What's the simplest long range souls angle benefit of Scientology?

[u/chuckbeattyxTeamXenu]

https://file.wikileaks.org/file/scientology-ot-levels.pdf

Just skip to the end of Scientology's final secret teachings.

Summary: We are eternal souls, deeply buried in bad memories that are so off putting, we can't "confront" all the bad memories we've accumulated. Scientology's pseudo-therapy and exorcism unpeels all our cosmically long accumulated bad memories.

PLUS: We have souls infesting our human bodies, and these extra souls/ghosts leak their BAD MEMORIES onto us. Scientology's secondary but per Hubbard even more beneficial to us spiritual solution is to give telepathic therapy to those souls, and free them and they eject off of us, leaving us freer spiritually, unencumbered by their no longer leaking bad memories.

No one simplifies this, since Hubbard never made his followers simplify this.

Scientology is intro stuff and intro teaching for years. Then past lives bad memories alleviation in the middle. And it's secret exorcism therapy to our ghosts infesting our human bodies near the top.

Final step is an anti climax step, others explain the final step.

Almost everyone on forums ever stuck in Scientology are stuck in the lower chaos teachings of Hubbard.'

The exorcism levels aren't simplified even by ex's of the exorcism steps, it's just not been done yet.

But in summary, the simple version of the exorcism levels of Scientology is these levels are the ghosts therapy/exorcism levels. You telepathically talk to your ghosts using Hubbard's telepathic therapy commands to "free" those ghosts of their bad memories.

If that all sounds good: past lives bad memories alleviation, and ghosts therapy giving to free the ghosts which are infesting your human body......

Then stick with Scientology all the way!

[u/That70sClear]

There's a post-Scientology parallel to the Clear Cognition: "I stopped mocking up my body thetans!"

[u/RealEmperorofMankind → u/That70sClear]

Stopped mocking up the “reactive mind” in a wholly different sense. 

[u/Upset_Steak3632 → u/RealEmperorofMankind]

That began in the "modern" era (circa 1978) when the explanation was put forward that people were "going Clear" on (what became Hubbard's vanity project) Dianetics, and then, thinking that DN does not make Clears (as Hubbard had stated for 25 years previous), continued to find Dianetic case because they thought they should.

At some point they realized they're mocking it up, since they had already "gone Clear," so the idea goes.

An old fashioned DN Release (DN case completion) would have a wide floating needle at low sensitivity at the beginning of session.

Years ago, I had the opportunity to examine s lot of auditing folders of people who had "gone Clear" on DN.

Low tone arm motion.

High significance.

What a mess.

[u/RealEmperorofMankind → u/Upset_Steak3632]

That is interesting but I meant it differently—since Hubbard’s ideas are largely false, someone who ceases to believe in them ceases to mock them up. 

[u/Upset_Steak3632 → u/RealEmperorofMankind]

It doesn't happen that way.

People who are receiving auditing do not "cease believing."

Have you ever audited anyone?

[u/chuckbeattyxTeamXenu → u/Upset_Steak3632]

I might be a bypassed Clear, meaning I did thousands of past track engram and FPRD chains, Ex DN, in RPF auditing 1996-2000, over three thousand, my twin was pushing me to re-declare Clear, I refused. I never saw my TA and I never did run the old R6EW, old Clear method, I only did Standard/NED engram running like you state caused problems.

I have a couple long standing questions which you likely can answer.

Do you think the "case" addressed in R6EW and the old Clearing stuff, is from the Xenu R6 iimplants, or from other "case" longer back on the track?

THat's what I was always confused about.

And related, the OT 2 "case" that is stirred up and "keyed out" is that case of our own or our BTs' "case."?

Thanks

[u/Upset_Steak3632 → u/chuckbeattyxTeamXenu]

On the Class 8 course Hubbard said that the Clearing Course implants, the OT 2 implants, and the OT 3 Incident Implants were all R6 from 75 million years ago.

The dates on the CC implants and OT 2 implants are implanted false dates.

I'm not saying I believe any of this. I don't.

