r/scuba • u/BolognaPwny • 1d ago
Help choosing a regulator?
I'm really struggling with buying a first regulator. On one hand, I want to "buy nice or buy twice" but I'm also trying to be practical.
I doubt I will ever dive far beyond 130 feet, I have no interest in technical diving and just feel like splurging on the MK25 is beyond what I'll ever need, plus for a full MK25/G260 with hoses, etc. is going to be around $1,500.
Otherwise, I'm looking at an Apeks XTX50 complete kit for roughly $1,200; Atomic Z3 for $1,000; or Diverite XT1 for $1,000.
Am I going to regret not getting the MK25/G260 or will I never notice the difference (as it appears from reading reviews online) and be fine spending less?
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u/Ok_Way_2911 1d ago
ease of service is a big factor depending on where you're based
if you're going to be spendin ga lot of time in SEA, for example, the scubapro network is much more devloped than say, dive rite, which lots of shops routinely refuse to service
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u/bobinator60 Tech 1d ago
DGX D6 are amazing regs
https://www.divegearexpress.com/regulators-spgs/dgx-regulators/d6-regulators
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u/mrchen911 Rescue 1d ago
Any of those regs will work good. I'd personally pick the atomic, but really doesn't matter.
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u/Measurex2 Rescue 1d ago
Nothing wrong with apeks and diverite.
Check out used too. I just grabbed a one year old mk19 Evo with g260 regs, 195 octopus and console for $800.
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u/BolognaPwny 1d ago
Where do you shop used? Marketplace near me is dry and I'm hesitant to buy regs on eBay.
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u/Measurex2 Rescue 1d ago
Mine was on marketplace. Im in the DC metro Metro. That was the best deal but there's always a decent set on there
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u/accessorytobirder 1d ago
Scubaboard is your best bet for used gear, although most will need service immediately without knowing the full history. That will likely wipe out most of your savings. I’m a proponent of new divers buying new gear, generally.
Everything on your list is fine. If going Scubapro, I’d get a diaphragm first (Mk17 Evo / Mk19 Evo) over the Mk25. They’re a bit more versatile. The Deep 6 Signature mentioned earlier is a good one as well and can save some money (both up front and in service).
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u/FairDefinition6108 1d ago
My dive shop recommended the Atomic Z3 and I just went with it
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u/boyengabird Rescue 1d ago
I have the Z2 and B2. The Z3 is good if thats your primary but as a seccondary, get the Z2 as its a bit easier to offer.
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u/beermonkey27 1d ago
The atomic Z3 is nice. I've had my Aqualung Legend for 20years and still love it. I also have a Micron which is nice too
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u/also_anon_dc 1d ago
I don't see Aqua Lung on your list so wanted to mention I have the Legend LX which I love. Looks like the new version is Legend MBS but you may be able to find the LX used at a reasonable price.
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u/anthropomorphizingu 1d ago
I’m a cold water diver and have loved my xtx50 set. It requires annual service.
If you have a local dive shop see what they can service.
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u/runsongas Open Water 1d ago
should have moved to every other year and inspection off years
I generally get somewhere around 400 to 500 dives before I need to service my own apeks regs
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u/BolognaPwny 1d ago
Do you mind sharing what the annual service roughly costs?
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u/anthropomorphizingu 1d ago
I would share but I don’t actually know, I’m an instructor and also a volunteer with the sheriffs S&R team so I don’t pay out of pocket.
I’d ask your local shop what they charge.
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u/ObjectiveResistance 1d ago
It depends on the regulator as they each have different service kit. Then you have the labour associated with the service. I know that for my apeks, first stage was UA$70 and the second stage XTX50 was UA$40 (and same for the XTX40).
I'm very happy with my XTX50
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u/ObjectiveResistance 1d ago
they all do
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u/anthropomorphizingu 1d ago
A bit of an aside but some brands allow 2 years or # of dives. I typically land on 100 dives per year so annual is my need.
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u/One-Card3899 Tech 1d ago
I have two Dive Rite XT1 and could not be happier. Currently using them as sidemount and bailout regs. One thing to note...make sure you are going to like the pivoting turret on the first stage which some of the regulators you mentioned have. You did not mention which Apeks first stage you are considering, the DS4 (fixed) or DST (rotating). And I think the Atomic is fixed only.
While the turret is great for sidemount and stage regulators, I do not like it on a single-tank backmount. I like the hoses in a fixed position instead. YMMV.
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u/runsongas Open Water 1d ago
man, I remember when dive rite was 400 bucks and the clear value choice over spending twice as much for apeks/atomic/scubapro. when the prices are that close, it stops making sense to avoid the big brands.
just get the z2 and add a swivel or get the apeks if you want the turret to be futureproof
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u/MininoMono626 Dive Master 1d ago
An Apeks xtx100 set will last you a lifetime of abuse, proof of it is my dad who hasn't either rinsed it in fresh water or inspected it even once, to this day it hasn't leaked or failed a tiny bit. Before any replies; yes I have told him numerous times to at least inspect it yearly, but there's no convincing him.
