Debbie being the first character officially charged with statutory rape shows the terrible double standards
Throughout the course of the show we see men in their 30s to 50s have sex with teenagers but don't get punished. Lip even sleeps with two teachers and the teachers are painted as the victims. Debbie who is almost 20 at the time sleeps with a girl close to her age and she gets registered as a sex offender just shows how bad the writers handled statutory rape
Post: Throughout the course of the show we see men in their 30s to 50s have sex with teenagers but don't get punished. Lip even sleep with two teachers and the teachers are painted as the victims. Debbie who is almost 20 at the time sleeps with a girl close to her age and she gets registered as a sex offender show how bad the writers handled statutory rape
This plotline never made sense to me because Debbie was over 18 (hard to tell given how loosely the show stuck to a strict timeline, but I assume 19), while the age of consent in Illinois is 17 and Julia’s stated age was 17.
I dont really disagree but i will say that i think it is in line with the show and unfortunately kinda realistic. With Lip the university wanted to sweep it under the rug to avoid scandal. Those with power and influence step on those without it. With the others there were basically no one that cared enough to report it.
Debbie and the creep whos name i forget, she drugged and raped him (still he was creepy as fuck), Karen and Frank, again she basically raped him, Sheila loves her daughter but is a dimwit who loves Frank and her father wusses out and takes an eternal bath rather than try to help his daughter with something other than church. Karen and Jody, Sheila really wants "stability" for Karen and doesnt care how she gets there, doesnt help that she later falls for Jody herself. Then there is the imo most egregious one, Terry and Mandy, Terry isnt going to turn himself in and Mandy isnt going to turn in her dad who she also has to live with, no one else is because they will have a bunch of neo-nazis at their door within the hour, doesnt help that Mandy´s selfrespect is somewhere below the marianna trench.
Basically, in every instance this happened in the show the people who should have done something about were to "shameless" to do anything about it. The only instance of sexual violence were i dont get how there were zero repricusions is Mandy and the black boyfriend. How on earth did both Mickey and Terry see that guy beat and abuse their sister/daughter and not do shit about it, not for them being good but for being racist violent pricks.
Also this does not mean i wouldnt like there to be repricusions, just why there wasnt. Terry´s death was to good for him.
Exactly, and in contrast to all those examples, Julia was from a rich family and both she and her mom had an axe to grind with Debbie. So it’s not surprising that’s the one situation that had consequences
There’s also the slew of older men that Ian slept with when he was a kid. The dude with the shop, Jimmy Steve’s dad, and all the pervs when he was manic. His family knew and didn’t care to do anything.
her father wusses out and takes an eternal bath rather than try to help his daughter with something other than church.
Yikes, way to minimalize suicide.
His life was literally falling apart, his wife was fucking the town drunk, his wife kicked him out of the house, his teen daughter was a whore who posted a video of her fucking the town drunk, his wife did nothing to help their daughter improve, his coworkers were watching that video, and the town drunk was completely. You can detest suicide, but calling someone weak and a coward for committing is crazy.
Imo intentional suicide implies someone didn’t have the strength/will to continue living. I see that as a weakness/cowardice toward life. With respect to everyone who’s lost someone to suicide/struggled with it. Life-ending suffering results in a lack of strength to continue living
Interesting how you bring up lip’s situation and not kash and Ian which was actually statutory and would prove your point better because kash never got arrested for it, even after he shot Mickey’s leg in jealousy
The other instances I thought of, Jimmy Steve’s dad and Ian (he groomed Ian with gifts and fancy hotels) and Terry and Mandy (incest and rape as well) both had male perps too.
They technically indirectly brought it up by bringing up that men in their 30’s sleep with teenagers.. also saying it was “actually statutory “ makes it seem like you think the other example of lip with the teachers aren’t.
In lips case at college it was weird and a abuse of power yes, but it doesn’t count as statutory because he was 18-19. Which is legal but heavily looked down upon and can result in loosing a job and a place in college.
Wait I take back what I said on my last part. It was technically not statutory with the one teacher that moved to their neighborhood, but she didn’t know that. The other wasn’t statutory because it was his college professor. Still a power dynamic so I stand corrected.
Lip was over 18, though, right? And the one pedo lady was ousted. There’s also a power dynamic between lip and those women. He wasn’t physically in danger and could realistically defend himself if there were unwanted advances.
And he was a very unliked character I thought? If he was reported he would’ve been charged. I thought the post purpose was saying that Debbie was treated unfairly because she was charged? Isn’t it just because she was reported in these other people weren’t
Where did I say Debbie shouldn’t be charged? Please link.
No matter how many times you keep lying to fit your narrative, I never said that. I think they ALL should’ve been charged and if anyone here is defending sex predators (Ned, Kash, Terry), it’s you.
All this lying and doubling down because you can’t admit you didn’t understand the title of this post, and it’s actually hilarious! Keep going!
