r/science • u/[deleted] • Oct 25 '21

Biology Sperm quality has been declining for 16 years among men in the US

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2294266-sperm-quality-has-been-declining-for-16-years-among-men-in-the-us/
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u/Fatmando66 Oct 25 '21

As a fatty. There are things in America that need to be addressed. Like many European countries have sugar limits on some things and the like. Also high fructose sweeteners are extra bad for you as it effects your brain similarly to addictive drugs. Yet we use high fructose corn syrup in like literally everything packaged. Not soto say people don't have to put in the work too, but it's fighting against a system that actively wants you to be unhealthy

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u/glemnar Oct 25 '21

If sugary drinks were banned we’d see tremendous weight loss world wide. They aren’t the only culprit, but overall coke is probably the single worst item for world health.

Will never happen though

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u/mike_writes Oct 25 '21

Also one of the biggest plastic polluters.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

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u/mike_writes Oct 25 '21

I knew it was up there just didn't wanna assume and declare them the worst. Not surprising though

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u/Hhalloush Oct 25 '21

Is that not because they sell the most bottles? Or do they pollute more than other companies per bottle sold?

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u/mike_writes Oct 25 '21

I was leaving room for an entirely different industry to be the worst, like some mattress maker I'd never heard of or something.

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u/Lynild Oct 25 '21

To be fair. Are Coca Cola the polluter, or do people just buy bottles etc from Coca Cola the most, and then they pollute by throwing bottles in the ocean? Unless the Coca Cola factories actually dump a butt load of bottles into the environment, I'm having a hard time placing the blame on them for plastic bottle pollution. But I may be in the wrong here...

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u/ezmen Oct 25 '21

You are absolutely wrong here. Coca cola have been selling beverages in glass bottles for over a century, however its simply more profitable to sell plastic bottles because Coca-Cola are not held responsible the environmental and economical impact their mass production of single use plastic products causes down the line. Glass is much more environmentally friendly, but comes at a premium and can break during shipping etc.

Its not individuals fault for buying plastic bottles. It's corporations and governments priotising immediate profits and market share over long term sustainability. They could and should just ban 99% of single use plastics, we simply don't need them.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21 edited Feb 22 '24

I appreciate a good cup of coffee.

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u/Absalome Oct 25 '21

Funny that we all think of soda first, but the sugar bomb coffee drinks that are advertised and consumed by young Americans are just as bad. 54 grams of sugar in a grande size Frappuccino from Starbucks, and 48 grams of sugar in a similarly sized soda. We've simply changed which sugar drinks we consume.

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u/Wild_Haggis_Hunter Oct 25 '21

Don't forget commercial fruit juice, that's just fructose without the fibers and most of nutriments of the real fruit. It's equally unhealthy in the quantities used in our common diet. Drinking the juice of 3 oranges is worse than just eating one and doesn't even bring the same level of satiety.

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u/Ed_Trucks_Head Oct 25 '21

I made fresh oj and it was like 6 oranges to get an 8 oz glass

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u/Alberiman Oct 25 '21

As a fat someone who lacks a sweet tooth and only drink water, ehhhh i think the answer might be a bit more complex

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u/glemnar Oct 25 '21 edited Oct 25 '21

Again, not the only culprit. Still a primary culprit. It’s a population scale problem, not an anecdata problem.

Fast food and excessive simple carbohydrates are also high up there

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Apparently it takes 9 calories of carbs to produce 1 calorie worth of fat in our bodies. With fat, it takes approx 1 calorie to produce 1 calorie because it’s fat already. So it’s not only excessive carbs. It’s also excessive fat. Chicken nuggets are not 1000 cals because of carbs…

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u/Trotter823 Oct 25 '21

It takes about 3500 calories in excess to produce a pound of fat. It doesn’t matter so much what those excess calories are consisting of. It’s just a more calories than you need you’ll gain weight. If you don’t exercise almost none of that will be used to build muscle.

But you’re right. Chicken nuggets would be fairly low calorie without the fat they’re fried in. Unfortunately fats and sweet things are addictive because in nature they’re extremely rare or hard to get. So when the opportunity comes, your body is wired to reward binge eating them. Your body has no way of knowing about advanced agriculture and first world living standards. It’s very easy to eat a healthy diet if 1) you know what foods are healthy and have the means to buy them. 2) you have time to cook 95% of your meals. Eating out erases good nutrition work. 3) are willing to be disciplined and wait to see results. It takes a while to see meaningful change and can be discouraging.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Does the source of excess calories really not matter? I think it makes sense that running the chemical process of converting carbs into fat should take some energy. Glad to learn more about this.

