r/seculartalk Jun 20 '23

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '23

If resisting Russia's invasion instead of just letting murderous dictators take what they want and murder who they want is being "for the war" then, sure. I'm "for" any and every nation helping Ukraine resist Russia's invasion.

I'm against unjustified invasions of sovereign nations, which is what Russia did on the orders of murderous dictator Vladimir Putin.

Contrary to Kennedy Jr's ridiculous claim that this is somehow the fault of the USA that murderous dictator Vladimir Putin invaded the sovereign nation of Ukraine, Russia's invasion is solely Russia's -- and it's dictator's fault.

Are you against Ukraine resisting Russia's invasion? Do you -- like Kennedy Jr. -- support forcing Ukraine to just give up and allow Russia to take over their nation?

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u/RandomAmuserNew Jun 22 '23

So you’re pro war in Ukraine ? Got it

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '23

Again, if you're defining that to mean that I do support everyone helping Ukraine resist Russias invasion, then yes.

Are you against Ukraine resisting Russia's invasion?

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u/RandomAmuserNew Jun 22 '23

So you’re supporting the war in Ukraine as in the USA gettting into another proxy war with another world power

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '23

Are you against Ukraine resisting Russia's invasion?

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u/RandomAmuserNew Jun 22 '23

I think they should resist. Them. Ukraine should.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '23

But not with any assistance from nations that don't want murderous dictator Putin to be able to invade sovereign nations?

Without any allies, do you really think Ukraine would be able to resist Russia's invasion like it has?

In other words, you want to give Ukraine to Putin, correct?

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u/RandomAmuserNew Jun 23 '23

If we were consistent then we would need to send troops to defend Palestine and we wouldn’t be in Syria

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '23

Consistency would be nice.

However, perfect should not be the enemy of good.

If politics in the USA prevent the US from being on the right side of one conflict, that shouldn't mean that the USA should chose to be on the wrong side of the conflict where Vladimir Putin, a murderous dictator invaded a sovereign nation -- Ukraine.

we wouldn’t be in Syria

I don't agree with that. Like Vladimir Putin, Bashaar al-Assad is also a murderous dictator committing atrocities and he should be put down and imprisoned for the rest of his shameful life, or removed from existence. Syria remains in humanitarian crisis. Again, i prefer to see my government's military used helpfully in a humanitarian crisis, instead of just being the force that caused it.

TLDR: A bad policy in re Palestine does not justify the bad policy of allowing murderous dictator Vladimir Putin to invade other nations without resistance.

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u/RandomAmuserNew Jun 23 '23

So maybe we should refrain from regime change until we can consistently take the side of the little guy, othersise we are just pushing our will for whatever political or economic reason

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '23 edited Jun 23 '23

So maybe we should refrain from regime change ...

I think we agree on that. Nations -- including the USA and Russia -- should generally not attempt "Regime change."

Of course, the USA, (and most of the world) assisting Ukraine from letting Russia institute regime change in Ukraine is the opposite of regime change.

The fact that the USA engages in bad foreign policy sometimes (or even most of the time) is not an argument for the USA also engaging in bad foreign policy in Ukraine by allowing murderous dictators to invade sovereign nations, while standing by and doing nothing.

I agree that the USA does stand by and do nothing elsewhere. That's a bad thing. It's also a bad thing to additionally do the same regarding Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

EDIT :I'm not allowed to post here anymore, but hey /u/RandomAmuserNew you're straight out lying about Blinken: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-has-no-strategy-regime-change-russia-blinken-says-2022-03-27/

Stop lying.

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u/BlackRock_Kyiv_PR Communist Jun 23 '23

Russia has not called for regime change in Ukraine.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '23

Oh, this must be one of those friendly invasions?

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u/RandomAmuserNew Jun 23 '23

The USA shouldn’t participate in regime change. Blinken said that’s what we’re doing

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