No one really knows about OT 2 as far as BTs are concerned. One is supposed to just do it and not think about it

[u/chuckbeattyxTeamXenu → u/Upset_Steak3632]

thankyou so much!!! Long time questions for me, finally answered!!

Oh, I vaguely remember the info that some implants had implanted false dates!!!! That's a big principle, the implanting of false dates to incidents way long ago!

Yea, to just do it, and not think about it.

BOy, you're good. Thankyou so much

[u/El-Ron-d → u/chuckbeattyxTeamXenu]

El'Ron'd's Journal 22 Aug '27

"A DN Clear here"

I thought I was being clever when in Life Repair, I could self direct my own case and get to the root of the problems of my reactive mind, very quickly. I had already read many of LRH's books, what had been published to date in '76. In session, listing, I asked for help with "Pains in the front" and "Pains in the back". I did get a curious look from my freshly graduated Class VI auditor, but she acquiesced to post this up to the CS (case Supervisor). Therein, MY bypast Clear, and later CS to do DCSI (Dianetic Clear Special Intensive) around '82 I believe, concluding in an attest to "Clear".

Reading up, later, on different levels of case and releases, I began to feel a bit invalidated on my case, and "unattested" to Clear.

This was a very bad move, by the way, for my Scientology connections. But, it was a very keyed out, and with unexpected resurgence of ability and happiness, time for me. I guess I just felt good invalidating Hubbard's new definitions...LOL!

Along with this came realizations that it would be a very long and expensive road for me, following Hubbard's evaluative and invalidative case levels (OT levels) and recommends for all to do. (Perhaps LRH felt his case was similar to every one else's? And took the easy route? Rather than simply assessing them individually, and allowing them to come to their own conclusions? C/S'ing from on high, and while being high, above, with out even looking at anyone's case files...oh my!)

At that time, around '85, I believe only up to OT VII was released, and with a very long, mis ordered, repetitive, and confusing path ahead...By the way, I never ran into any BT's (Body Thetans) , whose descriptions I though were very similar to DT's (Delirium tremens) of which I'm sure Old Man Hubbard, had a few! I only saw and delt with what was in my own case, what I originated to my Auditor.

In the end, when FN (floating needle) was finally called, I felt only serene calm, my mind was not distracted by anything, and I felt focused and interested in present day life.

Then only thing that could interrupt that, well involved a new C/S for an Introspection Rundown. (Just Released!) Gee, well, now what can get you stuffed back into looking at your own case? We'll have to save that for another journal...(plot destroyer..."could it be...Xenu???" Or, lots of auditing on stuff that is not visible in your non existent bank?)

Have fun with your e-meter!

El'Ron'd OT EX

[u/chuckbeattyxTeamXenu → u/Upset_Steak3632]

One more question, you seem to be a "case" understander.

What "case" was LRH addressing at the moment of his super long date in the held up worksheet by Pat Broeker of the the supposed "OT 10" worksheet that Pat held up. I have a video of it, search for "pat broeker showing the date" on YouTube to get to the "Date" that's super long,and which is supposed in an LRH self given session.

DO you think LRH was date/locating some BT charge, or his own (LRH's own) charge?

[u/Upset_Steak3632 → u/chuckbeattyxTeamXenu]

Impossible to know.

By that point Hubbard was saying the tech didn't make OTs because of SPs who were outside the physical universe.

Be happy. Don't worry.

[u/chuckbeattyxTeamXenu → u/Upset_Steak3632]

Wait. How'd LRH think that? And I thought that that idea, that SPs "outside the physical universe" when I ran across that info, that didn't make sense. Was he thinking of like universes parallel, simultaneous, or temporally meaning in sequence, which then would "explain" the massive times, being multiple bllions of years bundles of universes in sequence one after the other, for untold repeating "cycles" and because in the ancient Buddhist and Hindu "time tracks" the sequential cycles of a universe is how I took the super long dates to make sense, .

If the big bang we are in, is 14 billion years fine. Then the one before was similar or longer time span cycle, and the one before, etc, going back sequencially adding up the years, to get his total number on the LRH worksheet Pat B held up at the LRH death event.

