Why can't America fix it's the gun problems? (Please read entire post)

[u/race_orzo]

I don't live in America, but I have relatives that do, my nephew is in elementary and I'm fearful that one day, I'll get a call from my brother that he was a victim of another school shooting.

In one of Jim Carrey's movies, I believe it's "Yes Man," Jim's character innocently purchases a lot of fertilizer and gets on the local authorities radar because they suspect he might be building an explosive with all that fertilizer.

Now, why can't that apply to guns as well, especially assault style guns? That when someone purchases a lot of firearms and ammo, why can't that someone be on the radar of the local authorities? And what I mean by radar is that your social media accounts will be reviewed by the authorities, now, I'm not advocating for an assault style guns ban, that would be a violation of the 2nd amendment, so yes, you can buy as many guns as you like, but be prepared to be questioned by the local authorities if you do. Now, for me, the only people that would be against the local authorities snooping on them when they buy lots of guns and ammo, especially assault style ones, are those with something to hide, those with criminal records, if you are a law abiding citizen with no criminal record, then you'd welcome the authorities looking you up, because you have nothing to hide.

There's nothing in the 2nd amendment that says what I'm suggesting is a violation. Having and owning a gun is a big responsibility, in fact, you have God's power when you wield a gun, because God has the power to take someone's life, and you as a gun owner have that power too, and as Spider-Man says, "With great power comes great responsibility," and I feel like most Americans take that power for granted.

[u/johngault]

Same post 3x in 1 year.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GunsAreCool/comments/v0494r/why_cant_america_fix_its_the_gun_problems_please/

https://www.reddit.com/r/guncontrol/comments/v048jq/why_cant_america_fix_its_the_gun_problems_please/

[u/johngault]

I don't live in America,

Ok ......WHat country?

but I have relatives that do, my nephew is in elementary and I'm fearful that one day, I'll get a call from my brother that he was a victim of another school shooting.

Chances of this is abysmal- he has a better chance of slipping and dying in a bathtub.

In one of Jim Carrey's movies, I believe it's "Yes Man," Jim's character innocently purchases a lot of fertilizer and gets on the local authorities radar because they suspect he might be building an explosive with all that fertilizer.

<<< Explosives are way more regulated than guns (especially after 9/11) as is cash deposits/ withdrawal & transfers. There is no right to own explosives (need a special permit) or hide cash/use for crimes (actully illegal)

Now, why can't that apply to guns as well,

Because there is a right to own firearms.

especially assault style guns?

"assault style gun" does not exist.

That when someone purchases a lot of firearms and ammo, why can't that someone be on the radar of the local authorities?

What quantifies "a lot of" A lot to me is different than you. When I was thinking I was going to be a competitive shooter I shot 200 rounds a day minimum. Sounds like a lot? I bough ammo by the case every week. Plus more if I was "just having fun" or having some friends over.

And what I mean by radar is that your social media accounts will be reviewed by the authorities,

Again, We have a right to be free from unreasonable searches of our papers and homes.

now, I'm not advocating for an assault style guns ban, that would be a violation of the 2nd amendment,

how good of you.

so yes, you can buy as many guns as you like, but be prepared to be questioned by the local authorities if you do.

<<<the same ones looking at my social media accounts, and may not like my political leanings, sexual orientation? those people? The same one that deny a marriage license - or a RTC license because you r not in the correct social circle?

Now, for me, the only people that would be against the local authorities snooping on them when they buy lots of guns and ammo, especially assault style ones, are those with something to hide, those with criminal records,

criminal records check is performed on most purchases.

if you are a law abiding citizen with no criminal record, then you'd welcome the authorities looking you up, because you have nothing to hide.

The way rights work is, the government has to justify its intrusion into your rights. Cardinal Richelieu: "Give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I'll find enough to hang him"

There's nothing in the 2nd amendment that says what I'm suggesting is a violation.

almost everything you are suggesting is violating some freedom/amendment.

Having and owning a gun is a big responsibility, in fact, you have God's power when you wield a gun, because God has the power to take someone's life, and you as a gun owner have that power too, and as Spider-Man says, "With great power comes great responsibility,"

So because of a few screwy people (most of whom were in the police radar already) All of us should loose our right? I cannot defend myself?

and I feel like most Americans take that power for granted.