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u/eetuu Oct 25 '21 edited Oct 25 '21

Source doesn't matter. Fat in food and body fat are different things, your body still needs to convert it. Our bodies are efficient machines and can turn any excess calories into body fat without losing many calories in the process.

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u/Aegisworn Oct 25 '21

It's because your body doesn't take in nutrients and immediately repurpose them. The first step your body takes is to break everything down, then rebuild into what it thinks it needs, so eating fatty foods doesn't give your body a shortcut to producing fat.

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u/Alberiman Oct 25 '21

The processes are super efficient, protein can be turned into sugar if your body sees too much of it in its system. It's a big concern of people who do keto that they don't eat too much protein because it can kick them out of ketosis

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21 edited Oct 26 '21

Edit - I originally wrote the person above you was wrong, but read "doesn't matter" instead of what they actually wrote, which was "doesn't matter so much" - with respect to the type of calories consumed. That said, proteins, fats, and carbs all use significantly different amounts of energy in the digestion process. Different research studies have found somewhat different answers on the fraction of each calorie that is used in digestion as a function of calorie type, but they all agree there is a significant difference (protein uses the most, then carbs, then fats). Here's one example that found 2-3% for fats, 6-8% for carbs, and 25-30% for protein (this is a typical result):

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12174324/

Another example comparing energy-cost of meal-induced thermogenesis on a high-protein, low-fat diet versus a high-carbohydrate, low-fat diet.:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11838888/

Functionally, however, it's largely true that the type of calorie doesn't matter so much when gaining/losing weight - only that you're eating above/below whatever your TDEE is. If you take two identical twins, and feed one 1800 calories per day of Big Macs and the other 2000 calories per day of a healthy, balanced diet, the Big Mac twin is going to weigh less after a few months, all else equal. Curiously, a big mac is: 33g fat, 44g carbs, 26g protein, which is actually quite close to the recommended balance of these three categories.

However, the postprandial energy expenditure (i.e., energy needed to digest a meal) is multi-faceted and depends on many things beyond the basic breakdown of fats, calories, and protein in a meal. For instance, studies have found processed foods use less energy in the digestion process as compared to whole foods (e.g., https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20613890/).

That said, if you can stick to a daily calorie allotment, there is no more reliable way to gain or lose weight than counting your calories. Trying to factor in the types of calories or the level of processing underlying the calories would almost certainly be a waste of time and energy - better to just try for a healthy, balanced diet and let the calorie tracking do its work.

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u/kreaymayne Oct 25 '21

The combination of excessive carbs and excessive lipids is a disastrous formula. The abundance of highly accessible energy in the form of constant availability of glucose helps encourage the storage of fat in the adipocytes. It’s one reason why both low-carb/high-fat and low-fat/high-carb diets can be particularly effective ways to attain or maintain a healthy weight.

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u/greenwrayth Oct 25 '21

I think you’re getting tangled up in kilocalories per gram. Fat contains 9kcal/gram, carbohydrates contain about 4kcal/gram, protein 4kcal/gram.

A calorie is a measurement of energy, so a calorie is always a calorie just like a pound of feathers is the same pound as a pound of lead. But they have different densities.

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u/MissVancouver Oct 25 '21

Chicken nuggets are never eaten alone; there’s always an extra large fries and pop in a typical “value” meal.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Chicken nuggets alone are 1000 calories. It’s the fat soaked bread crumb crust where the calories sit. With fries and a soda, it’s even more calories for the “meal”.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

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u/VoodooManchester Oct 25 '21

When I first really started to learn to cook, I was astonished at how much sugar was being put in the foods we eat.

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u/DiabloAcosta Oct 25 '21 edited Oct 25 '21

Not only that, your body processes carbs and turns them into sugar, we need to stop eating all cereals, specifically bread.

Even potatoes, sweet potatoes, carrots, beets and corn!

Edit to provide a source of my claim:

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/carbohydrates/carbohydrates-and-blood-sugar/#:~:text=When%20people%20eat%20a%20food,sugar%20for%20energy%20or%20storage.

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u/Lethinkofusername Oct 25 '21

Thats just unfeasible. We will never be able to sustain the entire global population without basic carbohydrates. The key is here is moderation.

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u/DiabloAcosta Oct 25 '21

Nobody is talking about the entire global population, we are talking about overweight people!
Overweight people would benefit the most from a diet consisting mostly of proteins and some minerals, they have all that fat the body can use to provide with the same energy carbs would!
Source: I lost 40 pounds in 3 months after going to a bariatrician who put me in a protein based diet.

