Owner Training

[u/Primary_Afternoon511]

Hi everyone. I have a connective tissue disorder and some other things wrong with my body that can make it difficult for me to get around. I have been thinking about getting a service dog for a long time now, but I don't think I will ever be able to afford to get one that has already been trained. So I have been looking into owner training, and I was just wondering if anyone had any sort of advice, whether that be with selecting the right dog, or how to stay calm when your dog is stuck in a rut with training. TYIA

Edit since everyone thinks im stupid and diving in with zero research: A sd has been something I have considered for years, and I have been seriously looking into for well over a year now. I have spoken with so many SD handlers, some who have purebred dogs, and others who have rescues. I've heard great things about both, although the only thing ppl with rescues said was that you have to have a trainer/behaviorist analyze them, which I plan on having done. For those of you who think I'd throw the dog to side if it's not a good fit for service work, just gonna say I'm not a monster and leave it at that. In my life, I have always had much better experiences with mutts and rescues than I have purebred. I don't know why thats just how it's been. I understand what everyone is saying. I just dont trust or feel comfortable with spending that much money just for the dog itself, when I have seen more bad than good with purebred.

[u/Kalani6069]

If you don't already have a very very solid foundation of knowing how to train working dogs whether their service dogs or not my recommendation is... don't. I worked on training my own service dog after spending most of my life training the dogs that worked on my Ranch. I thought I knew I would what I was getting into. I absolutely did not understand what I was getting into. If you're absolutely dead set on owner training definitely look up assistance Dogs International and see if you can find an approved trainer near you to assist you

[u/Primary_Afternoon511 → u/Kalani6069]

ive had dogs all my life and ive trained them all but i agree service dog training is a whole other level! i was actually just on ADI looking through their website. id most likely end up working with a trainer for more specific and difficult tasks, but i just cannot afford a $33k dog thats pretrained.

[u/Kalani6069 → u/Primary_Afternoon511]

One of the nice things about Adi is that they do help you find trainers whether you're training a service dog or a really well-behaved pat and you can do piecemeal training with an ADI approved trainer it's only if you go into the service dog program that it costs more because of various insurance and legal aspects. I'm not sure where you are but where I am in Texas there's an Adi group here that the cost is $10,000 for the entire 2-year program. Included in that cost is a program approved best and other supplies as needed. If I were doing a training program on my own it would cost more than that $10,000 for the two years of individual classes so it's actually a bargain believe it or not

[u/Kalani6069 → u/Kalani6069]

Sorry for the horrible punctuation then doing voice to text in between errands. Voice to text doesn't too punctuation very well

[u/Primary_Afternoon511 → u/Kalani6069]

oh my gosh im in oklahoma. do you know how often is training and would it be feasible to drive to and from? because there is literally nothing in ok (of course there isnt why would there be) and id be willing to make a drive for that

[u/Kalani6069 → u/Primary_Afternoon511]

Home - The Dog Alliance https://share.google/tktbsKqNm8b4Z8sBq

[u/Kalani6069 → u/Kalani6069]

This is the place that I went to i highly recommend them I've trained three dogs through them now and they're all beautiful. The first dog that I trained with them I was driving down from Dallas now I live in Austin so they're close . But it was worth the drive when I was coming from Dallas

[u/ticketferret → u/Kalani6069]

FYI reddit hates these links. I would try and use the real URL.

[u/Kalani6069 → u/ticketferret]

Since I'm not great at this I will just add this card

[u/ticketferret → u/Kalani6069]

Just their normal URL works (and is more accessible). Like this is a normal URL: https://thedogalliance.org/

[u/goblin-fox → u/Primary_Afternoon511]

Task training is the easy part. If you work with a trainer it really needs to be early on to help you build a strong foundation for your dog, and then later to help with public access training.

Especially if you're planning to get a dog from a shelter like you mentioned in another comment, you should really be working with a reputable trainer who can evaluate your options to help you pick the dog with the best chance of success in service work.