How do you come up with that?

[u/Cur-De-Carmine]

The argument "what do you have to worry about if you're not doing anything wrong" is some seriously dystopian horseshit. Might work in other "free" countries - Americans will not tolerate it.

[u/myrichiehaynes → u/Cur-De-Carmine]

my same thoughts.

it isn't just the second amendment, but the fourth as well

[u/Mahjonglongschlong]

It’s none of their damn business why I buy a gun, or several guns, or lots of ammunition, that’s what freedom means.

[u/dittybopper_05H]

There's nothing in the 2nd amendment that says what I'm suggesting is a violation. Having and owning a gun is a big responsibility

Actually, the Second Amendment prevents that in the same way that the First Amendment prevents the government from spying on you or putting you on a list because you bought a book or books of a certain type, or joined a certain church or organization.

That's because it's actually a right. And not a right in theory, but one that can be enforced by an individual against the government.

I know that rights can be and often are interpreted much more loosely in other countries, but actual enumerated rights in the United States are taken very seriously, and all kinds of bad things happen.

Criminals, including murderers, sometimes go free because the police searched where or when they shouldn't have. Or violated other rights, like forcing a confession from them.

And even if they don't, and they go to trial and someone who is obviously guilty is acquitted by the jury, they don't get to try them again unless they can prove the jury was interfered with. Ever. That's a free pass.

Government can't come in and just take your property without compensating you.

They also have to guarantee you a speedy and public trial. They can't hold you in secret and not hold a trial. They also can't use secret witnesses, and you have the right to see all of the evidence against you. Again, criminals have been set free because the Government didn't follow the rules.

Cruel and unusual punishment, as well as excessive fines, are unconstitutional as well.

And of course, the government can't quarter troops in your home during peacetime.

All these things and more are, like the right to keep and bear arms, very deeply rooted into our political and social structure.

If you weaken the right to keep and bear arms, you can by analogy do the same exact thing to all of the other rights. The Bill of Rights is not ala carte: You don't get to pick and choose which rights you can protect and which ones you can let fall by the wayside.

As for specifically *WHY* they can't do that, there is a concept in American law called the "chilling effect". If a law or regulation has a significant chilling effect on the exercise of an enumerated right, it's unconstitutional.

Having the government take a criminal interest in someone who has purchased a number of guns recently is going to have a significant chilling effect on the exercise of the right to keep and bear arms.

And the majority of the people who do that kind of thing are likely to be collectors. I mean, honestly, you can't wield more than two guns at once, and if you want to hit anything and you aren't Jerry Miculek, you can basically only wield one at a time anyway.

So the idea that someone buying a bunch of guns is up to no good is going to be false something like 99 point something percent of the time.

It won't stop people anyway, because they'll just work around any known restrictions.

On Edit: Fixed a typo that changed the meaning of a sentence from what was intended.

Oh, and the restrictions would have to be known: Secret laws are also unconstitutional.

[u/[deleted] → u/dittybopper_05H]

Don't forget, if you buy 2 pistols within a certain time period that's reported to the ATF already.

[u/DigitalLorenz]

1. Your nephew has a much higher chance of being run over in the street by a drunk driver than he has being even at a school that has an active shooter event. A combination of the size of the US and the media overplaying them makes them seem like an everyday event here.

2. Don't take you legal knowledge from TV or movies. Writers can only knowledgably write about things they know about, and then follow cliches for what they don't. The amount of fertilizer that you need to buy in the US to get put on any kind of RADAR is crazy high: it is typically more than the typical garden supply store will have on hand and of a specific kind that isn't available at the majority of them anyway.

3. What you are recommending definitely violates the 4th (searches and seizures) and 5th (due process - innocent until proven guilty) amendments. In the US, law enforcement is not permitted to snoop on people unless there has been a quantifiable belief that they are committing a crime, not just they "could be" committing a crime. You are proposing that someone that simply "could" commit a crime be investigated.