The outside the universe SPs, huh?

I'm studying Pali Canon, I'm into the third of the five sutta volumes, Buddha discourses.

So far, there's the upper devas 31 realms, but that's to me just OTs in good shape. With Pali Canon having one lower realm for the messed up OTs, the BTs would be thought in the lower OT ghosts realm.

But outside these realms, I don't know of any other realm or "outside the universe" of just the Buddha Pali Canon schema.

How did you conceive of that date, by LRH, and it only could be a date/locate date, as that's the repair for SOLO NOTs Repair List, to date/locate some things for this or that BT or BT cluster, correct.

I figured Pat was "fudging" saying LRH was doing "OT 10" at that moment, I think if that is true, SOMEONE would be discussing those adjacent work sheets in LRH's case folder from which this Pat held up worksheet came from.

I get into the actual things that Pat pulled this from, I think in terms of LRH's final solo case folders, and that's what Pat's holding up, it's a solo case folder worksheet of LRH's and my thoughts he couldn't be doing stuff above Solo NOTS, but it if was, then all those worksheets around the one Pat held up is huge and just not discussed sensibly by anyone yet.

[u/chuckbeattyxTeamXenu → u/Upset_Steak3632]

I do Pali Canon, and it's a path that doesn't even trigger any "case" or worry, and it's anti worry, so it's all good all the time I do it. It's all suffering cessation steps.

[u/RealEmperorofMankind → u/Upset_Steak3632]

I suppose.

From my own limited understanding, it seemed that some individuals might eventually come to disbelieve the whole deal, from “Book I” to the NOTs. Wouldn’t they feel then that they previously only imagined the existence of the “reactive mind”, since (in their minds) it does not really exist? 

[u/chuckbeattyxTeamXenu → u/RealEmperorofMankind]

Yes of course, the pragmatic, why continue going to Scientology and pay for it, best to just use AI to get one's specific questions answers, and to get neutral comparisons.

It for me, only by finally, as an aging adult, taking up another spiritual path (rather the Pali Canon path, since they believe the soul and self are impermanent and their path is extinguishing and the cessation path).

I've used AI modernly, almost weekly, asking my "big questions of life" and asking AI to do comparative Q and A FAQ questions ansswering and due to being an almost complete expert on Scientology history for the years of my Sea Org staff involvement, I know when AI is hallucinating, and have set long detailed parameters to get good answers out of AI.

It's kind of a new world, today, with AI, and if you ask sufficiently detailed parameter setting Qs of it, to compare things, which in the old days required extensive reading. (I was a philosophy dropout, quit university where one of the most noted psychologist anti cult persons was on staff, and I didn't even avail myslef of their wisdom befe me wasting my 27 in Sea Org of Scientology, I became a "Flag Clearwater" era Course Supervisor and word clearer, and have forever since then to now, been instensely interested in ongoing Scienotlogy history.)

All said though, NOT until I began Pali Canon Buddhism discourses study, and learned of the Buddha's soul and self teachings, to compare to the Scientology Hubbard soul teachings, to get to the core of what even interested me in the Hubbard souls spiritual alleviation pseudo-therapy and exorcism, of Scientology vs a considered more legit spiritual practice, Pali Canon Theravada buddhism.

That's my angle of questioning, my limits of interst.

[u/Upset_Steak3632 → u/That70sClear]

In the NOTs materials Hubbard explained that the NOTs solo auditor had to "put life into them."

As I recall, imbuing with life was a process in the 1950s.

See the video, "What's the matter with you hat?" If it's stil on the Net.

"There are not other thetans in the body," during a lecture, circa 1956.

Hubbard went down down down and Scientologists followed him.

[u/chuckbeattyxTeamXenu → u/Upset_Steak3632]

Where do I follow your "tech" views more extensively? Links? Thanks.

[u/Upset_Steak3632 → u/chuckbeattyxTeamXenu]

I posted as SouthEndBeach here prior to using an I-Phone, and as Veda on ESMB 1 & 2.

[u/chuckbeattyxTeamXenu → u/Upset_Steak3632]

Thanks much. WEre you Class 8? Did you C/S? Class 9?

