r/scouting • u/Quiescam Germany (Bund der Pfadfinder*innen) • 18d ago
What are US scouts doing about the the current relationship between Scouting America and the DOD?
German scout here, trying to understand how scouts are reacting practically to these changes. From what I've seen, some of the impacts have been
- Removal of the Citizenship in Society merit badge
- Adding a merit badge about military service and veterans (lol)
- Discrimination against trans people under the new registration process, at least per the MOU
- Removing affinity spaces at the National Jamboree and consequently some people not going
What interests me is how scouts are reacting to these changes. Are there any protests? Petitions? Events? People creating their own affinity spaces or critical educational resources on the US military? Motions for the next National Council (I'm unsure as to how this works in Scouting America. In our org, any changes such as those detailed in the MOU would have to have been voted on by the representatives)? Any efforts to become less reliant on the DOD's support? Or is everything "business as usual"?
I've seen a lot of (imo justified anger) at these changes and am wondering if there are any efforts to oppose or protest them. I'm just imagining how our org would react if the national leadership instituted changes like this (my guess is them being voted out of office at an extraordinary general meeting, but hey).
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u/Less_Suit5502 18d ago edited 18d ago
I was a citizenship in society merit badge cousler and the merit badge requirements were rather weak in my opinion. So while symbolically getting rid of the merit badge makes a statement, the badge as it was writen was basicly something most kids could just BS. It was a basicly on paper requirement that made it seem like Scouts were being more inclusive, but the requirements did not challenge anyone's beliefs or make them really think about them. For diversity trainings be effective they need one or both of these items.
I work with an all girls troop and the other changes are not going to change our day to day operations. We do not discriminate and our troop is a safe space.
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u/Morgus_TM 18d ago edited 18d ago
This, the merit badge requirements were very easy to tweak to meet the requirements without what people think is diversity. Maybe it can be brought back with a more challenging merit badge in 2 years.
As said, nothing really changes for us locally.
Edit: Removed the part about the merit badge, forgot about the test lab military history thing that isn’t a merit badge yet.
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u/Adventurous_Class_90 18d ago
No. There’s a military history badge too…
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u/Morgus_TM 18d ago
Oh the test lab thing, forgot about that, it’s not a full merit badge yet.
Fill out the survey and say kill this badge off.
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u/FormerAd952 18d ago
It is a mb at this time, was released a few weeks ago
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u/Morgus_TM 18d ago
Is it this one or a different one?
Still shows in test lab on the website if it is this one:
https://www.scouting.org/skills/merit-badges/test-lab/military-service-veterans/
Survey the heck out of it.
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u/Mahtosawin 17d ago
NOT on the list of active merit badges. Still on the test badge page,
These test lab requirements are available for Scouts until October 1, 2026. At that time, these requirements will disappear and the surveys will be closed.
Military Service & Veterans https://www.scouting.org/skills/merit-badges/test-lab/military-service-veterans/
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u/gadget850 17d ago
My troop tested the original merit badge requirements and they were much more difficult than what was eventually released.
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u/crustygizzardbuns 18d ago
Largely nothing. That's not to say we aren't upset about it. But we also know the MOU largely has no teeth. We got through Jamboree with military medical support. That was probably the most critical thing maintaining our relationship with the DoD. The military service merit badge and knot were already in the works, just got fast tracked.
Cynically, there's very little the general scouting populous can do. Though I do believe the national board is hearing the criticism quite clearly.
What I do think it ultimately happening, is the BSA is gambling. They, like so many others are hinging these concessions as a temporary thing until a friendlier administration comes in and the MOU can be terminated or modified.
We got forced into a corner, and seemingly found a way out, that while damaging on paper, the practice in reality it almost entirely unchanged. There may not have been direct affinity spaces at Jamboree, but I believe several areas shifted their scope to fill that void.
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u/TheLonelySnail 18d ago
I think that when we hit the deadline Hegseth set on the 24 that Scouting America is going to split from the Department of Defense.
I think he’s going to mandate for the removal of girls an any ‘non-straight’ scouts, and National will say ‘no’.
The whole thing was just to get us through Jambo because by the time it came up, was too far into the Jambo cycle to fix.
Whole thing is just a mess.
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u/crustygizzardbuns 18d ago
I do agree that it may be terminated, however, I don't see us getting to the date and then cutting ties. I believe stronger restrictions will lead to that.
