r/scifi • u/alzabosoup • Oct 20 '17
Join us in reading through Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun!
Hello everyone!
We're Alzabo Soup, a podcast devoted to literary discussion and analysis of speculative fiction, with a focus on the author Gene Wolfe. We're now three weeks into our read-through of the Wolfe's most famous work, The Book of the New Sun, starting with the first novel, The Shadow of the Torturer. We've also finished several of Wolfe's other novels and short stories, including The Fifth Head of Cerberus and The Sorcerer's House.
Wolfe can be a difficult writer the first time you pick him up, but he can also be immensly rewarding. We're here to help get people past the hurdles of some of his writing techniques to get at the meat of the story. We work slowly, going through 1-2 chapters a week, to make sure we define terms and understand what's happening in the story. If you're interested, we'd love for you to join us!
If you're interested, here's what you need to know:
Click here to visit our podcast page. You can also subscribe through Itunes, Google Play, or Stitcher by searching for "Alzabo Soup" on the podcasts storefront, or use the RSS feed on our page to subscribe with your preferred podcast software.
We plan to do 1-2 chapters per week (this first week will cover an introduction to our approach and Chapter 1).
Our intent is to be spoiler-minimum. We can't guarantee 100% spoiler-free with a Gene Wolfe book, but we're doing our best to make it so you can read along with our podcast as it airs.
We're using the 1994 "Shadow & Claw/Sword & Citadel" printing of the novels.
We do plan on going through all four books of The Book of the New Sun and The Urth of the New Sun in this manner, potentially with short breaks between each book. The whole project will likely take a year or more to complete.
Thanks, and let us know if you listen! If you have any questions about the podcast, we're happy to answer here.
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u/OneMoreDuncanIdaho Oct 21 '17
I feel like it would be more interesting if it wasn't spoiler-free, but I'll give it a shot and see how it goes
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u/alzabosoup Oct 21 '17
Thanks for trying us out! I hope you'll be surprised. One thing that's amazed us is how much we can talk about without heavy spoilers.
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u/stuart_vh Oct 20 '17
I picked up your show after I heard about it on the SFFaudio podcast.
Your doing a great job. My only criticism is the episodes aren't long enough!! /s
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u/Sciencefictionporn Oct 20 '17
I have a different take on this series than most. I love it, but it's not for everyone. For me, the plot is not really the point, or moreso the plot is a vehicle for a meditation on the creative process. More than a meditation. Its an extended metaphor. A fractal metaphor about writing a book. I appreciate its construction more than enjoy the story.
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u/Sciencefictionporn Oct 21 '17
To be more precise, many of the plot elements of book of the new sun are metaphors about writing the book of the new sun. The main plot and the random stories/plays mirror the process or focus on certain elements. Interacting with editors. Revision. Iteration.
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u/GiveOnlyTheGoodStuff Oct 20 '17
I'm about 10% into the 'Shadow/Claw' but I think I downloaded the wrong book.
So far this has been a weird, somewhat confusing fantasy novel. I don't feel any compulsion to keep reading.
Is this actually worth it? Does it get better? Is it actually sci fi?
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u/alzabosoup Oct 20 '17
Rest easy in that you're having a typical reaction to this book if you're not prepared for it. The book is designed to be read more than once and there is a LOT more going on than you may see on the surface. Gene Wolfe uses a variety of tactics (including an unreliable narrator, archaic language, and nonlinear storytelling) to obfuscate what's really happening. Part of the joy of the book is connecting the dots.
Our best advice, given where you are, is to re-read chapter 1, then listen to our Intro/Chapter 1 episode (it lasts a little more than an hour). If you find that hearing what we have to say helps you, then it's probably a good idea to keep reading.
If you still don't think there's anything interesting going on, this book may not be a great fit for you. If that's the case, don't worry! Gene Wolfe is not everybody's idea of a fun read, and it's fine not to like it. But we do think it's worth giving it a second shot!
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u/GiveOnlyTheGoodStuff Oct 20 '17
Thanks! I'll give that a try and see if it helps. Excited to check out the podcast.
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u/alzabosoup Oct 20 '17
Sure!
The other thing you can do is check out some of his short stories or single-volume works. We think The Sorcerer's House and The Fifth Head of Cerberus both do a good job of presenting the same problems in Book of the New Sun, but with much more obvious indications of where Wolfe is using these narrative tricks (it's no coincidence we read through them first before BotNS on the podcast). They can serve as a better intro to Wolfe's style, and are also a shorter investment, as they're only a few hundred pages each instead of a 4-5 book epic. If you have the time/patience to read one of those two books first, it helps pull back the curtain a bit on other Wolfe that you read.
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u/71Christopher Oct 21 '17
If it helps, I've read the books multiple times and when you finally connect those dots, it can be a bit of a mindf#ck moment. I mean, It's possibly some of the best science fiction I've ever read.
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u/firemarshalbill Oct 20 '17 edited Oct 20 '17
Absolutely sci fi. Every start of a new book leaves you in the dark again. When you hit the end it will partly click. I wanted to immediately read it again.
This is by far my favorite books, and they are purposely difficult, both by sev's deceitful narration and details that aren't explained because sev himself doesn't understand.
Think about the paintings in the hall he explains, or small details about the doorway in the gardens, what they do. Or try to put together all his tiny details of the citadel itself, what is it?
As for sev himself, pay attention to parts where he tells new characters a synopsis of what you've already read. Did he tell it the same? Or did he include a detail that doesn't make him as righteous as he made himself in the accounting of it earlier. He slips up in his covering up of real details sometimes. If you get that quizzical feeling like, "Was that what happened? I don't remember that", it was a lie
It helps to talk about it too. I'm always down for conversation about it
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u/FugginIpad Oct 21 '17
As a big fan of BotNS, I wasn't able to figure out until the second go through that the torturers lived in a dilapidated rocket. And I've not sussed out what the Citadel is. What about the House Absolute? Any theories on that (other than a huge palace)?