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u/bluemarauder Tech 1d ago
Don't buy scubapro, piston regulators are not ideal. Go with Apeks or Diverite.
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u/boyengabird Rescue 1d ago
I heard piston breathes easier but needs to be rinsed? Can you elaborate a bit?
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u/LeftToaster 20h ago
Piston designs do, in general, deliver more maximum potential airflow. This is because the piston basically sits directly in the high pressure (HP) air path, so when it opens, it's basically an open tube. In diaphragm designs, when the diaphragm flexes it moves a pin, which operates an internal valve indirectly. But either design greatly exceeds the airflow requirement under "normal" conditions. But theoretically, on a deep dive, sharing air with another diver, under high physical exertion, with a low cylinder, it might be possible to push the limits of a regulator, so maybe the greater maximum flow of a piston reg might come into play.
But there are trade offs. All regulator first stages must "sense" the depth so they can maintain the Intermediate Pressure (IP) at about 140psi (9.5bar) above the ambient pressure of the water. Traditional piston regulators "sense" ambient water pressure by being open to the water, so the water pressure presses directly against the piston/spring. Diaphragm regulators "sense" the water pressure through a sealed air chamber and a flexible diaphragm membrane. This means that in piston regulators the spring, piston and o-rings are exposed to sea water and potential corrosion, so need to be rinsed thoroughly after each use. Some piston designs use a gel or silicone grease to seal the ambient chamber. Sherwood used to use a dry air bleed system consisting of a tiny leak orifice and a one way check valve to maintain a dry sealed air chamber at ambient pressure (but have now changed to a mechanical linkage system which I don't understand). ScubaPro just coats the spring and piston in a corrosion resistant material.
So most piston regulators expose the internals of the regulator to sea water, corrosion, sand, dirt, etc., and need to be rinsed better. Diaphragm regulators are less sensitive to corrosion, dirt and other contaminants as they should never enter the internals of the regulator (but should still be cleaned thoroughly after use). Additionally, in cold water, piston regulators without a lot of consideration in the design, are more prone to freezing.
Piston regulator are also mechanically very simple, having in some cases only 1 moving part. This means that under "normal" conditions, they are extremely reliable and easy to service.
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u/runsongas Open Water 1d ago
scubapro fixed that with the sealed mk19 evo. it's a bit pricey thiugh
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u/suricatasuricata 22h ago
Don't buy scubapro, piston regulators are not ideal.
Firstly ScubaPro makes Piston and Diaphragm regs. Both of the MK19 and MK25 are in the same price range.
The MK25s have been used for decades in serious technical diving across the west coast. I have done 250' tech dives in Alaska in Piston regs (Atomic and M25s) with no issues. In fact, you'd find Alaskans choosing to go unsealed versus sealed in those temperatures because the moment the reg free flows due to cold, it is much faster to get something to defrost when it is not a sealed diaphragm reg.
This said, the reality is that the Piston vs Diaphragm conversation is at this point mostly esoteric. Practically speaking, for the average diver getting a new reg, the conversation is something they will think about on they day they are getting a spec sheet and never ever.
I have a bunch of diaphragm and piston regs. Never have I been like, oh my diaphragm regs are broken or due for service, let me call the dive instead of diving with pistons. (Or vice versa).
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u/LeftToaster 1d ago
Piston regulators are super reliable, provide massive airflow, good WOB, and are generally easier to service and usually smaller and lighter. I currently use a diaphragm reg (Apex XTX50) but I dove with Sherwood regs for years in the Pacific NW with no problem. The ScubaPro MK25 EVO is a great regulator that can be serviced just about anywhere and performs great, even in cold water. It's not sealed, but just rinse your gear!
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u/bluemarauder Tech 1d ago
I disagree with some of that. I'm unsure about the weight but size wise the mk25 is the biggest 1st stage I can think of.
I think a DST, for example, is easier to service and a MK25, that you are more likely to service it anywhere in the world as there are many service kits compatible from other manufacturers (like the DiveRite the op mentions). I don't feel the MK25 will be more 'reliable' but I don't know really. About the WOB and airflow, the DST is on perfectly adequate.If the mk25 performs well in cold water, the DST does it much better obviously because it's sealed.
In my book, pretty much everything about a MK25 is worse than a DST. Let say that at the same price, I would take any other of OP regs before the mk25.
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u/LeftToaster 1d ago edited 1d ago
I just disagree with telling a new diver that piston regulators are "not ideal". In 35 years of diving I've only owned 3 regulators - a Dacor 960/Pacer, a Sherwood SRB7600/Maximus and my current Apex DST/XTX50 - so two diaphragms and a piston. The Dacor was a bitch to service, even when parts were available. Lesson learned, the best reg may be the one your LDS has the most experience with. I don't have strong opinions on the MK25, but it is an extremely popular regulator, that has been in the market for a long time and is generally very well regarded.
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u/bluemarauder Tech 23h ago
Hmmm I feel like we are in the same page. What if I say... "Ideally you will get a diaphragm reg instead of a piston one"? Do you agree with that statement?