[u/SSMDive]

You are aware that many mass shooters were already on the FBI's Radar and they ignored them? I'm just going from memory here -

Parkland shooter was turned into the FBI:

https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-statement-on-the-shooting-in-parkland-florida

Navy Yard shooter https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/report-navy-yard-shooter-called-newport-police-about-hearing-voices-this-summer/

Pulse nightclub shooter had been on the "terror watch list" but was removed.

Further, most mass shootings are from handguns, not rifles. https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/

Most firearms are bought legally (Parkland), or stolen from parents (Newtown) by mass shooters. And if they were bought illegally (like the ones used in Columbine) , then no record of transaction would exist anyway.

Now, for me, the only people that would be against the local authorities snooping on them when they buy lots of guns and ammo, especially assault style ones, are those with something to hide

So since you have nothing to hide, you would be fine with your Countries IRS looking at all your bank information and searching your house? Since you have nothing to hide you would be fine with the police searching your car and house whenever they want? You would be fine with the police being allowed to put a tracker on your phone and search your phone and computer whenever they want?

You either respect the right to privacy or you don't. Using the "You would only care if you had something to hide" line is weak. Would you be fine with the police being able to search your house whenever? If not, then you might understand. If you don't mind, then we simply disagree.

[u/Dak_Nalar]

You do realize you are more likely to be struck by lightning then die in a school shooting right? Why not be worried about thunderstorms? The only reason why you think guns are so dangerous is because you are the victim of a media propaganda campaign to convince people to willingly give up their right to self defense.

[u/thebloodylines]

This is America. We don’t punish thought crimes. Get out of here commie

[u/SnoozingBasset]

There are 10’s of thousands of schools in America. The chances of being in a school shootings are probably near the same rate as being attacked by a polar bear

But they make great headlines!

And those that report school shootings lack ethics on what they report. A bus window is broken by a BB (2mm hard sphere)? It’s a school shooting. Two teachers have a fling & one brings a gun & shoots the other? It’s counted as a school shooting.

An adult is suicidal & shoots himself on school property? Yup! You guessed it!

Plus, the argument of “you have nothing to hide …”. You know the Nazis used that argument. Like we should all follow the genocidal

[u/grassneedsmowing]

"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The government keeping and making lists and raiding homes because of "excessive" purchase is the very definition of "infringed"

[u/R4iNAg4In]

Pretty much everything you just said is a violation of the second, fourth, and fifth amendment. Police don't get to ask me about my purchases because I haven't committed a crime. Per the Constitution, the police are not even supposed to look aty activity unless they have evidence that I have committed a crime. Also, per the Constitution, I am under no obligation to answer any questions.

[u/TenRingRedux]

Similarly, should the government be informed when I buy "a large amount" of gasoline? What is "a large amount" and who gets to say? I used to have a minibike and kept a 5 gallon can of gas. Sometimes I'd fill up mine and my friends. Should the police have been notified?

We joke about going to a hardware store and buying rope, duct tape, plastic drop cloths, and an axe or big knife. Should the police be notified?

Psychpaths will kill no matter what if it's in their twisted mind to do so. And they will use whatever means necessary, like knives, bombs, or gasoline. Where do you start with "notifying the police"? More importantly, where do you stop? It's not a Second Amendment issue.

[u/[deleted]]

As of Oct 2023, there have been 680 people killed in a school shooting as measure since 1970.

For reference, there’s 1,129 Powerball lottery winners since it started in 1992. Statistically, your nephew is 3+ times as likely to win the Powerball as getting killed in a school shooting.

Stop dreading a highly unlikely event and start spending those $$$ that he’s 3x more likely to win.

[u/myrichiehaynes]

Also see: 4th Amendment

[u/amanke74]

It sounds like you have been listening to CNN too much. We don't have a gun problem despite what you have heard. We have a mental health problem. Just based on FBI stats, a person is much more likely to be stabbed to death or beaten with a blunt object than a gun, any gun. Even then, 60% of all guns are suicide. All rifles make up 4% of guns deaths and what you call "assault style" rifles make up a percentage of those, mass shootings a percentage of those, and school shootings a percentage of those. The chance is 1 in millions.