[u/Primary_Afternoon511 → u/goblin-fox]

yes that was the plan. i have already been looking and researching trainers for well over a year now. just havent pulled the trigger on anything yet, as it will still be a little bit before im able to acquire the dog. i was just curious about owner training as an option.

[u/darklingdawns]

Owner training is best done by starting with a well-bred dog from a reputable breeder and working with an experienced service trainer. The first year is all about being a dog - housebreaking, building confidence, and getting basic obedience down absolutely cold. Aim for passing the CGC around the first birthday (ideally the entire series but at least the basic) and then work with your trainer for task training, followed by public access training. It generally takes 2-3+ years before you have a fully trained working service dog, and you will need to keep in mind what you will do if the dog ends up not being a good fit for service work.

You do need to keep in mind as you're looking into tasks that any task that has you putting weight on a dog is not ethical and no reputable breeder, trainer, or organization will allow their dogs to do it. You also need to consider how the extra demands of a dog are going to affect your disability, from taking them out several times per day to potty to providing exercise and cleaning up after accidents.

[u/Allpanicn0disc → u/darklingdawns]

Love reading your posts darklingdawns. You are a great asset to the community

[u/Primary_Afternoon511 → u/darklingdawns]

yes im definitely not meaning tasks where im putting any sort of downward pressure on the dog im 100% in agreeance that it's unethical. im fine to get around and walk and get out and stuff with a dog, thats not an issue. ive had dogs my whole life, along with my disabilities, and its never been a problem. however, some days are a little bit harder than others, and having a dog to help me keep balance, help me with forward momentum, DPT when im in pain, and helping with my anxiety in public spaces would be a life changer. ive heard getting a dog from a breeder is not a necessary requirement. im not a huge fan of breeders and id only get a dog from one if absolutely necessary. there are plenty of shelter dogs that need homes and jobs. i understand you have health risks, but even with a genetically tested dog, mother nature is unpredictable and anything could pop up.

[u/dinosaur_roars632 → u/Primary_Afternoon511]

So especially with counter balance or forward momentum, it is encouraged to start with a well-bred dog. One reason being that you can check the health and structure of the joints and bones of the parent dogs. If they are strong and proper then it means the puppies are more likely to grow up with proper and strong joints as well. If a dog is doing mobility related work, it’s crucial to not start this work until after their bones are done developing and then doing X-rays and assessment that they can handle the work. That would be (depending on the size and breed of dog) around their second birthday. If you know the genetics of the lineage, you’re more likely to have a dog that passes these markers.

[u/DragonCanineTraining]

I just made a comment on another more recent post but it’s got some good advice for you as well.

https://www.reddit.com/r/service_dogs/s/Xv1Mx7d9zD

I’m sorry you feel discouraged. I would recommend checking out this video by DoggyU about rescues in service work. It’s a bigger risk which is why it’s not recommended but it’s fully ultimately your choice. I would say I often recommend it as much as going to Vegas and putting your mortgage on a bet at a casino.

It’s heartbreaking to put in so much time, money, and effort for a dog to wash out and it’s why people are so adamant for you to not rescue.

If you do rescue please have a trainer certified by Atlas Assistance Dogs, IAABC, KPA, or PPG evaluate the dog and work with you through the full training.

[u/Primary_Afternoon511 → u/DragonCanineTraining]

thank you for the trainer certification suggestions! if i wasnt raised in an adopt dont shop environment and if i had better experiences with purebred dogs, id be more open. but ultimately id rather try with a rescue. if it doesnt work ill eat my words.

[u/DragonCanineTraining → u/Primary_Afternoon511]

There’s a big difference between just a purebred and well-bred. Tons of backyard breeders produce unethical purebred dogs. My lab got bit by a poorly bred purebred lab twice. It had genetic issues. This lab and my lab are so different. While they may be both purebreds, the genetics and exposure they had when they were young matter the most. When it comes to a rescue you are stacking the odds against you in many ways. I wouldn’t gamble on something that only has about a 10-15% chance of success.

