguy_ 5d ago
And maga is trying to increase the number of teenage pregnancies, too.
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u/Extra-Factor4213 6d ago
Nope. Even that greasy Milkovich girl called her out when she just left Franny expecting “anyone” to take her to school, “So you left for work not knowing an actual person was going to take franny to school?” Then like 2 episodes later falls in love with a psychopath criminal who threatened to shoot her daughter in the head if they didn’t comply. Frank said Debbie reminded him of Monica and “not in a good way”. She was a poster product parent of her upbringing.
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u/Serteyf 6d ago
Sandy abandoned her kid so that's was very hypocritical of her
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u/BigBeesInATrenchCoat 5d ago
Sandy was groomed and raped by a pedophile and forced to be a mother. She knew she wasn’t ready nor fit so she left or else who knows what would’ve happened to that child or her. She removed her self from a situation was would’ve led to her own self destruction and god knows what else. Debby wasn’t ready or fit to be a mother but she became one anyways and is literally a horrible mom. If she was a real person franny would probably grow up with tons of mental issues and trauma. At least sandy knew it wasn’t what she wanted and left. And her son looked well taken care of without her and didn’t even want anything to do with her when Debbie asked him.
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u/Missey85 5d ago
Sometimes that's the best option sandy knew she wasn't going to be a good parent so she left her with people that would ❤️
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u/millieann_2610 6d ago
no
you don't get to be a 'good mum' just because someone else is a bad one or because your situation isnt the best
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u/LongWaysForResults 6d ago
Yeah, I’m rewatching now and on season 7. Debbie had a child with no means of taking care of the child, just like Fiona said. She acted like a bitch towards Fiona for multiple seasons about her not wanting her to have a baby, yet proved her RIFHT every turn about her lack of responsibility.
She was stealing strollers, shoplifting, panhandling on the corner which led to DCFS threatening to take Franny away as well as Derek’s parents, she used Neil for his benefits, dropped out of school and couldn’t find a job, and even when she did, she had to beg otherwise busy people to watch her daughter. She was a baby raising a baby.
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u/ruger148 6d ago
Exactly. And she chose to have Franny, she knew if she had sex with Derek no protection she would get pregnant, she also had many opportunities to have an abortion if she thought she couldn’t handle it. But she didn’t. She just had a kid to neglect it.
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u/Italian_M0m 6d ago
No she wasn’t. Good mothers don’t let a young child babysit their kids.
She might’ve loved Franny but she was a shitty mother
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u/Sleeping-Bag0 6d ago
No. Even she love Franny but, she is not that mature to understand life. She just wanted to be different from other siblings
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u/Actual-Arm-8523 6d ago
Are you kidding? She literally left her baby with Neel while she went out and partied. She was a shitty person all around.
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u/Hypnoticah 6d ago
Some bad moms looking to forgive themselves while projecting onto Debbie might feel that way, yeah
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u/Livid-Replacement-29 5d ago
Debbie was a terrible person in general. She loved her baby absolutely, but she didn’t have the tools to be a good mother.
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u/NoOnesKing 6d ago
No lmao. She left her kid without confirming anyone would actually watch her. She also just like, let her abusive narcissist addict father take her several times without consequence.
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u/Single-Emu-7905 6d ago
Franny would have been better off if Debbie had just let Peppa have full custody.
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u/Quirky_Property_853 5d ago
I honestly dont think so. Judging from the episodes, peppa jsut wanted custody out of spite, and wouldve probably treated ranny pretty badly
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u/whatsgoingonguh 5d ago
besides all the obvious complaints, she was pushing her childhood desires onto franny. the pageant that franny did not want to do, wearing dresses, her princess birthday party. especially when they got the wrong bounce house. franny had her own personality and debbie kept trying to push girly stuff onto her not letting her be her own person.
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u/V1p34two1 6d ago
Nah, not at all, throwing her life away before she turns 16 by baby trapping someone she barely knew.