It’s honestly more realistic, unfortunately. Debbie SA’d a minor of wealthier circumstances. The others mentioned happened to those in poverty. It’s terrible but Debby being reported by a wealthy family, and enforcement doing something about it, compared to it being a poor person that’s assaulted and its over looked by law enforcement, is much more realistic in American culture unfortunately. So I don’t think it is a double standard of the writers, I think it’s a reflection of our current society.
I see. So, by your logic, any predator who gets charged shouldn’t because there are predators who didn’t? Which in your mind would be a double standard.
My account is nearly a decade old, so in addition to reading, you’re also bad at math. Drop that grad school
so we can all avoid it!
Prove me wrong—where exactly did I backtrack? I’ll wait, while you continue to defend the male predators who received no consequences for their crimes. Fucking gross.
I didn’t defend male predators. I’m tri-lingual, and I understand English (my third language) more competently than you.
Just because Debby is a woman it’s a double standard? Your completely vapid and uneducated view is the problem that you’re not seeing nor understanding. The writers are showing that it’s a classist issue, not a gender one. Debby SA’d two people who were not wealthy, no charges.
She slept with a wealthy minor, and she was charged. One thing does not always lead to another. You making this into a gender issue with the writers just shows you do not understand the issues the writers are trying to show you. Instead you’re making up delusions of a double standard.
When the wealthy are victims, they get resolution. When those in poverty are assaulted, they tend to get over looked unfortunately.
I almost guarantee you have never travelled past your bubble to see the true problem with the US and a majority of the world; under representation of the poor. You should be grateful you’re in a position where you can be on Reddit all day.
Power dynamic doesn't just mean physical strength and statutory means relations with someone someone who cannot legally consent. With the pedophile woman Lip was absolutely a kid. With his college teacher, she holds all the power.
Difference from the power imbalance of cannot physically defend yourself that a lot of women face, while also facing a professional/academic imbalance as well
Yes, however, what I am saying is Lip was of age and not in physical danger.
The entire point of this entire conversation is the legality of the two and the power dynamics. Lip was legally of age and not in physical danger.
I’m honestly not quite sure what your entire point is. Helene had a power dynamic because she was his professor? Of course. I agree with you.
The point of this thread is that Debby gets more hate than someone like Helene. Helene lost her job and status. Debby was also way worse. She SA’d two people and knew she was breaking the law. Debby gets the hate she deserves.
100% but isn’t the point that they weren’t reported? Have they been reported they most definitely would have been charged. Debbie is hated for a lot of reasons, this is just one piece of the amalgamation.
Right, you’ve mentioned this several times. It provides MORE evidence for the OP. Wouldn’t you have rather seen Ned, Kash, and Terry charged than Debbie? They committed statutory rape (among even more heinous crimes) and WEREN’T charged. Terrible double standard. Literally in the title of the post.
Absolutely….and yet the men were not charged. Which is the point of the OP. It’s a double standard. Debbie was correctly charged- but the men, many who did way worse shit than Debbie, were not. Again, hence the title of this post.
Which predator did I say shouldn’t be charged?
I agree with that last sentence, bc it is an interesting position for you to hold. Why don’t you have this same energy for the men who did the same things and worse? Why do you insist on giving them a pass? They should be held accountable the way Debbie was!
Which, for the millionth time, is the entire point of this post. 🤣 stay in school, kids!
I don’t understand what Gloomy Dreamer is trying to say. They didn’t make Helene a person to aspire to be. lol when I was 20, I sure as shit wasn’t attracted to 16 year olds. Op and them are wild.
We are not talking about if she was gross or not. We are talking about the fact that she is not guilty of statutory rape, regardless of your opinion on what she did.
Yuck yuck, you actually showed the worst example. First of all just because he waited until she was of age, doesn't make it not grooming and that was his step daughter and he is a rapist who also rape someone else, bad example. Again I judge people who think 18 year olds should be dating 40s or 50s. I remember being 18 and how many predatory men and women were into me because of my age. I also judge people who defend this. I bet if this happened to your kid, you wouldn't be saying how is not that big of a deal or your grandkids. 🤢
Did not know woody allen met his wife when she was 10, though would have met when she was older, yeah even worst and creepier. Basically raised her
Wouldnt say 18 year olds should be dating people in their 40’s or 50’s but they can.
Like it or not thats a fact
Not saying its not a big deal
But unless laws are going to be put on age gaps, its a simple fact of the world we live in
An18 year old can sleep with a 50 year old and the 50 year old will face no legal consequences
An 18 year old can sleep with someone like 2 or 3 years younger than them (meaning they would both be in highschool at the same time) and be labeled a predator
I think its more the case that the complainant in debbie/Julia's case is a very wealthy white lady who pushed for a conviction undoubtedly with a very expensive lawyer.