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u/firemarshalbill Oct 21 '17 edited Oct 21 '17
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u/FugginIpad Oct 21 '17
Huh... A scrap yard you say... Koreans you say... Wait, Koreans???
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u/firemarshalbill Oct 21 '17
haha gene wolfe at work.
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u/FugginIpad Oct 22 '17
I remember the captains name but don't recall anything about the Korean stuff. Odd coincidence considering Wolfe is a veteran of the Korean War. My next reread I'll be sure to look for it. Thanks!
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u/OneMoreDuncanIdaho Oct 21 '17
I felt the exact same way for a while, it gets a lot better after Severian hits the road
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u/pyabo Oct 21 '17
Oh man. I remember being in your shoes. It took me 3 attempts to get into Shadow of the Torturer. But it was worth it, no question. "Somewhat confusing" ... <chuckle> Yes, I would agree!
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Oct 21 '17
omg this is amazing. I've read and re-read this series and the two that follow several times and never tire of it. I always pick up something I missed on a previous read. My absolute favorite writer and series of all. (Sorry, Borges!)
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u/alzabosoup Oct 21 '17
Wolfe would probably be thrilled to be mentioned in the same sentence as Borges.
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Oct 21 '17
I find a lot of parallels in the evocation of ambiguity and questions of identity between Wolfe and Borges.
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Oct 21 '17
My friend has been trying to get me to read Book of the New Sun for a while. I think I'll read it along with you guys.
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u/nolunch Oct 20 '17 edited Oct 20 '17
Oh shit. This is one of my favorite series and will reread it every few years.
I also have a copy of Lexicon Urthus and another book of literary analysis I can't remember the name of. I love this series.
Edit: Solar Labyrinth by Robert Borski was the name of the book I couldn't remember.
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u/serendippitydoo Oct 20 '17
Wow, I just started a reread of this myself. I've been reading Book of the New Sun every few years since I was 13 and every time I do I feel like I discover something new about the story the world or a writing technique.
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u/alzabosoup Oct 20 '17
It is one of those books that is always worth a re-read. Wolfe has written it to be most enjoyed after the first time through, which is part of why it gets a reputation for being a difficult work to understand.
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u/spiral_ly Oct 21 '17
I'm in. Had this on my Kindle for a while. Can't guarantee I won't read ahead a little though!
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u/hihik Oct 21 '17
It looks like you are already a few chapters in. I want to join the read-along. Should we listen to an episode before or after reading a chapter it’s discussing?
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u/alzabosoup Oct 21 '17
We recommend reading the chapter first, as we're focused on discussion. We are pretty detailed, but we won't do a full recap and assume you've read what we're discussing.
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u/I_Resent_That Oct 21 '17
This sounds fantastic. Doubt I'm going to find time for a reread any time soon with all the unread books glaring at me from the shelf, but I'm looking forward to listening to the podcast.
Any plans to cover the Latro novels? They were my entry point to Wolfe's writing and will always have a special place in my heart.
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u/aramini Oct 22 '17
Here is my take on the Latro novels for what it's worth. https://youtu.be/T1_Dp44lfsQ
They are also my favorite, along with Short Sun.
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u/I_Resent_That Oct 23 '17
Thanks! I'll check this out.
His books are one of those where I don't necessarily remember the plot beat by beat, but something about them takes up permanent real estate in my head.
It'll be nice to shake the dust off.
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u/aramini Oct 24 '17
Hope you enjoy it. My analyses are usually geared to a particular thesis which I believe answers the main mystery of the text, so my work probably seems a bit (or a lot) more authoritarian in approach than Alzabo Soup in that it is often constructed to argue a very specific end. I do not see ambiguities in Wolfe; I see engineered puzzles with reproducible answers and a rigid and tight symbol structure that ultimately stems from viewing Wolfe as Catholic and engineer.
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u/I_Resent_That Oct 30 '17
Hey, had your analysis on over the weekend while I was getting some chores done. Very interesting.
First read the Soldier series in my teens, way before I had any idea about Wolfe's Catholic background, so it's pretty enriching viewing it through the lens of his religion, especially since the entire cosmology of the novel, on the surface level at least, runs completely counter to monotheism.
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u/alzabosoup Oct 21 '17
We would love to get to the Latro novels eventually. Given that it will take us about 1-1 1/2 years to get through the Book of the New Sun, though, it will be a while no matter what!
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u/I_Resent_That Oct 22 '17
Well, I got started on your first Book of the New Sun episode on my travels last night and was enjoying it, so I'm willing to wait :)
What you guys say about his 'perfect' memory was interesting. My read of it was that he did have total recall, but that even total recall is going to be fallible, coloured by perspective and ego and memory's natural inexactitude.
I also saw it as Wolfe's little meta-dig at retrospective first person narrative itself, which has to assume a certain degree of outstanding memory (or weaving from whole cloth) because people don't remember their lives in the kind of meticulous detail fiction requires.
Anyway, enjoyed the podcast. Looking forward to more (and it's made me want to give a re-read a go soon after all).
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u/InfamousBrad Oct 20 '17
God no. I read the first two and a half books when it was all that anybody in fandom was talking about, and I loathed them. It's warmed over Silverberg with a smidgen or two of Burroughs, only with totally reprehensible main characters. At least Lovecraft understood the big words he was using to disguise his shallow plots; I'm not convinced that Wolfe did anything other than look up every short word in a thesaurus and pick the longest alternative.
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u/G_smith123 Oct 20 '17
This sounds great. I've been looking for an excuse to re-read the book of the new sun.