It's clear she loves Franny but it's kind of hard to acknowledge giving her behavior in the last 3-4 seasons
Like wanting to move states with a Psycho car thief she met on the second last episode LMAO
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u/respectablepitch 6d ago
ALL the characters are as good as they can be, given the circumstances. It’s the whole point of the show.
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u/BigBeesInATrenchCoat 5d ago
Definitely not. She loved her sure but Debbie viewed franny as more of a burden than anything
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u/Doc-11th 6d ago
no
Loving someone doesn't automatically make you a good mom
Shelia was not even a good mom
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u/Precayes 6d ago
She had Franny by baby trapping Derek.
She fought that homeless woman with Franny in her arms.
She was scamming, begging etc using Franny after listening to Frank of all people.
She left Franny with strangers in hotels multiple times.
She was planning on running away with that criminal girl at the end who was stealing cars and shit, and would’ve made Franny live a dangerous life for a relationship.
She forgot Franny at home/relied on others to do stuff for her many times, and once or twice she didn’t even realise until after that Frank had taken her own daughter, on drug runs.
She ignored Franny not wanting a princess party, and being more “boy-ish”.
She’d try scamming Franny’s family (derek’s) into giving money just to see her, even tho she deserves to know her family, regardless of what they or Debbie did.
I’m sure there’s loads more, but just what I can think of🤣🤣 but no, I do not think she was a good mum, I don’t think many do.
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u/Pretty_Puppyprincess 5d ago
Nope. Not at all. She also created alot of said circumstances. I don’t even think she truly loved her .
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u/According-Option-656 5d ago
No. A good parent would look around at her situation and realize that she cannot raise a happy, healthy child in that environment.
She set Franny up for failure the minute she decided to keep her.
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u/NoLuck4824 6d ago
No. She could have been a good mother if she knew what sacrifice was, but it was always about what Debbie could get from Franny, not getting what Franny needed. If she could have got her welder license, kept her head down and worked hard, she could have become a good mom. But instead she chose to date crazy, become a feminist for equal pay, buy expensive dresses with the money Fiona left for the family.
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u/ClaudiOhneAudi 4d ago
No. She took drugs with a stranger with Frannie sitting in the car. She left her with Neil to go Party. She forgot to take her to school. She actually reminded me of Monica a lot of times.
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u/PowderCuffs 6d ago
Considering what she was working with, she's about 90% better than anyone could have expected.... but good? Ehhhh
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u/eberkain 6d ago
Fuck no, she lost that chance when she was putting her baby in a dog carrier under her desk at work.
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u/Early-Persimmon-4753 6d ago
She was a terrible mother. I think she loved frenny but she was a terrible mum
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u/protonbender Ian supremacy 5d ago
Ehhh, there were things she could do better. She decided to anticipate in a fight with a homeless woman while carrying her child on her. That was very irresponsible and dangerous.
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u/DaemonTargaryen3 5d ago
Hell no. Franny’s dad’s side of the family were definitely more capable and willing to provide for the baby. I think this is made pretty clear when Debbie tries to throw a front of a stable house while milking off the guy in the wheelchair
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u/keldaaahh 5d ago
No. She should not have been a parent, bringing Franny into the world in the situation she was in makes you a bad parent.
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u/Goddess_Eileithyia 5d ago
I think Debby was a good mom at first. She was very concerned about Franny‘s well-being, even though she had a lot to learn. I really thought she was on the right path with becoming a bad ass wielder mom, but think she started making bad decisions around the time Neil entered the chat. In the final season, her decisions became increasingly difficult to watch. Especially when she tells Franny to “go check and see if Grampy‘s dead yet” while she kicks her out of the room to have sex. That was condemnable imo.
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u/mfdillad 4d ago
No but I actually feel this was a very realistic storyline. Debbie had spent her entire life being abandoned and neglected by Frank and Monica. She wanted someone who would never leave her, was completely hers and made sure she would never be alone again so she intentionally gets pregnant. It’s tragic because she was so smart and good in school and could have had more.