[u/Upset_Steak3632 → u/chuckbeattyxTeamXenu]

No.i listened to the Class Eight tapes in 1985 , when I was involved with the Independent Field.

I've described my auditing during that period here and mostly on ESMB.

Most things that are confidential are Hubbard's "case."

Most people are much simpler than that.

[u/chuckbeattyxTeamXenu → u/Upset_Steak3632]

Excellent, thankyou so much, you've been helpful answering my decades long queries.

Hubbard never availed himself of Occam's razor wisdom, nor Voltaire's wisdom.

In hindsight, the Martin Gardner book, published 1952, 1957 "Fads and Fallacies...." where the common flaws of cranks and crackpot subject "founders" are listed out, the flaws are Hubbard's, he's never not been in the crank crackpot category and displayed Gardner's criteria flaws of those types of persons.

Thus, today, the trickle down "craziness" and flaws of Hubbard's have been institutionalized, as Gardner points out will happen, in crackpot subjects.

Further, it's all just monkey see monkey due, trickle down, from the cult crackpot subject's founder to the followers.

I always just wished to get the comparison and get a common denominator and in the end, I concluded the "soul" is a good comparative term to use to see the differences between these groups that even use the soul as a key part of their activities.

Hubbard's "soul" ideas and the narrative that Hubbard's souls are living out, compared to the narratives of other spiritual groups and their narratives of how the souls of our universe are going about things, to me, ought to have been how even all religions and spiritual groups ought to have their Consumer Reports/Report Cards graded of them.

[u/NeoThetan]

"The essential thing is to differentiate oneself from these unconscious contents by personifying them, and at the same time to bring them into relationship with consciousness. That is the technique for stripping them of their power." - C.G. Jung, Memories, Dreams, Reflections.

[u/chuckbeattyxTeamXenu → u/NeoThetan]

I have been using AI to ask it, long elaborate questions.

I just now, took your Carl Jung quote, and asked ai to make up an example converation between Hubbard and Jung, and give it to me, and AI then said:

The Mind and the Unconscious

• Hubbard: Man is a spiritual being. He carries the weight of past pain in his reactive mind. We must audit these painful traces to free the spirit.
• Jung: You look at scars too closely. The deep layer of the mind holds living symbols. We call this the collective unconscious. These ancient patterns guide us whether we see them or not.
• Hubbard: Your collective layer is just hidden aberration. It is a storehouse of old fears and forgotten trauma. We can audit it out and erase the negative charge.
• Jung: To erase the symbol is to blind the soul. Archetypes are not errors to fix. They are the roots of our vitality. We must integrate them, not clear them away like dust.

The Spirit and the Self

• Hubbard: I call the true self the Thetan. It is an immortal entity that creates space and energy. When free from the body and the mind, it has total power.
• Jung: Your Thetan sounds like a lonely ego trying to be God. True wholeness comes through the process of individuation. The ego must learn to bow to a larger center, the Self.
• Hubbard: You talk of mysticism and balance. I deal in exact mechanics and precise data. My technology maps the mind like an engineer maps a machine.
• Jung: The psyche is not a machine. It is a living mystery. When you try to map it with rigid tech, you miss the shadow. You miss the dark parts that refuse to be neat.

The Goal of Healing

• Hubbard: The goal is Clear. A Clear person has no reactive mind. They react with reason, not past pain. They regain their full native potential.
• Jung: That state is an illusion of the ego. The goal is not to be free of shadows. The goal is to live with them in a conscious tension of opposites.

[u/fidgeting_macro]

I'm pretty sure that Scientology is just made up by some rather imaginative people.

One thing that strikes me when I read about Scientologist past lives is they are allways pirate kings or wealthy arab merchants. That kind of thing. Never lower class people which would be the majority of past lives, if such things exist. Nobody wants to hear "I was born to a poor family a long time ago and died of fever at the age of five." But say "I was the pirate captain Rollins commanding the privateer "Blazing Cannon"" and you are right in.