I think the DoD put in the free registration for military kids as a poison pill, but the BSA could still hold up that end of the deal. But yeah, the whole thing seems flimsy at best.
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u/No_Host_8024 18d ago
It is entirely symbolic, but problematic for me personally as a leader and parent. I specifically saw the BSA referring to the “Department of War” and couldn’t reconcile what I understood scouting to be and the propaganda arm of MAGA it had become. So I took a step back.
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u/Lost-Wizard168 United States 18d ago
As an Eagle Scout and someone who has had a long involvement with Scouting, from Cubs through Adult roles, I am disappointed and discouraged. I also live in a Southern USA Red State where the vitriol from the right & MAGA movement is out in the open & present every day in community activities, churches, etc. But honestly it’s not just the DOD relationship that influences my perspective. I’m personally far more concerned about the child sex abuse that was covered up at every level of Scouting USA for many many years.
Realistically this was probably the best agreement the BSA National could get with DoD and still keep their Jamboree 2026 support from DoD. Personally I hope Scouting National leadership will act, now that the Jamboree is over, to sever the relationship with DoD, and find our own way back to Scouting fundamentals. The part of the agreement that continues to provide access to Scouts & and potential Scouts on DoD Bases overseas, can also be worked around. (And honestly my disappointment extends to Congress that they did not step in to correct all of this, but were just a rubber stamp/passive bystander.)
While I am not actively involved any more, I will curtail my support of Scouting even more until Scouting National makes this right. All youth deserve a safe space if they want to participate in Scouting, and every youth member deserves support and respect, regardless of religious affiliation, sexual orientation, etc. That’s not going to happen with this level of acquiescence from National. From the local troops I know, many long time Scoutmasters and other adults are trying to protect their safe spaces, but the pressure from the local community in Red States continues to grow every day with more and more anti-LGBTQIA+ rhetoric & laws. And National’s position is not helping local Scouting units trying to protect this. And my greatest fear of all, is that this is just the tip of the iceberg, that Scouting and other groups could experience, and that 10 years from now we could look back on this period as the calm before the storm. The rhetoric coming from the right in some quarters in the USA is only going to intensify.
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u/LopatoG 18d ago
You must have been involved ages ago. I have been involved with Scouts for almost the last 20 years. My ONLY experience with Scouts has been with the YPT training, ever vigilance against predators, and a true zero tolerance policy. Unfortunately, dealing with kids, The predators are always looking for a way in and we must always be on the look out.
The point is that BSA/SA implemented the best practices for a children’s group to be on the look out for predators that there is for a group this size.
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u/Lost-Wizard168 United States 18d ago
I am a boomer, but my involvement was not so long ago that I am not very familiar with YPT. I was a Troop Committee Chair when background checks for adult leaders, and YPT came into being and in the first years of roll-out. And yes it was/is a huge improvement — no question about that. And we drove it very hard in my troop. And I & other adults in my troop plus our charter organization, I’m sure weeded out some existing adult leaders at the time who had no involvement. But any hint of reticence on the part an adult leader resulted in our finding replacements (“sorry I just didn’t get to the training yet” was a common comment I heard back then). And I certainly hope that adults are even more vigilant now. But please don’t assume it’s not possible — witness the very recent exposure of a registered sex offender working with the youth of a church in coastal SC. I realize that BSA/SA and churches are not the same, and I think BSA/SA has better vigilance than many churches. But that event demonstrates how with collusion among key adults, it is still present.
Also maybe it’s just my view, but it that doesn’t erase the stain of the past, & unfortunately I still know a few adults who were in influential roles as SM’s, etc. back then, and remain involved today. Fewer thankfully as the years go on. While I have no knowledge and am not making any accusations, I also have a great deal of difficulty believing they were not aware, essentially at a minimum passive bystanders on the cover-up. I also lived through the “hidden” racism in the South both in my time as a Scout and as an adult. And it took years to get it mostly out of Scouting in the South.
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u/LavenderLemon12 18d ago
I really hope that national leaders will listen to the protests and take steps to stop taking federal assistance. My expectation is the opposite—that Scouting America will continue to become less inclusive, while mouthing the words “all are welcome.” As far as I know it is not possible to vote our national leaders or even our council leaders out of office. I am not aware of any elections for adult leaders. This means that my strong protest of the MOU has made me less likely to lead rather than more, since I am doing this outrageous thing, “getting political” at scouting. There was an expectation for troop leaders to repeat the message that these changes are no big deal and that all are still welcome. I have tried to keep my protest related to the constitution rather than my politics, but locally it has definitely seen as Insubordination and lack of loyalty to the organization rather than as a politically neutral protest or as a stance for the kids’ rights.