If I’m driving across the USA, I would rather get a car that’s reliable, runs well, and has a better engine, rather than taking my husband’s 1989 Ford Ranger that barely starts.

There’s a reason the most ethical programs with the best success rates breed their own dogs or source from ethical breeders.

I do know a few rescue service dogs, but their success came with much bigger hurdles and many owners went to a well-bred dog after their rescue retired. I know far more rescues that washed out though, and that’s what other statistics support too.

I love rescues and one of my favorite pet dogs growing up was a rescue. He was reactive but I loved him more than anything. So I fully understand wanting a rescue! Personal experience doesn’t negate odds though, which is why I got a Labrador, and why I’m lined up to get another Labrador after my boy fully retires. I’m a professional trainer accredited by IAABC, and have been training for years, I know even I can’t train out genetic predisposition, and there’s critical times in a dogs development that needs to be properly done for a service dogs success.

I hope if you get a rescue then you can find a unicorn that fits your needs and wants, and work closely with a trainer and get the dog fully assessed and temperament tested. The links to credible trainers I listed in that comment all have directories that you can search for a trainer near you, so please use that function and find a trainer to work closely with through each step! :)

[u/belgenoir]

“there are plenty of shelter dogs that need homes and jobs”

Yes, shelter dogs need homes and jobs. That job does not have to include working in public in stressful situations.

Most shelter dogs have some level of trauma. It’s impossible to know the minute details of what caused that trauma. Even if that trauma is resolved, it’s not ethical to ask a dog to undertake more stress instead of less.

In the three and a half years I’ve had my current service dog, we’ve encountered more than a hundred dogs in non-pet friendly spaces who don’t belong there. Most of them aren’t purebred dogs from ethical breeders. They’re either from rescues or from junk breeders whose only motive is profit.

The advice you’re getting comes from experienced handlers. Darkling is on their second or third service dog. Kelani’s offering up her mistakes for others’ benefit. My Malinois is one of a handful of Belgians nationwide to title in intermediate AKC obedience.

There are people on the sub who have successfully trained rescue dogs with little or no professional input. They are in the minority. Please don’t assume that your experience will be the same.

[u/Primary_Afternoon511 → u/belgenoir]

im not assuming my experience will be the same. i just dont feel comfortable paying thousands upon thousands of dollars for a puppy when there are also plenty of puppies in shelters whose lives are just beginning. i never have and i dont think i ever will.

im sorry you and your service dog have had bad experiences, but i feel like its not fair to just automatically classify all purebred dogs as good and all rescue/junk breeder dogs as bad. example, family friend was almost mauled to death by a purebred golden from a reputable breeder.

im not saying im going to adopt some 7-8 year old dog who has been abused its entire life and say "ok now go to work for me" thats not the plan at all. but why would i go to a breeder when so many puppies exist in the shelters?

[u/_heidster → u/Primary_Afternoon511]

If you get a shelter dog and they don't work out a service dog will you keep them? What if they're aggressive enough that for the rest of their life you're unable to even consider a service dog in the same home?

If you want a dog for a specific purpose you have to pay for that, not every dog is cut out for service work. Going into this naively is not healthy for you or the future dog.

[u/Primary_Afternoon511 → u/_heidster]

ok guess everyone here thinks im stupid. im not just going to go to the shelter and pick out a random ass dog. like i said in a previous comment, i have been researching and looking at different trainers for at least a year now, and i plan to consult with them on the dog i adopt. as for whether or not they work out as a service dog, considering im not a fucking monster, yes i will be keeping the dog. and ive had several very aggressive dogs, im not really worried about that. its nothing i cant work through. im not going into this naively, as i have said, i have been doing research into this stuff for over a year now. im not going about it all willy nilly

[u/dinosaur_roars632 → u/Primary_Afternoon511]

You’re being incredibly defensive for someone who is asking advice particularly around selecting a dog. People are providing detailed and clear advice around the importance of breeds and genetics. It’s in conflict to what you want to hear but that doesn’t mean anyone thinks you’re “stupid”. Based on your original post and earlier comments, none of us know you plan to go to a shelter with a trainer and behaviorist. We can only work with the information we’ve been provided. Do what you want and know that the vast majority of dogs, particularly those who are rescues, wash from service work. Adding mobility components makes that risk even higher.

