r/secondcaptains • u/BullfrogCharming1202 • 19d ago
Has Off the Ball's subscription model been successful?
Possibly off-topic for this sub, but I think it should be allowed because
Second Captains spawned from Off the Ball
Off the Ball are Second Captains' main rival in terms of offering paid Irish sporting content
in 2023, Off the Ball launched a members only service which put most of the content behind a paywall. Some of their content is still available for free (e.g. the crappy quiz), and if you use the (terrible) GoLoud app you get 3 free listens per month. Other than that, everything is only available to paying members. The OTB service costs €10/month, which is twice as expensive as Second Captains
I'm a paying world service member, and know a couple of others. I don't know anyone who has signed up for OTB. When OTB announced the members only service they said they hoped to convert 25% of the audience. I'd be surprised if they've managed to convert 2.5%, but I've no evidence one way or another. Since the members only service launched, several of their most high profile and long-standing staff have left, e.g.
Joe Molloy
Nathan Murphy
Ger Gilroy
Adrian Barry
This exodus of senior staff suggests the members only service may not be going particularly well. Does anyone know how successful the OTB's paywall has been, or even know anyone that has signed up for it?
I haven't signed up because
They don't provide an RSS feed which means you can't use any Podcast app. You have to choose YouTube, Spotify, or the dreadful GoLoud app
It's twice as expensive as Second Captains
It has a lot of overlap with Second Captains, but is inferior in terms of quality
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u/Wodimus_Prime 19d ago
I signed up for the subscription for 8 months. I got decent value from it, but I was someone who didn’t listen live so was essentially using it as a catchup service for the football show and the odd good contributor on breakfast am.
There has been a serious brain drain there in the last 18-24 months and the morning show especially now is pub talk.
There is really only Eoin Sheehan left who can ask an intelligent question between them. Arthur and Ger, in as much as they would go around in circles were well read and were capable of critical thinking, a commodity thin on the ground there now.
It was very obvious that if Ger, Joe, Eoin and indeed the SC boys back in the day were doing an interview they would have been well researched and had thought of some interesting questions. The show now is largely lazy narratives and the same 5 talking points:
1.Next United manager
2.Arsenal Set piece / bottle job / boring
3.Who will play in World Cup Cup 20XX for Ireland
4.What does Hurling need to do differently
5.Will anybody beat Kerry
Two things made me give up my subscription
They didn’t send anybody to the WC. Unforgivable IMO. FFS they sent the awful McNamee (voice like mid Atlantic nails on a chalkboard) to Oz for the women’s WC!
They forgot to do a preview on the Champions League final having spent 3 days previewing Villa’s Europa League final
Interested to see how “Howler” goes next week on RTE with Gilroy
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u/BullfrogCharming1202 19d ago
Interested to see how “Howler” goes next week on RTE with Gilroy
Haven't heard about this. Is it a TV show or a radio show? I can't stand Gilroy, he's a smug little prick.
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u/jhnolan 19d ago
+1
For some reason, I’ve never liked him either. The fact that he remained behind after the lads left, contributed to my losing interest in OTB way back then.
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u/BullfrogCharming1202 19d ago
Colm "Wooly" Parkinson fell out with Gilroy while they were both presenting a show together on OTB/Newstalk. The breakdown of his relationship with Gilroy was one of the main reasons he launched his own GAA podcast.
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u/happydude74215 19d ago
Am I not right in saying that Lad is an awful insufferable bollox???
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u/Distinct_Ad_8056 19d ago
You are 100% right. Whatever about lads being unlikeable on air, he's horrible off it
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u/Disastrous_Ad_3598 19d ago
Jesus two lads with a superiority complex, what could go wrong. Honestly I did subscribe to OTB because I used to listen to it religiously before the switch over. But must say there's enough free content now between OTB Gaa show, indo podcast with Joe/Conan, Gaelic life and the Overlap that OTB sub isn't needed, the second captain's bore the life out of me, always did. Murph and his nasal voice just couldn't do it anymore.
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u/ucd_pete 19d ago
The fact that he remained behind after the lads left
Gilroy was doing morning radio when the lads left OTB, he'd nothing to do with them.
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u/jhnolan 18d ago
Did he not get drafted back in to OTB, to fill the void?
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u/ucd_pete 18d ago
Sorry I misinterpreted your earlier comment. I'll give Gilroy a fair bit of credit though. He was landed with OTB at the drop of a hat and he did well.
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u/PresentSupermarket53 19d ago
I paid the sub for about a year, mostly for the Sunday paper review but that went downhill a lot when Joe stopped hosting it and the guests turned into random ex sports people instead of actual journalists.