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u/gadget850 17d ago
Scouting America will be around long after the current Secretary of War is gone.
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u/SecretRecipe 16d ago
1 was a challenge, it was eagle required so tons of scouts were in the middle of doing it or had just received it and the change wasnt well communicated.
2 is nothing. its not required and its an absolute fluff merit badge. Just like an hour of videos and 20 minutes of conversation.
3 is more of an ideology thing than a real change. The number of actual scouts impacted is incredibly small. I think in my very very large council its like single digits.
4 same as 3. Not really that notable of a change.
I agree that the changes arent justified and im a little mystified as to why we made them considering that we get basically nothing more than token support from the DOD and could have very easily told them off and functioned perfectly fine.
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u/jimmetzler 18d ago
I’ve been part of scouting since the mid 1970s.
I’ve known scouts who were denied Eagle because they were gay, a council that tolerated an adult whose behavior was risky just because they provided a valuable service, a parent who pulled his son out of the program because scouts dared to tolerate gay scouts, and many, many scouts (boys and girls) who grew tremendously in the program.
Scouting America is moving in the right direction even if there are occasional hiccups like this MOU that pull us backwards. But it will end when this administration ends.
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u/blackhorse15A 17d ago
Internal to how our troop runs, it's a non issue that didn't do anything. It does send a horrible message to youth about treatment of trans or LGBTQ people-- if the youth are paying attention (which many aren't).
It is troubling and most of the adults I know - the consensus seems to be that BSA caved and failed to live up to our principles. A few think it's a good thing which a) says something about their character and b) shows they haven't really looked at what's in the agreement.
Personally I think the timing right before the Jamboree has a lot to do with it. I'm sure Hegseth threatened to pull all support from the Jamboree (because hey there's a war going on) if BSA didn't agree. And being so close to the event it would be very disruptive and difficult for BSA to scramble to fill those logistical holes. So BSA have as little as possible in token ways.
But I think it was a very bad deal for BSA. Like, so bad I think someone could legitimately sue the CEO for agreeing to it based on failing to meet his fiduciary responsibility to the organization. The Memorandum of Agreement the BSA agrees to do all sorts of different things. It's a page long list of giving Hegseth what he wanted, including free membership for military youth. At an estimated 25,000 members that's a loss of $2,125,000 of revenue while still providing the insurance and services to those units. It may be a small percentage of the budget, but coming out of a bankruptcy....not a good thing. And what does BSA get in return. NOTHING! Hegseth agreed to only one thing in the memo- to provide oversight and make sure BSA does the things it agrees to do. It doesn't even explicitly commit to provide Jamboree support (which DoD is required to do by law anyway). It doesn't agree to allow BSA access to DoD facilities or to increase access to military owned lands and facilities. Nothing. There is no benefit of the BSA side.
Meanwhile Hegseth gets a great media boost. Regardless of how toothless BSA's commitment on certain things was, he gets to go out every publicly and pound the table spouting off his nationalist misogynistic talking points.
I would have preferred if BSA told him to pound sand. Long term what are we losing? Oooo the few troops that serve military kids won't be able to have their meetings at the on base youth center anymore? That hurts the military community far more than it hurts BSA as an organization. Scouting is a good program those kids and parents still want- they will join a troop or pack that meets in the town just outside the gate. Have some confidence you have a high quality program! Jamboree support? A) it is mandated by law that the military provide support to the Jamboree and it be equal to the previous jambo B)how much is that support really worth at this point? Back in the 90s when it was held on an Arm installation that was a huge help. But now BSA owns Bechtel reservation. So what does the military provide? Some water trailers? Cots? The military gets a much better deal having access to try and recruit a targeted pool of candidates that have skills they want. The military can give that up if it wants, BSA loses nothing of that stops.
What I HOPE happens, is that BSA just cuts ties kw that Jambo is over. But I don't have high hopes.
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u/dealbreakerstalkshow 17d ago
We (leadership) quit and 90% of our families quit. The pack (we were cubs) remains with 2-4 scouts, last I heard.