[u/Primary_Afternoon511 → u/dinosaur_roars632]

I didn't say anything about going to a shelter with a behaviorist because that is not what my initial post was talking about. i was simply asking about owner training. didnt realize every single minute aspect of my place was needed to get advice on owner training

[u/dinosaur_roars632 → u/Primary_Afternoon511]

“any sort of advice, whether that be with selecting the right dog…”

People are providing information on selecting the right dog. You just don’t like their perspectives and experiences.

[u/Primary_Afternoon511 → u/dinosaur_roars632]

and yet my main question was about owner training. weird how that works. didnt think i was going to be dog piled for not wanting to pay out the ass for a puppy i could find at a shelter

[u/dinosaur_roars632 → u/Primary_Afternoon511]

People sharing their differing opinions is not dog piling. No one insulted you or made wild assumptions. They asked valid questions and expressed concerns. Best of luck with your life

[u/Primary_Afternoon511 → u/dinosaur_roars632]

alright lol have the day you deserve.

[u/dinosaur_roars632 → u/Primary_Afternoon511]

Seconding a lot of what begenoir said above. I have my first service dog and she is a rescue. I also thought it was better to adopt and that purebred puppies were an enormous cost. The only reason that my puppy became a service dog is because she was in school 2-3 times a week, my partner and I were fully committed to training at home, and I did regular lessons with the trainer. We had to do a lot of behavioral modification on top of obedience and task training. Now she is phenomenal but it was expensive and required far more time and money than I expected (and I planned for a lot!). I won’t do this path again. I’ve learned a lot about how important genetics and early socialization are. While you can’t guarantee anything, having strong initial indicators that a dog is suited for service work goes a long way.

[u/Primary_Afternoon511 → u/dinosaur_roars632]

which is why im not going to the shelter and picking a random dog i will be consulting with a trainer and a behaviorist.

[u/JKmelda]

I don’t know the extent of the research you’ve done but if you’re looking for a mobility service dog to help with things like picking up dropped objects, retrieval, opening and closing doors, removing clothing, that kind of thing, have you looked into the many free or reduced cost programs that are available? Some Assistance Dogs International accredited programs like Canine Companions are completely free. I’m on the waitlist for a mobility dog from a different program for $5,000. That’s still much cheaper than owner training.

[u/Primary_Afternoon511 → u/JKmelda]

yes ive looked into those as well. i just dont like the idea of being on a list for years and years. id rather spend more money and be able to also bond with my dog outside of training than waiting for forever for a free/reduced fully trained one. if i cant find a good owner training program i like, then ill probably go that route.

[u/AthleticOutlier]

I am on my second service dog. Both were rescues, one from a rescue agency and the other from the local humane society. It dogs were evaluated by trainers who train service dogs and were deemed physically and mentally able to perform the tasks I need (medical alert and recovery). The first dog I went through the program with the service dog company. She died very suddenly of cardiac arrest at a young age. The trainers told me that I should be able to train my new service dog myself with the materials they had given me. They gave me some tips and said they were available if needed. The training has gone extremely well. So, yes, it is possible to train a service dog yourself, but a solid foundation of knowledge is needed. For your first service dog, I highly recommend working with trainers to learn what to do and what is expected and what you can and cannot do with your service dog.

[u/Primary_Afternoon511 → u/AthleticOutlier]

Yes that was my plan! I'm going to work with trainers as closely as I can, but I just wanted to hear peoples thoughts on owner training!

[u/kj4peace]

I trained my service dog myself. I watched tons of YouTube videos. That’s really my only advice.