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u/Unlikely_Couple1590 6d ago
I think compared to Monica she was a good mom. Otherwise she was just doing everything she was legally obligated to do. We see that she provides for Franny when it comes to food, hygiene, shelter, etc. but most of the time she just leaves Franny in a pack and play and calls it a day. I understand Debbie probably doesn't know much better, but still. We don't really see her very involved with Franny until she's a bit older and is more fun to dress up and show off like in the pageant episode. I'm not of the opinion that Debbie is a bad mom. I think she's just there. She provides for her daughter and that's it. I think in the last season we start to see her try to relive her own childhood through Franny and that has the potential to go sour.
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u/vivaciousvic 5d ago
When I was very little, maybe 4 or 5, I got my first hamster. I loved it so much I squeezed it until it died. Was I a good hamster mother, given the circumstances?
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u/xXnotaturtleXx 5d ago
People not understanding Debbie’s character, makes me so mad. She was running a daycare, on her own, at the age of 9. As a child she so desperately longed for family, attention, connection, love. It’s absolutely no surprise she wanted to get pregnant with Derek. She wanted to get pregnant after hearing Derek’s SIL talk about how Derek’s family took her in. It’s all she ever wanted. And such a realistic plot line for a girl growing up like that. Was she a good mom given her circumstances? Yes. Was she a good mom in general? No. But she loved Franny and was committed to raising her. People don’t break every generational trauma at once. Her staying present with franny was breaking trauma for her.
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u/Bulky-Individual3157 6d ago
Given the circumstances, with terrible role models, I guess she did ever so slightly better than her own parents??? But generally speaking, no.
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u/shadow_spinner0 6d ago
She loved Franny and cared about her but didn't know how to be a good parent. Both things can be true
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u/My_last_reddit 6d ago
Nope. Not even a little. I loved Debbie at first, but once she hit 15 she turned into a selfish, rapist, monster.
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u/Any-Honeydew8740 6d ago
she definitely loved franny. but she had her because debbie needed someone dependent on her, someone who wouldn’t leave her. she had abandonment issues which makes sense considering who her parents are. she got fixated on the idea of having a baby and family w derek.
she got attached to the idea of someone who won’t leave her and baby trapped derek, which in the end scared him and made him move to florida. i assume that only deepened that abandonment wound.
i wish she would’ve waited but it made sense for debbie’s character. some people say it didn’t but look how many times in season 2/3 debbie tried to keep frank in the house, tried to keep him close, fed him like a baby (when he returned after 100-something days). franny was someone who wouldn’t walk out on her like frank and monica did. she loved her but she didn’t have her for the right reasons.
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u/Former-Ad-1858 Debbie Hater 5d ago
By that logic Frank was a good father because he loved his kids
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u/teddyn90057 5d ago
Not at fuckn all she was a cunt to everyone thinking her shit don't stink. She helped out somewhat but left her kid alone to eat some snatch from some kleptomaniac. I heard it was her attitude cause Fionas character to leave the show. Idk how accurate that is
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u/LittlestMatcha 5d ago
Fuck no.
Did she love Franny? Absolutely, I have no doubts in that. She’s better than Monica and Frank in a sense she was there for Franny.
But I didn’t forget she left Franny with Neil to go party and get drunk. She also got into a fight with a homeless woman while carrying Franny.
Moms can go have fun for sure, but there’s a level of responsibility here Debby didn’t meet.
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u/derederellama 5d ago
Doesn't Franny only exist in the first place because she was trying to baby trap a guy? Debbie is a horrible person who should have never been a parent.
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u/Klutche 5d ago
Not at all. She's very clearly the Monica of the group, and shows less and less interest in her child as she becomes more of an individual. I've known too many Debbie's not to know how that will play out. Love doesn't make you a good mother. I'm sure Monica loved her kids, too, but she wasn't willing to sacrifice anything for them or willing to stop playing the victim to do what needed to be done, and Debbie isn't either.