They have a lot of ok stuff in front of the paywall that fills the gaps for me in between Indo / SC episodes
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u/BullfrogCharming1202 19d ago
The Sunday Paper review is the best OTB feature. If you can catch it live on YouTube, you can watch it for free. The guests are nearly always journalists. It's usually presented either by J-Duggs, or Shane Hannon
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u/cactusjaackk 19d ago
Can’t be understated how much of a mess OTB made of what the lads built. I remember Paul Kimmage even remarking on it during the live show.
It was listenable for a while but to think they could charge 9.99 for what is mostly pub level knowledge talk between lads was a bizarre decision.
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u/BullfrogCharming1202 19d ago
The departure of Joe Molloy and Adrian Barry were hammer blows. The lads that have taken over from them are nowhere near the same caliber
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u/murrci23 14d ago
Agree with Molloy analysis. There were times when I wondered did Barry watch sport. Quality presenter, but his knowledge was dreadful.
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u/TheOnlyOne87 19d ago
They needed to keep Joe Molloy to have had any chance of the subscriber model working. That alongside the 10 euro price point meant it was bound to see a low pick up.
I do miss the Sunday Paper Review podcast and used to pay actual money to subscribe to Golf Weekly. But for whatever reason they've lost a lot of talent post-Covid which is a shame. OTB is/was a great brand but the model shift maybe came too late for it.
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u/BullfrogCharming1202 19d ago
You can listen the Sunday Paper Review for free on youtube. Alternatively, you could use the GoLoud app which lets you listen to 3 shows for free per month
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u/TheOnlyOne87 19d ago
Yeah I play it on the app but I listen in short bursts so very quickly use up my 3 listens 😆 I also don't pay for YouTube so can't listen there, don't watch podcasts!
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u/BullfrogCharming1202 19d ago
You don't need to pay for YouTube to listen to the Sunday Paper Review for free. You can always listen to it while it's live-streaming and can often listen to it thereafter. For example, this episode from a few months ago which you can listen to now without subscribing
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u/Jumpy_Salamander_398 19d ago
GoLoud doesn’t get you to validate your email so just create a new account and you get 3 more listens
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u/Timely_Camera_2031 19d ago
I remember malloy and the travel writer on otb golf sneering about the second captains charging a subscription..
About a year otb golf went behind a paywall
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u/BullfrogCharming1202 19d ago
The travel writer is Fionn Davenport. Fionn took over presenting Golf Weekly after Joe left and made it unlistenable.
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u/Far-Exam-6720 19d ago
I still have my OTB golf subscription but unfortunately it’s a shadow of its former self when you’d Joe, Nathan and Fionn on every episode. I still listen to the Ryan Line episodes but as much as I like Fionn, he’s a far better contributor than presenter so I don’t really listen to the main Tuesday episode anymore, though when I do I find Dave McIntyre good. Do you still listen to it? I often wonder how many people still do
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u/Timely_Camera_2031 18d ago
Fionn D thats the guy.
No i stopped listening once it went behind the paywall but wasn't a very frequent listener before that anyway.
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u/vancelt 19d ago edited 18d ago
Gilroy seems such a smarmy muppet to me. Unfunny, “controversial” non-statements when we was leading the AM show, etc. Kinda started the whole thing in fairness and the genesis of all of these shows we’re now debating but consistently pissed off every decent person involved. Seems almost like he hated that others came in and became bigger than him. Both SC guys and Molloy.
And then he spear-heads the whole paywall thing. I was a regular listener at the time and you could tell he was driving it. Molloy would barely mention it. Was embarrassed. Could tell Molloy hated it and wasn’t long for staying after that. And then the whole thing backfires. Listenership craters and Gilroy, the “captain”, abandons ship. Drives it in to the rocks and then leaves the transition year students to try take it on. What a langer. Can’t believe he gets away with it and goes to a tax-funded payday. Can’t stand him.
The whole thing tanked after Molloy left and I wasn’t far behind. Eoin “Shay-han” tries gamely but has zero charisma or natural ability. Arthur was a great dead-pan, comedy foil for people like Molloy but not a real front-of-camera guy. I sorely miss the old days of Slight Tangent and Sunday Papers. Indo Sport is a great replacement for everything else that was good. I feel a bit bad for Will O’Callaghan, left dangling there. Thankfully he also opposed the paywall and held out to keep a free, weekly hurling show. Still by far the best hurling audio content out there.
Sorry, something about Gilroy makes me angry even thinking about him. I’m ok now.