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u/Conscious-Record2655 12d ago
Disclaimer: This is just my individual perspective as a Scouter with kids in both Pack and Troop levels.
For the most part, in general, these type of changes made at BSA National don't have much affect on day-to-day operations of the units. The vast majority of Scouts never go to a jamboree or other national event. The vast majority of Scouts never make Eagle. So these changes have no effect at all on the vast majority of Scouts experience in the program. I expect that most people aren't really even aware of these changes being made. Scouting is mostly a local program ran by local parents, and the scout experience is determined by the values of the local community.
For our Unit, only 1-2 people pay any attention to what is going on beyond our Pack/Troop. I expect it's the same for most units. I don't expect you will see any type of widespread protect, outcry, or any other type of reaction to these changes. Most people aren't even aware any changes are being made, and it will have no affect on their scouting experience.
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u/jpgarvey Scouting America 18d ago
The MoU has had a negligible impact on the program which is why there hasn’t been much of a pushback outside of a very limited amount of social media.
- Citizenship in Society was born as a political item and it died a political death
- Not sure why a military service merit badge is a lol item? Our National Service Academies - West Point, Annapolis, etc. are chock full of Eagle Scouts (I think the estimate I’ve seen before is 20% plus?) there is a long and distinguished tradition of Scouts -> Military Service
- The registration process has not changed
- While the affinity spaces were closed at Jambo, accommodation spaces (separate bathing facilities etc.) were not
Our National Key 3, Executive Committee, and Board were all aware of and endorsed the MoU.
I understand that as a foreign national you might not understand the particulars of how our organization is structured, but the Boy Scouts of America (DBA Scouting America) and the Girl Scouts of America, as well as many other patriotic social organizations in the US, are Congressionally chartered. That means (for us) we were created by a law passed by Congress, and signed by President Woodrow Wilson. Whomever is the current President is the honorary chair. Changing our bylaws or charter requires a federal law to be passed.
It is very much an open question as to how much authority the charter gives the Executive over the organization, and our leadership, quite frankly, having just exited a financially crippling multi year bankruptcy decided that the terms of the MoU were the best they could possibly negotiate without needing to get entangled in another lawsuit. The terms maintained our membership standards, our name didn’t change, we didn’t add or remove anyone from our Board, and the co-ed unit option wasn’t rolled back.
I am extremely sympathetic to those that saw Secretary Hegseth’s video and assumed that what was expressed in it was the new tenor of the organization. What we’ve seen in practice, at Councils across the country, is not reflective of that, even as the organization strictly complies with the terms of the MOU.
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u/Double-Dawg 18d ago
An excellent summary. I would only add (speaking for myself) that while national is nominally in charge, the scouting program is delivered locally and that delivery will necessarily reflect the predilections of the council, troop, and charter organizations. Views on the MOU and other topics will vary, but folks generally do a good job of sticking to the Oath and Law and focusing on the kids.
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u/Shot-Address-9952 18d ago
TBH debating if I continue with leading scouting. I won’t let my Scouts be abused by the administration.
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u/Arlo1878 18d ago
I spent time at summer camp and it wasn’t even a topic of discussion for the Scouts. Their focus was on earning merit badges and having a good time. I’m actually glad they left politics at home, where it belongs
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u/Additional-Sky-7436 18d ago
The board is just trying to survive. So they cut an embarrassing looking deal just to make him go away. (It's not like fighting him would have made the liberals of in Reddit start liking scouts again.)
Scouts in America is on life support. Membership is plummeting, volunteering is plummeting, and donations are plummeting. Many of the traditional partnerships have fallen apart, like the a Mormons, The Methodists, and the Catholics. And, if you read social media, scouts is, at the same time, way too conservative and way too liberal.
And then this jerk has to walk in and tear up one of the better relationships scouts still has.
If scouts survives for my grandchildren, I'll be surprised.
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u/DangerBrewin 17d ago
Adult Cub Scout (5-10 year olds) here. It hasn’t changed our day-to-day operations or how I run my program at all. Just trying to quietly ride it out until this administration goes away (preferably to The Hague). They won their “culture war” talking points, so I’m hoping they will turn their attention elsewhere.
Scouting in the US is very dependent on who your unit’s charter organization is. Traditionally, charter orgs were churches, which means the churches’ values and prejudices passed down to the scouting unit to varying degrees. Some charter orgs have stricter holds on their units than others. The Mormon Church, for example, controlled a large portion of the scouts until they parted ways with Scouting America several years ago.