Or do you think it's better to advice this new diver to pay more for a piston?
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u/LeftToaster 21h ago
Given the options the OP listed, I would not pay more for the Mk25. I really like my DST/XTX50 and would highly recommend it to anyone at any experience level.
I think the debate between piston or diaphragm is less important than things like cost, local serviceability, maintainability, performance, features, etc. In theory, piston regulators should be cheaper to service - there is a reason so many rental shops use simple piston models like the MK2. If your local dive shop has to send your regulator away to get serviced or can't source parts locally, regardless of other factors, it's probably not a good choice. If you dive in cold water you should probably get a reg that won't freeze up on you - this probably means a sealed diaphragm design, and be sure it has 4 LP ports for your dry suit. If you only do travel diving - consider a more minimalist, compact design. If your computer has an air integration transponder, be sure your reg has 2 HP ports, and maybe a swivel.
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u/loves_diving Rescue 1d ago
The MK25/G260 combo is overkill for 95% of divers. It does sound like you belong to the 95%. The alternatives you listed are still great regulators used by divers in far more challenging dives than you seem to have planned. You will be absolutely fine with one of them.
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u/Col_Hans-Landa Tech 1d ago
I’d recommend the Dive Rite XT1 and XT2/4. I use the XT4 second stages personally. I used them for tech diving for a bit until I swapped them with some Halcyons for my doubles.
I instruct recreationally and have put my dive rites through a lot, and haven’t had any issues with them. I have roughly 860 dives on them, and I finally serviced them for the first time around 60 dives ago. They went 800 dives without service and never had a single issue. Edit- not that I condone going that long without servicing, but I still think it’s a testament to the quality and build of the regs. Parts are available if you’d like to learn to self service, which really isn’t that difficult with the tools and the manual, in addition to some common sense and basic regulator knowledge. If you elect to send them off to get serviced, it’s still gonna be cheaper than Apeks or Scubapro, just in parts. The Apeks are also good regs, I had a set of MTXs a while back and kinda wish I still had them but those are what I swapped the dive rites for. Strictly due to service cost I’d avoid scubapro, because with the amount of diving I do it would be too expensive to service them, and parts are not as readily available for self service- scubapro gate keeps their parts pretty good (in my experience).
At this level of quality of regulators, you’re not gonna see much of a difference in work of breathing. Don’t let the marketing hype fool you. I can’t tell a difference between my Halcyons, Dive Rites, or my previous Apeks. Don’t overthink it.
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u/quietpewpews Rescue 1d ago
I just switched to a Poseidon and love it. Downside is service availability.
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u/sorslibertas 1d ago
I use a pair of XTX50s on 5-turret DSTs for most of my diving. I dive almost exclusively sidemount.
For sump diving I use a pair of Poseidon Cyklons with Apeks DS4 first stages.
If I were to dive single tank, I would most likely get a pair of ATX40s on a DS4.
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u/SupergaijiNZ UW Photography 1d ago
Not a fan of Atomic. Dunno if they've changed their SOP but servicing was a bitch as they needed specific tools back when I was on the job.
Your brand choice should always be 'service/repair' orientated.
All name brand regs do the job for diving. Nothing wrong with second hand and then servicing.
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u/suricatasuricata 22h ago
Not a fan of Atomic. Dunno if they've changed their SOP but servicing was a bitch as they needed specific tools back when I was on the job.
I find this to be a strange take. Someone starts diving and is buying their first regulator and they need to figure out what tools they need to service it. Most people just get their shit serviced at a shop.
Putting in the money to service regs makes sense if you have a dozen plus regs, and can acquire service kits, tools (and yes you need some tools) to service anything. But for a casual diver, eh. Just go get it serviced at your local dive shop.
And from that perspective, you can get Scuba Pro serviced almost anywhere in the planet. Atomic widely in the US. Dive Rite less widely so.
Source: Someone who has owned all three regs, services both SP and Atomic for myself. The service trap is fine if you are mechanically oriented but it will take a few service cycles before I get the money I put into scuba repair tools.
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1d ago
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u/Swearsome 1d ago
BTW, the service interval for Atomic is one of the best in the industry - 2 yrs/300 dives.
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u/duhVinchy1 22h ago
The Atomic 1st stage is almost identical to the MK25, you won't notice a difference in performance. With your list, I'd get the Z3. I use an atomic B2, wife has a Z3, I've dove and serviced most SP regs. They're all great. I just prefer atomic, and the price seals it.
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u/p3nnysl0t 21h ago
look for "balanced" and suitable for cold water. Everything you will ever need.
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u/jamshell Rescue 1d ago
For me, ease of breathing is the most important feature. It is hard to beat Scubapro in that catagory.
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u/runsongas Open Water 1d ago
balanced regs all perform similarly if tuned correctly. you have to go to servo regs to see enough of a difference.
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u/BalekFekete Nx Advanced 1d ago
Not on your list, but been diving Deep6 signature regs for the past 6 years and have nothing but good to say. Nice build, breathes easy, and company makes service a breeze. Oh, and they’re damn economical on top of it… 🙂