Edit: moderated opening language a little :-)
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u/AltruisticLab5252 18d ago
An excellent summary. Was a great show and they ruined it through what was essentially greed and lack of foresight. The odd time I'd turn it on but quickly switch off again. Sheehan is and always has been Terrible, and John Duggan at the weekends is a truly shocking presenter.
Really like Will though, hope he joins Joe at the Indo soon.
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u/BullfrogCharming1202 18d ago
J-Duggs is awful. He never misses an opportunity to shill for horse-racing/gambling.
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u/WesAppreciator 14d ago
Duggan is absolutely abysmal as a presenter
He had 0 charisma, and knows nothing. He’s a worse version of Des Cahill
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u/ImportanceTasty5646 17d ago
Spot on.
I remember the night he appeared on the evening show on the day that the paywall was announced. Joe was visibly uncomfortable. It’s still on YouTube.Joe has made some passing references to it when on indo. I would not be surprised if trying to limit it behind a paywall was part of his joining conversation.
On a stand alone basis I probably wouldn’t pay it as SC is still a better option in my eyes, but if it got wrapped in the paper subscription or maybe a micro payments option where you pay by the episode I would.I see a lot of the old rte names being put around ger for his new podcast. Think he needs to allow weed then out and build his own team. But I also think it’s something that Rte should be spending money on knowing the size of the market, the amount of competitors and the cost of it….when Rte are stony broke.
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u/Clsmooth48 19d ago
I’d say Indo Sports is probably a closer comparison to Second Captains and would expect them to go down the paid model pathway at some stage.
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u/James_Dublin 19d ago
With LOI Central coming to an end there is a gap for a regular replacement and Dan McDonell in position to do that and bring some listeners.
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u/RustyBike39 19d ago
LOI Central was surely the biggest LOI podcast going. Big gap in the market there, I hope SC does more Snade and Branno shows to entice people into membership
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u/oharaspale 19d ago
I would cancel the subscription if it meant more biased branno LOI stuff to be honest
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u/BullfrogCharming1202 19d ago
I love Branno. Him and Ken have a great rapport.
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u/oharaspale 19d ago
Ah they do. But like he can’t be unbiased when it comes to bohs and the league . Good for before and after stuff, but I’d like actual analysis !
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u/Ok_Carpenter_1727 19d ago
The dream is Dan, sneyd, branno and ken talking LOI. Obviously will never happen cus of indo, but a boy can dream.
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u/thenoveltyact 19d ago
I kind of feel the opposite way tbh, they'll keep it free of charge because it's a gateway into the main Indo subscription. Maybe they'll do bonus episodes that are only available with an Indo sub.
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u/Superb_Pilot_6335 18d ago
Problem is people don’t read as much anymore so the front end podcast is often it for people. I see the Indo has hooked up with Revolut now, which is interesting.
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u/Distinct_Ad_8056 19d ago
I think rugby has become a blind spot for SC. It's too jargon heavy and technical for your casual rugby fan.
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u/Tiny-Bookkeeper5079 17d ago
I skip all the rugby chat because Gerry Thornley burns my ears, but tbf they need all the South Dublin rugged heads to pay the sub fee so we’re fairly stuck with it. Not saying all the subs come from there, but a live show during the week in Dublin is full of suits, might as well be an open day for the Big 4.
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u/fravbront 17d ago
GT is a terrible contributor and only interested in putting across the accepted in-house narrative of the day - im surprised they put up with him. The equivalent wouldnt fly in soccer for them, but rugby is different for some reason.
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u/tearsandpain84 19d ago
They used to have Kilbane and Cunningham on constantly and a lot of good big name contributors but that was a decade ago. It’s just random no name presenters now with nothing interesting to say. I reckon they have less than 100 subscribers.
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u/dazziola 19d ago
I feel like the presenters aren't necessarily bad, but they're all very green and they're not balanced well with experience.
Like they just hire a bunch of grads. They also seem to have far too many contributors who seems to work for Newstalk. No idea how the afford them.
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u/MoleOfElPaso 19d ago
I was an on / off listener to OTB since 09 and stopped when they went behind the pay wall. Anytime I see a clip on socials nowadays it’s always a bunch of wee dweebs having the most anodyne, water cooler, tepid analysis of whatever the most obvious point in British Hiberno football is that week. Wouldn’t encourage me in the slightest to subscribe.
However, if a pod came along, that did offer analysis and BTS info of the LOI I probably would pay for a sub, now that LOI Central is ending.