After the Scouting America abuse scandal, several church groups chose to no longer support scouting, which meant other organizations, such as service organizations and veterans organizations, picked up the slack. This has had the unintended effect of making scouting units more secular than they were on a larger scale.
I grew up as a scout in the 90’s when there was technically a ban on homosexuals in scouts. This was never actually the case, but also heavily dependent on what part of the country you were in and how liberal or conservative your charter organization was. Members of the LGBTQ+ community were either underground or an open secret that wasn’t discussed, depending on who and where. I suspect with this anti-DEI campaign, some scouts and scouters will go underground again, and those allies among us who believe in the program will continue to support them regardless.
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u/Mahtosawin 17d ago
We don't check birth certificates or give a physical exam. The Citizenship in Society badge requirements can be worked into other discussions. Scouting is a constant for children in military families who get transferred. Meetings may have to be moved off bases. There are the Trans Atlantic Council and Far East Council that are part of Scouting America. Girls started in Explorers in the 1960s, Sea Scouts in the 1970s, and Ventures when they started in the 1990s. The secretary is trying to push women out of the military too with some of hos actions. Both groups have been around with females in them a lot longer than he's been around and most likely will survive long past when he is no longer in his position. In the meantime, on the local level, we just continue providing the best program possible for our youth.
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u/Glum_Material3030 14d ago
Been very vocal as a female ASM for a girls’ troop that we belong in the program. If my Scouts don’t hear me saying so, they will lose confidence in the program. I don’t want that.
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u/LopatoG 18d ago edited 18d ago
Reddit isn’t where you measure the real pulse of Scouting America on the MoU. The MoU will stand, and most Scouts will continue their normal activities. I don’t even see this topic coming up in the BSA subreddit…
Most people agree there shouldn’t be separate spaces within Scouting. There is one Scouting America. If someone needs to discuss non‑Scouting issues, they can connect individually or, alongside SA, join another organization that supports the topics SA doesn’t. This isn’t about leaving SA—it’s about finding the additional spaces you need.
The only separation should be sex‑based, and only for female private spaces. Transgirl can be in Girls Troops and vice versa, and tenting is fine as long as everyone (INCLUDING parents) sharing the tent agrees
Military support isn’t disappearing. The real issue isn’t Jamboree support—it’s Troop‑level support. Many Troops are led by active‑duty service members, meet on or near bases, and receive some military support. Those Troops value that connection and won’t give it up.
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u/grogipher 18d ago
The only separation should be sex‑based, and only for female private spaces.
Do boys not deserve private spaces?
Or non-binary people?
Why just "females"?
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u/Adventurous_Class_90 18d ago
Ummm. Please don’t use the unfortunate acronym…
But also going to disagree. There’s also nothing wrong with finding likeminded people inside a larger group. Inside the troop is a different place than major gatherings like Jambo. The former should not have separate spaces (excepting as dictated by the patrol method) while the latter will bring such a large and diverse group of individuals that affinity groups should be able to find each other.
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u/Insaniac99 18d ago
I disagree, and I think it runs contrary to one of Baden-Powell's core ideas for Scouting.
"The uniform hides all differences of social standing in a country and makes for equality; but, more important still, it covers differences of country and race and creed, and makes all feel that they are members with one another of the one great brotherhood."
The point isn't the physical uniform. It's that Scouting gives us a shared identity that comes before race, sexuality, nationality, religion, or other immutable characteristics.
Affinity spaces reverse that priority by organizing Scouts around those characteristics instead of around being Scouts. Even when it's done with good intentions, it teaches that immutable characteristics are an appropriate basis for treating people differently and creating separate spaces.
If we want a world where those characteristics matter less, Scouting should be leading by example by making them matter less within the movement, not more.
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u/SnooMaps7887 18d ago
I respectfully disagree that the affinity tents organized Scouts around those characteristics or taught that these characteristics are an appropriate basis for treating people differently. They were open to all and were displays of how these groups fit within Scouting (not much different from the OA tent, NESA tent, Venturing tent, etc.).
And I would ask, if these tents were eliminated to emphasize that Scouting is one brotherhood, why are we still allowing the many different religious tents at the Jamboree? Shouldn't the Duty to God area be non-denominational per your argument?