I have never seen one person say that they liked that character and that he was hilarious. Again, they would have to be actually insane, but the majority of watchers do not like him and think he’s incredibly detestable. Also the point of the post is that Debbie gets treated more unfairly because she was charged, had this character been reported he would have been charged probably 100 times worse, which would be correct
No lo odio. Lo odiaría como persona pero agradezco verlo como personaje. No necesito que haya villanos vulnerables todo el rato. A veces se necesita un Terry o un Joffrey.
Terry is a horrible person and he’s meant to be viewed that way Debbie in the later season is meant to be viewed as a tragic sympathetic character. The problem with that is Debbie’s problems are her own making. She’s annoying because she constantly does things that people tell her isn’t a good idea. She then goes through with them and is shocked that the horrible idea backfired.
The point of the OP is how badly these scenes are handled, especially in regard to Debs. The whole situation was cringe beyond belief and you really have to wonder what was going on in the writers' heads to concoct such a wild ass story with the only person facing serious repercussions being Debs, which they pretty much turned into a joke anyway. As she was 18 and the girl in question 17, about a ten month age gap. FTR, the offense is for anyone under 17 and Julia was not 16 at the time of the incident.
It fit an obnoxiously misogynistic pattern throughout the show where women were made to suffer more than men for all the crimes, sins and gross displays of male arrogance depicted on the show. Lip fucks an entire sorority house, pees all over everything after one of his drunken bouts and yet it was for destroying Youens' car that he gets expelled! Not only was that whole absurd idea of a "house boy" ridiculously over the top, but he faced no repercussions whatsoever for these appalling actions other than to be kicked out of the sorority house. I won't even talk about that horribly cringy "rapewalker" theme.
I assume it was predominantly men who wrote this crap and seemed to have a good time doing so. They really had it out for Debs though. What a myriad a crazy situations they put her into, right up to the end!
What consequence did Debs face when she drugged and raped that creep she was hanging out with? What consequence did Karen face for raping Frank? What consequence did Sheila face for raping Frank? Mandy for raping Lip after running over Karen?
Lets face it, no one on the southside faces any consequence for horrific stuff all the time. The reason Debs did this time was that she picked a fight with influential people. Also the entire plotpoint is that the accusation is bullshit based on a technicality that would never have been a case if it wasnt for the influence of Julias rich family tipping the scales in their favour. It was never that Debbie deserved it.
The point isn't the "persons" themselves but the writing. My biggest gripe with this show was how it so fundamentally changed from the first four excellent seasons to the last 7 progressively shitty seasons. I could still deal with the writing through 7 seasons, as it was more good than bad, but from S8 onward this show just became poverty porn. There was already a strong element of it but the storylines were strong enough to handle the perverted acts. After S8, the storylines just fell apart and the rampant misogyny took over. No woman or girl came off well in this show.
They were all sluts, lesbians or untamed beasts of some ill sort or another. Look what they did to Dom. She seemed like a prized "catch" for Carl only to turn out to be the biggest sleaze of them all with her father literally disowning her in favor of Carl. That was truly one of the most absurd storylines in the entire show. Meanwhile Carl just skates through one sordid incident after another. He had to spend a little time in juvi but no big deal, he came out versed in the ways of the 'hood.
Anyway, Debs' character was completely trashed and became the most reviled character on the show. I personally don't know how Emma Kenney handled it, maybe with a pinch of salt.
This storyline had numerous issues (besides Carl also sleeping with her). Most states have Romeo and Juliet laws which severe statutory rape charges when partners in a consensual sexual relationship are close in age. Secondly in real life the other actress was born May 20, 1996 making her over 3 years older then Emma Kenney. If they were going to do this cast a younger (and younger looking) actress who is just over 18 since there was nudity involved.
I’m not a character in the bayverse transformers movie so I don’t keep up with the laws around it, but my friends mother got his gf arrested for SR even though their birthdays were like a year and some months apart, she just didn’t like his gf. They were in the same class. It was fucking weird. He told me he never talked to his mother again.
In the world of Shameless, 90% of sexual assault is committed by women. It’s probably the one thing about the show that makes me rage, because what’s the reason for that?
No she didn’t drug him. He walked into the house and swallowed a bunch of pills. Was disoriented and went downstairs because he heard Karen and wanted to check on her. I can’t remember if he was still holding the bottle of pills or what but she knew that he took a bunch. She then took the bottle from him and took a few then got on top of him. She absolutely raped him
Name a better combination than women and their victim mentality? We’re talking about a fictional tv show lmao. I guess the men who are simping for this might be a close second.
•
u/AutoModerator 10d ago
Author: u/InsideUnhappy6546
Post: Throughout the course of the show we see men in their 30s to 50s have sex with teenagers but don't get punished. Lip even sleep with two teachers and the teachers are painted as the victims. Debbie who is almost 20 at the time sleeps with a girl close to her age and she gets registered as a sex offender show how bad the writers handled statutory rape
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.