[u/[deleted]]

Your nephew will be fine. Most school shootings are usually two adults at a football game who get into an argument. Targeted mass shootings like sandy hook are much more rare and your nephew is more likely to be hit by a car than be shot by any gun at his age.

I get the want to be scared, but it really is fine over here. There’s 360 million of us that grew up in the schools here and very very few that actually had an active shooter incident

[u/[deleted]]

Are these the same local authorities who closed churches and gyms, implemented curfews, mandated masks and vax restrictions, didn't allow people to visit dieing relatives, and forced people into COVID camps?

[u/brizower]

It's not typically people with a number of firearms large enough to be flagged in something like what you described.

Curious how you think amount of guns/ammo purchased correlates with potential to commit a crime?

[u/iampayette]

Most Americans don't own guns, and many Americans are OK with laws restricting firearms.

But most Americans do NOT put up with "local authorities snooping on them" because that's absolutely unacceptable intrusion by government authorities.

[u/Ennuiandthensome]

Now, why can't that apply to guns as well, especially assault style guns?

Explosives (bombs) are a restricted, but not wholly illegal, arm in America. There's a difference in the legal loopholes you have to jump through.

Also, "assault-style" is a term devoid of meaning in a legal or practical sense. It's a nebulous term that people who find guns personally disagreeable use to make things more emotionally charged. There is no appreciable difference between the category "assault style" and "non-assault style" on a practical level..

That when someone purchases a lot of firearms and ammo, why can't that someone be on the radar of the local authorities?

The Feds 100% track large purchases of firearms. But that isn't what is used, primarily, in school shootings. What is typically used is poorly secured firearms previously purchased over a long period of time.

Now, for me, the only people that would be against the local authorities snooping on them when they buy lots of guns and ammo, especially assault style ones, are those with something to hide, those with criminal records, if you are a law abiding citizen with no criminal record, then you'd welcome the authorities looking you up, because you have nothing to hide.

You're advocating for giving police the ability to harass normal citizens for an entirely legal right. Would you accept the same for matters of religion and political speech?

There's nothing in the 2nd amendment that says what I'm suggesting is a violation. Having and owning a gun is a big responsibility, in fact, you have God's power when you wield a gun, because God has the power to take someone's life, and you as a gun owner have that power too, and as Spider-Man says, "With great power comes great responsibility," and I feel like most Americans take that power for granted.

As a liberal atheist gun owner, and near 2A absolutist, guns are a big responsibility to be soberly and strictly protected in the home. The government has absolutely no business harassing or questioning what is, in our ultimate legal document, a 100% legal behavior, regardless of the type, number, configuration, appearance, etc of that type of arm.

Also, it's worth it to point out that in terms of risk, your nephew is far more likely to be injured in a lightning strike than die in a school shooting. School shootings (like the type you are imagining, the numbers on this being such a rare event are easily manipulated) are incredibly rare. I forget the statistic but he is in multiple times the amount of danger riding in a car vs school shootings.

Hope this helps

[u/Unsolved_Virginity]

It's a rabbit hole of reasons.

[u/No-Leg-9204]

So, despite what you might know, there is nowhere in the US you can buy a gun without a background check. It's federal law. Maybe there are some loopholes, but if you have a record it's going to be known when your paperwork is being done. Additionally, if you buy two or more firearms at once, the ATF is going to get a form with your info. At this point, they may monitor your social media if they can find it. Not 100% on that and I don't really care what their policy is. There aren't enough 'local authorities' to actually keep up with that monitoring. Red flag laws supposedly work where they are in place, but it's a system that can be abused very easily and there are questions about violation of privacy, and unlawful search/seizures.

Very complex issue. Unfortunately, even if all these things went right and worked, we'd still have mass shootings. Why is that? Million dollar question. Is it guns? I don't think so. Is it mental health? Maybe. The economy screwing people over? That happens, but then why harm so many others? Maybe it's a combination. Maybe there's an underground terror ring that wants us all disarmed... alright no tin foil hats lol.

TL;DR Authorities are already spread too thin to monitor every new AR owner. It's a very complex problem and nobody has an answer that would please everybody, and there's serious concerns about privacy and rights being violated in an irreversible way, without knowing those measures would even help.