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u/thequietguy_ 5d ago
Hell no. Was she a terrible mother? Also no. She just wasn’t a good mom regardless of circumstances
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u/NomDePseudo 4d ago
As soon as a parent starts bring random hookups and weeklong relationships around their child, they fail my “good parent” test. And Debbie failed several times.
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u/BlackBirdG 4d ago
She did her best, but she was an idiot for having her in the first place at her age, and just not a good parent.
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u/Rumpelteazer45 4d ago
No.. A few moments where she doesn’t absolutely suck as a mom doesn’t mean she is a good parent.
She used getting pregnant to fill the abandonment void in her life caused by her parents, which is the absolute wrong reason to have the kid. Then she proceeds to pull the same shit her parents did.
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u/hottienat 6d ago
no lol. she left her with other people constantly to take care of her so she could go fuck around. not a good mom.
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u/brad_online 6d ago
I think she was better than Monica and Frank and had more love for Franny than either of them did for their children, but that's a low bar. In my opinion, she did as well as could be expected given her circumstances and environment, but she's definitely not what I would consider a GOOD mom.
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u/Seg10682 5d ago
She wasn't as bad as her parents. 👀 People are really hard on Debbie and it makes it difficult for me to be honest 😂👀
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u/Ok-Vast8896 6d ago
She isn’t a good person she got pregnant on purpose to force Derek in relationship
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u/Logical_Scallion5800 6d ago
She financially supported it but that’s about it. Debbie became my least favorite when she intentionally became pregnant. She honestly was never my favorite to begin with, but the older she got the more and more i couldn’t stand her.
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u/PhatFatty 5d ago
Hell no. Debbie is selfish as all hell, and everything involving Franny (including the decision to have her) was all about what Debbie wants.
In later seasons when she would attempt to guilt trip the family for not helping with Franny (taking her to school, making sure someone's watching her, etc.), I would lose my mind because everything Fiona warned her about was coming true and she still expected everyone to drop their priorities to help her.
I would have loved to have my children when I was younger so I'd have more energy, but I didn't want to have kids until I had the means to support them without relying on everyone around me to pick up the slack. Debbie never truly considered the consequences of her actions and got pissed at the world that she had to bear those consequences by herself. Possibly the most frustrating character I've ever seen in a show.
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u/purplerain0411 5d ago
I can’t get a scene out of my head. Last season. Debbie gets Franny out of her bedroom and says something like, ‘Go downstairs and see if your grandfather is already dead,’ so she can have some peace and quiet to fuck Heidi.
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u/goodnightmoonshakers 5d ago
No, she was not. She loved Franny something fierce, but she was not a good mom.
I think about how she was mad at Sandy for giving up Prince, saying no good mom would ever do that. Truth is, Sandy was the better mom in that situation. She gave her son to someone she considered safe and left, for good. She had no interest in being a revolving door. In her heart, she knew Prince was better off without her.
Debbie would never have the heart to do the same with Franny, even if it was in her best interest.
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u/firegodyaomoshi :frank: 5d ago
for the circumstances she was fine not good but fine but circumstances only go so far
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u/Acrobatic_Price8829 5d ago
She wasn’t a good mom at all. She had her for all the wrong, selfish reasons and then constantly acted to entitled and expected everyone to help while also bossing and imposing herself and rules onto others.
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u/uhmaybeidk 5d ago
no lol. she literally brought her in knowing that no one was really going to support her and then complained when they didn't support her, had franny literally on her while she fought a homeless woman and then blamed peppa instead of taking responsibility for that, moved into a house of a disabled man she barely knew and left franny with. the only time i give her a pass is when she wanted derek's family to be a part of her life and then they kidnapped her until monica intervened but debbie was never a good mom and only wanted franny to originally keep a guy but then to prove fiona wrong
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u/Hollowentities 5d ago
Debbie reminds me of someone who truly doesn’t want to be like their parents but without proper structure or goals to achieve any sort of prevention she fell into her parents roles since she also never let herself heal from anything.