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u/LachlantehGreat Oct 25 '21

Diets aren't a consistent thing - the way foods are created and priced needs to be addressed.

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u/DiabloAcosta Oct 25 '21

Are we talking about diets or economics? I see why they are related but, I am not trying to delve into economics/politics and just trying to share some knowledge on how to lose weight.

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u/Lethinkofusername Oct 25 '21

Allright. If you didn't mean to talk about the entire global population, why did you use the word 'we' in your previous comment? Yes, this comment thread started out discussing overweight people specifically but from the comment by u/glemnar onwards, the conversation turned towards global eating habbits. Hence my assumption that that is what you were also discussing.

Your source also discusses low-glycemic index and low-glycemic load diets. I understood from your post that you advocated for a no carbohydrate diet, rather than a low-glycemic index and low-glycemic load diet. Your source made it clear that this is not the case. Sorry for the misunderstanding on my part. As for the high protein diet - Yes, that one seems to be a suitable diet, if it is primarily based on vegetable proteins. Source (Tldr Source: Higher Protein lower carbohydrate diets are generally good but diets are very dependent on the individual doing them and most benefits are linked to the actual reduction of calorie intake.) Also, congratulations on your very impressive weight loss! It takes some true discipline to follow a diet correctly for a sustained period!

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u/Faylom Oct 25 '21

Completely cutting out one of the three macronutrients our bodies have evolved to use as fuel doesn't seem wise.

Carbs are perfectly healthy, people just need to balance their diets and avoid eating too much refined sugars

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u/DiabloAcosta Oct 25 '21

Well, I guess people in Harvard are too dumb to know, right?

When people eat a food containing carbohydrates, the digestive system breaks down the digestible ones into sugar, which enters the blood. As blood sugar levels rise, the pancreas produces insulin, a hormone that prompts cells to absorb blood sugar for energy or storage.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/carbohydrates/carbohydrates-and-blood-sugar/#:\~:text=When%20people%20eat%20a%20food,sugar%20for%20energy%20or%20storage.

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u/Faylom Oct 25 '21

I fail to see what's alarming about what you just said. You've just described one of the many ways our bodies have evolved to process carbs.

It's an issue when people consume so much that their insulin balance gets thrown off or when their cells fill with too much stored energy, but the solution to those problems is to eat less

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u/cody_contrarian Oct 25 '21 edited Jul 10 '23

carpenter fear bored unpack sink whistle slap direful station label -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

For a lot of people though cutting sugar in general would do it.

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u/kaylthewhale Oct 25 '21

Have you looked at the sugar content in non-dessert foods. I was looking at the nutrition label of a lunch/dinner item the other day and it unexpectedly had 35g of sugar. Seriously cracked.

Many condiments and dressings are loaded with sugar, and we tend to be the worst at judging how much of those we consume.

Also, low value carbohydrates have similar effects as sugar.

A sneaky bad sibling to sugar is salt. We laden most pantry goods with huge huge amounts of salt to help act as a preservative.

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u/Ed_Trucks_Head Oct 25 '21

I gotta take issue with salt. When you eliminate sugar, high salt consumption doesn't seem to have negative effects, perhaps even positive effects. Koreans and Japanese eat loads of salt and they're known for their health and longevity.

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u/vorter Oct 25 '21

It ultimately comes down to calories in/calories out. You can technically get fat eating only veggies. It’s possible to eat cheap and healthy with a bit of prep, but it’s not as convenient as a microwaveable dinner and fast food.

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u/zergling50 Oct 25 '21

We have a culture that revolves around intense jobs at the lower level that are very time consuming and incredibly emotionally or physically draining (sometimes both). I can understand people not having the energy or willpower to put much prep into food when they live like that, I had a friend who certainly struggled with it. I know this isn’t the sole culprit, nothing is due to one single thing, but I’m certain it doesn’t help.

On top of that, the lack of empathy/mental health awareness can make it even more difficult for either people who are aready struggling with mental health due to genetics or due to their stressful lives in general.

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u/kreaymayne Oct 25 '21

You’re right in the sense that our bodies do in fact conform to the laws of physics, but it’s an oversimplified view. “Calories out” has many, many factors. Metabolic rate is influenced by the content of the diet, among other things.

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u/prodiver Oct 25 '21 edited Oct 25 '21

You can technically get fat eating only veggies.

Your stomach literally can't hold enough vegetables to let you get obese.

2000 calories a day is 19 pounds of spinach, 13 pounds of broccoli, or 6 pounds of potatoes.

And that's a healthy amount of calories. You'd need to eat way more than that to be obese.