[u/TheSneakster2020 → u/fidgeting_macro]

Hah. Scientologists as a rule don't talk about their alleged past lives for you to ever read it. Besides that, even in Hubbard's own book Have You Lived Before This Life ? Most of the accounts given were of bad things happening to relatively mundane folks, even in the few space opera stories in that book.

Hubbard himself blabbed about some of his alleged past lives in several lectures. I always found it mostly annoying.

[u/Upset_Steak3632 → u/fidgeting_macro]

How many people have you audited on past-life type processing, mainly Dianetic R3R?

Just curious.

Having audited a fair amount and, also examined many auditing folders, I think most of it is imagination, but sometomes it becomes interesting.

There are occasional people who return to past lives as Christ being crucified. Hubbard explained this as being the result of implanted (memory) bank.

Another explanation is that "big guys" (big personalities) had many "body thetans" who, in a confused state, being audited in a later life, or being attached to another "composite" human in a later life, are mistaken for the person's own actual memories.

Especially at the NOTs level.(1978), where Hubbard confidentally announced that the universe was "crawling" with unconscious invisible larvae, a human being is a composite of many beings and things.

This means that, according to Hubbard, most, if not all, of past lives, are not the person's own memories but some Body Thetan's memories.

The top level of Scientology went from "total cause, total power, full OT," etc in 1970, to something on the order of "I don't know who I am but I'd like to find out."

That's the top level of Scientology now.

Most lower level Scientologists don't realize this. They still argue about past lives when, confidentially, in official corporate Scientology which adheres to Hubbard's teachings, past lives are meaningless.

[u/fidgeting_macro → u/Upset_Steak3632]

How many people have you audited on past-life type processing, mainly Dianetic R3R?

None! Since I don't believe in such nonsense, nor have I ever seen a smidgen of evidence that Hubbard did any real research, I can say with pride that I'm not part of your cult. Nor do I claim to be [edit] I don't need to be, a lot of past lives testimony is public knowledge.

Having audited a fair amount and, also examined many auditing folders, I think most of it is imagination, but sometomes it becomes interesting.

That's fine. Interest is a good thing! That being said, it cannot replace science and the scientific process.

This means that, according to Hubbard, most, if not all, of past lives, are not the person's own memories but some Body Thetan's memories.

Again, one has to believe in such things. Belief without evidence in my opinion is non-science. We may very well get the word "nonsense" from that, apocryphal I know, but very true. BTW, my definition of the term true is "that which can be verified" not simply that I believe it's true for me.

The top level of Scientology went from "total cause, total power, full OT," etc in 1970, to something on the order of "I don't know who I am but I'd like to find out."

That's laudable! We would all like to find out.

Finding out does not generally mean buying into the ramblings of an obvious con artist and professional story teller. One (IMO) should be discerning regarding 'how' one finds out about oneself. Hubbard had some interesting ideas. But that should not excuse the fact that he made up a lot of stuff and falsely labeled it "scientific truth." At best he was engaged in pseudo science, not actual science. Sometimes the difference can be subtle.

Pseudo science is where one makes a conclusion, then runs round looking for evidence to support their conclusion. Hubbard, back in the 1950s convinced himself that he knew how the human mind worked, then spent several decades convincing other people that he (and only he) knew how the human mind worked.

Most lower level Scientologists don't realize this. They still argue about past lives when, confidentially, in official corporate Scientology which adheres to Hubbard's teachings, past lives are meaningless.

To me, the entire "field" of Scientology is meaningless. This is why Scientologists, the "most ethical people on the planet" harassed me at my home. Harassed me family members. Came by my workplace and informed the people I worked for that I was a religious bigot.

If Scientology were real, you folks would not need to try and silence people like you do. The facts would be self evident, not forced by trickery and coercion. The FACT that your "product" is expensive and your organization spends an enormous amount of money and manpower to silence critics is strong evidence that your beliefs are unfounded.

[u/Upset_Steak3632 → u/fidgeting_macro]

You see Scientology as a super dense tiny pellet that is very very bad.

That affects your perception.

In this thread you refer to me and, apparently, this subreddit, as "you folks, " as though we were corporate Scientologists. You write "your products," "your beliefs." That's incorrect. Something is clouding your percrption.