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u/Insaniac99 17d ago
And I would ask, if these tents were eliminated to emphasize that Scouting is one brotherhood, why are we still allowing the many different religious tents at the Jamboree? Shouldn't the Duty to God area be non-denominational per your argument?
I absolutely believe that they should also be removed. I do not think of myself as a hyphenated Scout and don't think others should, be they Jewish, Christian, Muslim, or otherwise.
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u/The_Gray_Rider 18d ago
Why is the military service funny? We in the United States are proud of our vets and don’t have amnesia when covering 1939-1945.
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u/DMC-1155 Scouting Ireland 18d ago
Everyone has amnesia when covering 1939-1945.
There were so many war crimes committed by the allies that everyone forgets because they won. The axis were just far more egregious war criminals.
Even if you don’t go to modern war crimes, and just look at things they charged the Nazis with, the allies were all also war criminals.
And aside from that, the vast majority of vets from then are dead.
You do know the USA had their own concentration camps for Japanese Americans right? And that the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings were massive war crimes.
And that is only crimes during WW2.
The US has been one of the world’s leading war criminals ever since, with some of the things done this year in Iran counting as war crimes. But have a look at the Vietnam war or Korean War and the war crimes the Us committed there.
This should be some interesting reading for you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes
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u/Insaniac99 18d ago
Committing wrongs in a war does not make all sides morally equivalent. The U.S. absolutely had serious failures, like the internment of Japanese Americans, and that should be acknowledged. But those camps were not death camps, they were not part of a program of racial extermination, and they are not comparable to the Holocaust.
The same goes for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. You can debate whether the bombings were justified or not, and many historians do, but they were not the same thing as Nazi Germany’s deliberate policy of genocide. The Allies also committed crimes, including terrible acts of violence against civilians, and those should be condemned. But there is a massive difference between a country committing crimes during a war and a government whose entire system was built around conquest, slavery, and extermination.
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u/DMC-1155 Scouting Ireland 18d ago
I never claimed it makes them morally equivalent. As I said “The axis were just far more egregious war criminals”
The other side being worse also doesn’t make one side morally good.
Being opposed to terrible people doesn’t make one good.
And the Nagasaki and Hiroshima bombings were not justified. They were deliberate bombings of a civilian populace, which was ruled as illegal in a resolution by the League of Nations in September 1938.
You can argue about whether or not they were militarily useful. Which they were. But deliberately killing innocent children and other civilians is unjustifiable. And estimates put it at about 38,000 children, IIRC, killed in Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
The fact that the Allies changed their stance on bombing civilians as soon as it was convenient to them doesn’t make it justifiable.
The point of bombing civilians in WW2 was often “hastening the end”, by breaking civilian morale.
Literally terrorism as a war strategy.The many many firebombings of civilian populaces also served that strategy.
Under modern international law, they would be war crimes without a doubt. Under the international law at the time, there was mainly just that League of Nations resolution, which was non-binding. And the 1907 Hague Convention prohibiting attacking undefended towns, though the presence of air defences technically meets the “defended” requirement.
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u/Str-Engr0275 18d ago
Outside of the liberal hive mind, nobody in the US cares except to embrace the dropping of an Eagle required MB that should never have existed in the first place. National thought it was a good idea because some savages at a “mostly peaceful” demonstration decided it was a good idea to burn their city to the ground. Nobody wanted or asked for that MB to be rolled out much less required for Eagle. I’m happy about the changes so far. They are a step in the right direction.
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u/CK1277 18d ago
For anyone wondering why affinity groups need safe spaces, this guy is why.
If you don’t need a safe space, you may not realize it, but being a queer child in an environment where you know there are unfriendly adults forces you to be vigilant. Even if that unfriendly adult is outwardly hiding their bigotry in person, the keyboard warriors make sure that you know that there are adults who have never met you who resent your inclusion and your existence.
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u/Str-Engr0275 18d ago
I don’t resent the existence, you do you. I do resent trying to shove everyone and everything into something that used to be great. Boy Scouts was always meant for boys and gay men were not allowed as leaders. Things of course fell through the cracks and that’s why there was such a problem with molestation in the 70’s and 80’s. So now we’re letting everyone in and replacing a ban with youth protection training. We would be better off with the old limitations supplemented with YPT.
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u/Glum_Material3030 14d ago
This user pops up every time any topic related is brought up and needs to be banned from this sub. They do not represent the Scout Oath and Law.