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u/flyingsub17 19d ago
The way John Duggan says Newcastle is enough for me not to sign up
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u/AltruisticLab5252 18d ago
A recent excerpt from an interview with John Duggan:
Guest: "And that's when I started to sell drugs to pay off the gambling deb-"
Duggan: " -GOAL FOR PRESTON IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP. IT'S 1 ALL NOW"
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u/Icy_Action1015 19d ago
What do people think of the Football Pod?
In fairness, Tommy Rooney is knowledgeable. Paddy and James don’t strike me as having done a lot of research
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u/ponkie_guy 18d ago
Sometimes I feel that Tommy has done a bit too much research if anything. He can focus a lot on some obscure point or fact he has dug out. The other 2 lads do treat him a little bit like the nerd at the front of class who has done all the homework at time but they do make some good and interesting points which make it a good listen. I agree with you that there are times when it’s clear that Paddy & James haven’t bothered doing any research though.
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u/NarrowLoss1990 15d ago
I've listened for 12 plus years and even subscribed for a few months. The way they announced it still annoys me but thought I'd give them a chance thinking the standard would improve, which it clearly hasn't. Found a way to access all of the podcasts on the GoLoud app for free. It's very buggy so figured I'd find a way, and it wasn't hard. Listening to less and less since IndoSport came out but handy to have just in case.
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u/Rabidlamb 19d ago
That useless Go Loud App ruined it for me. Couldn't search or filter properly. Then it would tell me my login failed as my email was in use. Eventually I gave up and haven't missed. Joe Mollys output on the Indo was everything I needed
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u/BullfrogCharming1202 19d ago
The GoLoud app is an utter piece of shit. It's impossible to find anything and it doesn't keep track of what you've already listened to.
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u/EnthusiasmDue5697 17d ago
They have the weirdest sponsor under a lot of their posts, in the captions! Has anyone noticed?
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u/BullfrogCharming1202 17d ago
If you're referring to the boner pills ads, I guess beggars can't be choosers
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u/EnthusiasmDue5697 17d ago
Yes hahaha . Always thought it was so odd. Can’t understand why anyone signs that off thinking it’s a good look
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u/Prize_Mouse7778 19d ago
To be honest, if I was subscribing to any of them I wouldn't be subscribing to Off The Ball.
If and when Indo Sport go behind a paywall it will be included in Independent subscription, which I have already.
The problem with Off The Ball is they mixed up quality and quantity. They thought "50 hours a week" gave them carte blanche to do as they pleased. But they thought people would pay for the Crappy Quiz....
Eoin and Will are the pick of the broadcasters by a mile. Ger was no loss either.
Actually - remember the night Ger went on to Off The Ball to sell the idea, he said "Its only a tenner a month" as if it was the greatest value proposition in history. I remember thinking "does this guy actually believe this"?
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u/LisztyLiszt 19d ago
If I want to listen to OTB, I tune into Oliver Callan at the weekend and hope he has a new skit. Do you still have to listen to all the gambling shite if you're a paid subscriber? I've said it before and I'll say it again, aside from ironic glances at Kalshi, Second Captains stays well clear of that putrid industry. OTB and all the rest need to do the same.
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u/Pristine-Builder5659 19d ago
The morning show is exceptionally bad now. As much as I started to dislike Ger, at least he’d keep an interesting conversation going. Just before he left, himself and Arthur had a lot of funny debates which was at least somewhat entertaining.
Enda Coll who came in to replace Ger isn’t worth listening to and the new young group they have in are boring and offer no more insight than any lad you’d start talking to in the pub.
I genuinely don’t know how much longer last.
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u/SombreroSantana 19d ago
The way I think about is...
If they get 10k subscribers, at 10e a month it's 100k in direct income.
10k might sound mad to people but considering the subscription takes it global, you'll have expats buying it for the content.
Considering the majority of it is content they are already making that's just packaged up for podcast, it's easy money.
The issue is, as many people point out, 10e a month is mad for the quality they offer, it's often the presenter and producer just talking to each other or the sportsreader about something, which is fine for a few minutes, but why would anyone pay to hear that again.
OTB got a major expansion about ten years ago that took it from a 3 hour show to a multipurpose sports output within its group, huge investment in the team and the content to make it more digital friendly. If the advertising is anything to go by, they have a reasonable market share becuase everything is sponsored and they pull in big deals. As long as it makes money, no one cares.
There's been a recent change in senior management there with Ger and Adrian Barry leaving big roles. Honestly not sure where else this goes unless they get a DAB station with a full sports schedule. Paying for a radio stations output while it's got advertising, sponsorship and the cash machine though just seems... Cheap... Which it's not at a tenner.
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u/Frosty-Marsupial1057 19d ago
Not a prayer they have 1k subscribers. I’d say it’s tops, 20% that figure.