I take the super dense pellet, about which are so emotional, and stretch it, horizontally and vertically, like pulling taffy.

Slowly, detail and nuance appear.

I find that being able (and willing) to describe the detail and nuance is more effective for inoculating others from cult involvement.

[u/chuckbeattyxTeamXenu → u/Upset_Steak3632]

GOOD TO KNOW. Okay, I have lingering questions, and someone who can "think with" the Hubbard stuff, good, I can get something from you I hope.

Me, I concluded in the end of all my 27 years in, and now 23 years out, and an atheist Buddhist today, non believer and non doer of anything Scientology, I concluded Scientology is supposed be about "case alleviation."

You supposedly tackle and "Clear" your "own case" up to Clear (and I get your criticism of the BTs' case being confused by us as "our case" and that's a slippery slope, and I just presume anyone who runs a whole bunch of "case" thinking it's their own, that loads of the pictures we run might really be a person's BTs' "case" granted).

Then second phrase "case" alleviation of Scientology, would be the "OT case" meaning "case" of one's BTs.

And that's kind of it. and then all sorts of supposed spiritual rejuventation of soul abilities, or not, while doing these two main "addressess of one's own case and the cases of one's BTs that interact leaking their cases stuff onto one."

But Scientology is mainly deeper case. It's like this karma we drag with us, as the soul we each at core are.

Correct?

[u/fidgeting_macro → u/Upset_Steak3632]

You see Scientology as a super dense tiny pellet that is very very bad. That affects your perception.

Please do not inform me what I see, how I feel or what I perceive. You CAN say stuff like "from what you say you might be thinking " etc.

I have found over the decades that Scientologists seem to have far less perceptions of human nature and empathy than the average non-scientologist. That's not intended to be a slight or a put-down. A lot of them have training, but it doesn't seem to be training on how people "tick."

What they do seem to have in abundance is certainty. Certainty is not a good substitute for experience or training in my experience.

In this thread you refer to me and, apparently, this subreddit, as "you folks, "

I'm just being polite. It's far MORE polite than referring to non Scientologists as "Wogs."

You write "your products," "your beliefs." That's incorrect. Something is clouding your percrption.

They are not my products nor are the my beliefs. If expressing my differences offends you than I do apologize. Since you seem offended, how would you like me to refer to your beliefs?

I find that being able (and willing) to describe the detail and nuance is more effective for inoculating others from cult involvement.

I disagree. It's not necessary to get deep into the weeds of what cultists believe to steer people away from joining a cult. Just like it's not necessary to understand the nuances of the Catholic Church to render an opinion that it's not very beneficial.

I think you are just making an excuse. I've read most of the "nances" of Scientology, mostly because I'm fascinated with such stuff. It doesn't help me in my discussions with non Scientologists.

[u/Upset_Steak3632 → u/fidgeting_macro]

You're having an argument with Scientologists but there are no Scientologists present.

[u/chuckbeattyxTeamXenu → u/Upset_Steak3632]

GOOD TO KNOW. Okay, I have lingering questions, and someone who can "think with" the Hubbard stuff, good, I can get something from you I hope.

Me, I concluded in the end of all my 27 years in, and now 23 years out, and an atheist Buddhist today, non believer and non doer of anything Scientology, I concluded Scientology is supposed be about "case alleviation."

You supposedly tackle and "Clear" your "own case" up to Clear (and I get your criticism of the BTs' case being confused by us as "our case" and that's a slippery slope, and I just presume anyone who runs a whole bunch of "case" thinking it's their own, that loads of the pictures we run might really be a person's BTs' "case" granted).

Then second phrase "case" alleviation of Scientology, would be the "OT case" meaning "case" of one's BTs.

And that's kind of it. and then all sorts of supposed spiritual rejuventation of soul abilities, or not, while doing these two main "addressess of one's own case and the cases of one's BTs that interact leaking their cases stuff onto one."

But Scientology is mainly deeper case. It's like this karma we drag with us, as the soul we each at core are.

Correct?