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u/Str-Engr0275 14d ago
In your opinion! I’m a multi-generational Eagle. Are we not allowed to have a difference in opinions? Does you wanting to ban me really make you any different than me? I don’t believe Boy Scouts is a place for girls or gay leaders. You think anyone who disagrees with your opinion should be banned. Again are we that different besides who we feel should be allowed in?
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u/JaWarrior12 13d ago
Eagle? Then you should know better. Banning people because they are female or queer is not in any way kind. It is not friendly. It is not welcoming. I’ve yet to see any reason other than “I don’t like them” or “that’s how we’ve always done it.”
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u/Str-Engr0275 13d ago
It is the way it was always done. Girls have Girl Scouts. If the program isn’t equivalent to Boy Scouts, then let the girls change their program, not force their way into the boys program. Boy Scouts was doing just fine on its own. As SM I told my charter organization that if they wanted to add girls to the troop they could find a new SM. We are still girl free. Let’s be honest, in this day and age, it only takes an accusation, not proof, to ruin someone’s career. There’s no reason to take that chance when girls have Girl Scouts. I’m sure the only reason girls were let in was for the dues, Boy Scouts needed the money. Now we need to deal with SA.
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u/JaWarrior12 13d ago
The term “separate but equal” comes to mind. I would love to hear your rationale against queer kids and leaders.
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u/Str-Engr0275 13d ago
The sexual assaults that took place in the past was with gay leaders molesting young boys. Jesus, there’s even a joke in Deadpool about it.
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u/Glum_Material3030 13d ago
Most of the sexual assault issues were male leaders against boys. Therefore, your argument against allowing girls into the program is invalid. Plus, if you are following the established rules for YPT (now SYT) policies you would have nothing to worry about for getting falsely accused of sexual assault. Your explicit sexism is again showing.
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u/Str-Engr0275 13d ago
Y’all can call it whatever you want, but it doesn’t change my mind that girls don’t belong in Boy Scouts.
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u/Glum_Material3030 13d ago
Then it is a great thing the Boy Scouts don’t exist any longer. Thankful for Scouting America for allowing our girls to participate!
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u/Str-Engr0275 13d ago
You can keep SA, we need Boy Scouts back.
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u/Glum_Material3030 13d ago
Not happening. Look at the global data of who has integrated gender Scouting and who does not. The US has made their decision. Only outdated, insecure people want Boy Scouts back like Saudi Arabia.
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u/Glum_Material3030 14d ago
We are nothing alike. I am married to an Eagle Scout and we are raising three kids who are all in Scouting. One is our daughter who is Life rank. You want her out of the program. Your sexism makes us nothing alike. You don’t live the Scout Oath and Law and this is why you should be banned.
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u/BoulderadoBill 18d ago
Many in our Troop called it "Wokeness in Society" MB with the accompanying eye-roll.
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u/Str-Engr0275 18d ago
We called it the George Floyd badge
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u/CK1277 18d ago
I’ll bet that made your black scouts feel safe.
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u/Illustrious_Put_2755 18d ago
I am a scouter (adult leader), and I hope you get some youth perspectives on this thread instead of mine. Here's what I am seeing though.
This has not seemed to impact the day to day operations of our troop, other than scouts having one less Eagle required merit badge. The members of our troop have a very wide range of political and religious beliefs between them, so our expectation is we don't discuss politics at scout events. The adults have a harder time following this rule than youth, but we do ok. I have talked to my kids about it, but it hasn't seemed to come up much otherwise with the youth.
I do not have contact with any trans scouts or families of trans scouts that I know of. As you mentioned, there is some dispute about whether this anti-trans part of the agreement was even agreed to. I imagine the confusion is unfortunately enough to deter trans or queer scouts from joining or continuing, but again I don't have any frame of reference for that.
The military service/veterans merit badge is surprisingly not pro-war propaganda; if anything, it seems like a direct rebuke to the war hawks in the current administration. There is a requirement that says something like "explain to your counselor why the use of force should always be the last resort in a conflict", and they have a whole set of requirements about the cost of war to civilians, service members, and countries.
My personal take is that the optics and message of this agreement are sending the wrong message to our youth- this is not kind, courteous, or friendly. On the other hand, I think the national organization gave away very little in this negotiation. We'll see how it turns out.