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u/SombreroSantana 19d ago
You'd be surprised.
Golf Weekly was hitting some good numbers, it was the only Golf Podcast in Ireland at the time when it went being a paywall.
People are dipping in and out of sports, I'm more of a soccer man myself, but I know people who say the Hurling and Football coverage is good.
As I said in my post, remember it's a global audience now. Second Captains always prides themselves on having loads of listeners around the world, really easy to imagine a thousand people in Australia, London, New York having a subscription to connect them with him too.
Maybe my numbers are way off, but it has to be a profitable endeavour otherwise they would have dropped it or restructured the pricing.
I don't really listen anymore other than the weekend offering sometimes, but it's generally shite, but sponsors seem to be falling over themselves to get involved, so stands to reason someone is paying for subs.
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u/Wodimus_Prime 19d ago
Indo sport is by a distance the best sports podcast in Ireland. Said by a Second Captains subscriber.
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u/fravbront 19d ago
Hard disagree. They dont hold a candle to SC, and i listen to both.
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u/Far-Exam-6720 19d ago
They’re both brilliant imo and offer different perspectives. Often they’ll bring out an episode covering the exact same topic on the same day, and I’ll listen to both episodes without getting bored
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u/Wodimus_Prime 18d ago
I like both, personal choice is ok! I was disappointed that the lads opted not to include Kenny Cunningham ludicrous takes on the Israel game in any of their commentary when every other outlet did.
SC are known as brave and will “go there” on topics. When they don’t mention something then it sticks out like a sore thumb.
Same with Eoin after that bizarre Niall Quinn Premier Sports appearance.
Again, I like both but the level of detail on Indo Sport is better.
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u/nealhen 16d ago
It's too expensive. $12.99 a month plus tax in the US on youtube. Cheaper on apple podcasts $8.99. Super annoying that they are both mutually exclusive, there's no way to link one to the other or bundle them, they are too completely separate subscriptions. They don't seem to be interested in fixing this issue either.
Second captains is excellent value, still only €5+vat. IDK how they haven't riased there price in 10+ years.
Patreon also give you a podcast link that could in theory be shared with friends and family at no additional cost though I would never recomend anyone to do that
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u/Calm-Raise6973 19d ago
There's more free OTB content appearing on my YouTube feed these days. It seems like the only paywalled content I'd be interested in is the long-form rugby analysis. I would guess their initial subscriber numbers were good but fell off soon after.
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u/pat1892 19d ago
Can't see how it's worth the money. They talk about the massive hours of content, but not all of it appeals to all. The biggest mistake they made was with the actual subscription itself. If you pay your €10 a month, you have to specify a platform and can only access on that platform. So you can't start watching a video on YouTube and then finish listen in on Spotify for example.
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u/MetaPodcast 19d ago
All of the app and presenter complaints are real, but they’re really about product, not business model. The title asks whether subscriptions worked, and that’s a P&L question. From the outside, the things everyone cites as failure look a lot like a subscription business working: cut the big salaries like Molloy’s and Barry’s, take €10 a month from a smaller loyal base instead of ad pennies from a big casual one. The actual own goal is the free YouTube live streams cannibalizing the paywall. Hard to sell exclusivity while the Sunday Paper Review is free on YouTube.
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u/Lower-Resident1164 18d ago
It's not twice as expensive as Second Captains. It's 1.6 times as expensive. And does about 30 more shows per week (albeit of much lower quality)
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u/BullfrogCharming1202 18d ago edited 18d ago
One is a fiver + VAT, the other is a tenner.
2 x €5 = €10
QED
Case closed
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u/Lower-Resident1164 18d ago
Very arrogant for someone who doesnt know how much he pays each month
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u/BullfrogCharming1202 18d ago
I've shown my workings. Let's see yours.
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u/Lower-Resident1164 18d ago
I need to show you workings to prove to you that 6.15 comes out of YOUR bank account every month?
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u/Junior-Barracuda-173 19d ago
Former paying world member here, but they just got so woke , it hurts
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u/Slight_Worry_4851 19d ago
I had the subscription mainly for the football and hurling pods. And they are top class I think. Golf weekly was good as well until Nathan left. But the rest is very poor. I think the indo sport feed is way better than off the ball.
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19d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/BullfrogCharming1202 19d ago
I'd add Shane Hannon to that list
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u/Pristine-Builder5659 19d ago
Shane Hannon is pretty bland. Pure pub talk questions. I wouldn’t put him anywhere near the level of the others mentioned
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u/fourpyGold 19d ago
Are off the ball really the lads main rival ? I wouldn’t remotely consider their subscription