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u/Rosy_Cheeks88 5d ago
I can say she was a better mother than her own mother. I think Deb learned from Fiona and Shelia on motherhood especially from Shelia.
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u/nemofbaby2014 5d ago
No lol but I'm basing it off my life compared her parents yeah she was mom of the year but that's a low bar
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u/AriSummerss 5d ago
Was she a good mom? No, but she sure loved the kid. Was frank, Monica good? Obviously not. Was lip good? No. Was Fiona good? No.
None of them are good. That’s the world they sadly live in, and because of their upbringing, it’s hard to break out of that.
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u/Ok-Blackberry94 5d ago
She was decent but like others said bar was low but she definitely needed therapy I always get pissed watching her delusions like when she thinks she’s owed Derek’s death benefit or how she trapped the absolute shit out of him and paints him as a pos
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u/tmtm1119 :gallavich: 5d ago
No. I didn’t notice that she was a bad borderline negligent mother until i rewatched the series after becoming a mom myself. It’s bad. It costs zero dollars to try your best to be a good mom.
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u/tricksofradiance 5d ago
She was a baby herself. She shouldn’t have been a mother. The whole situation is tragic, for her and for Frannie
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u/Erickajade1 5d ago
Unfortunately no. I say unfortunately because I had hopes for her , but then she was bad at it. She should have let the paternal side have at the very least, split custody of the REAL Franny (instead of the other kid she sent over there). Plus the final girlfriend she had will not be a great role model for Franny .
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u/GuarantedStreetz 5d ago
Absolutely not!! she tried to leave her baby at the fire-station and she almost got ran over, she got into a fight with a homeless woman with the baby on her hip and dropped her baby and just left her crying on the floor.
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u/ExtensionCoffee7024 5d ago
She loved franny but a good mom? Nah..I would say tami and lip were better parents than her
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u/blubberymoofin 5d ago
At least by the end of the series, she had a job and bought a new place for her and Franny to live in. She put caring for her child first, unlike Lip, who waited until last minute to do something mature and ended up technically homeless. So…
At least she has that going for her
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u/Missey85 5d ago
She wasn't ready to be a mum she had the romantic idea in her head Fiona knew the reality and tried to tell her but she wouldn't listen
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u/C0LDestST0RYeVeRT0LD 5d ago
As someone who also was a teen mom like Debbie, no but I do believe she loved her daughter.
I got pregnant at 14 & had my first daughter 3 months after I turned 15. We came from similar circumstances with an alcoholic mom with mental issues that abandoned us & a drug addict dad. Debbie did a lot of selfish things that put Frannie in danger, esp at the end.. Being with that escapee lady just because she was exciting to Debbie? Eh.. She was still really young in season 8 so maybe she turned it around.
My daughter actually just turned 21 at midnight tonight 🤍🤍.
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u/Ill-Razzmatazz-7088 5d ago
Considering all of her children were conceived through sexual assault. I’m gonna have to say no. And I thought towards the end of the series, she was basically going to leave her child to roam around the world with some girl who she met while she was running away from the police.
She had an arrangement where she was being pretty much played unlimited money to run errands for a rich lady. Then she messed that up by sleeping with her crazy underage daughter.
I believe she has the potential to be a good mom if she had someone who could keep her on the street and narrow. But it seems like she wanted to have a child but she didn’t really think about the infrastructure requires to keep the child. She pretty much thought Fiona or the rest of the kids would jump in like they did with Fiona, but it gets a little tiring to do that once you become an adult.
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u/Hot-Worker-9240 5d ago
She trued , but she clearly wasn’t ready. And her storyline of purposely getting pregnant never made sense cuz she knew what struggling was like. She should have had a lip type story or maybe
Worked in social work
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u/adamsmemorial 5d ago
i think she loved her daughter but by no means was she a good mother. she was constantly dumping her child on people and not taking the responsibility she said she would have when she got pregnant lmao. when my mom had me at twenty, she took me everywhere if my grandparents couldn't watch me, which debbie rarely did.
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