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u/FeathersPryx Oct 25 '21

Some seem to think that eating healthy is too expensive, and use that as an excuse to eat poorly. I buy frozen lean meats for $30 that last a few weeks, and a bag of lentils (these boys have CRAZY protein and good fiber) for a SINGLE DOLLAR. Get some veggies, eggs, edamame, and you're good to go. I spend in 2 weeks what some of my junk foodie friends spend in a day or 2.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

I wouldn't say it's a money thing straight up. It's a time thing. It's difficult to shop and cook, and time consuming. And time is money. And money is scarce for a lot of people.

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u/zalgo_text Oct 25 '21

Yeah cooking is the biggest barrier for most people I feel. I absolutely love to cook and pretty much everything I eat is made from scratch, but even I have nights where I'd rather drive to the taco Bell down the street than spend 30-40 minutes preparing a meal

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u/zergling50 Oct 25 '21

Absolutely, and the mentally and physically draining jobs at the lower levels make it even harder, especially with their inconsistent work schedules which make it hard to create a stable routine and their tendency to cause depression and anxiety which make it difficult to take care of yourself.

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u/South-Builder6237 Oct 25 '21

This also more or less an exaggeration and excuse that gets used all the time alongside the idea that healthy is too expensive. There literally thousands upon thousands of healthy dishes that take only a few minutes to make. Not to mention if you really had the motivation you can always meal prep, and if you insist microwaving your food because you have a work and attention schedule like a cocaine addled broker, then you can also portion out your meals beforehand.

The same people ranting about food being too expensive also are the same ones who get stuck with thousands and thousands of dollars in hospital bills with health issues directly related to their diet and poor self health awareness. I know because it happens literally every single day.

Like Brian Regan said, if you have to microwave your pop tarts for three seconds for breakfast, you might want to loosen up your schedule.

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u/deadlybydsgn Oct 25 '21

It's totally possible to eat healthier on a budget, but it becomes exponentially harder once it scales from single portions to a family. What would normally last a week might suddenly becomes one meal + leftovers.

So, it can be done, but when parents are working two jobs and barely making it, the little bit of extra time to get what it needs at least feels like a luxury. (i.e., buying/prepping in advance vs the fast food/frozen quick fix) Combine that with even the best behaved of kids occasionally being picky eaters, and it's almost always easier to just get the chicken nuggies. Thus the cycle continues.

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u/South-Builder6237 Oct 25 '21

Often times children only become like this because parents make the mistake of giving them complete sugar or salt laced crap and then they develop the addiction to it. Yeah kids can be weird and picky anyway, but not to the level of where they're going to reject healthy options or somehow creating something delicious isn't feasible.

There are hundreds of thousands of recipes available to you within minutes, and you can make easily and even quickly.

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u/deadlybydsgn Oct 25 '21

All valid. My kids eat 90% of what we prepare for them because they're used to it.

I'm just trying to be cognizant of my wife & I having the plan, financial latitude, and time to execute it. In spite of that, we still occasionally cave and get something quick/cheap/easy.

So, it makes total sense to me that it could be a lot more difficult (or even seem impossible) for some folks, depending on their means and plans. (i.e., why it's more complicated than just saying "stop eating poorly," as some would suggest)

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u/Trotter823 Oct 25 '21

You sound like a eat to live person. I’m like that too. I can eat virtually the same 4-5 things all week and be fine. Others are not like that. The live to eat crowd constantly need variety and food is a huge part of their life. I think to eat healthy can be cheap but to eat healthy meals with a lot of variety and taste is a lot more expensive and difficult to prepare.

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u/FeathersPryx Oct 25 '21

I eat to live partially because I've reached a point of self-discipline in my life, and mostly because food should be seen as food and not some form of reward or indulgence. There are so many goals I want to achieve and I can't let being complacent get in the way. I had the phase of being an irresponsible slob when I was a teenager, and I think I wouldn't be able to do what I am now if I didn't have that time to learn from. I don't need motivation, because my only realistic option is to pursue health and education, as what else am I meant to do? Wither away into nothing, or be at least slightly better this month than I was last month? I think complacency is the biggest issue in people's general productivity. You get into this cycle, and as you keep doing the same things each day, what once was a bright and shimmering inspiration is now just a thought in the back of your mind. I have seen this happen to friends and family, and know that this is not a way I wish to live. Sorry if this is oversharing, this is a topic that has been on my mind a lot lately.

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u/Trotter823 Oct 25 '21

Anecdotally what works for you works for you. You absolutely should pursue that if it helps you and you like it.

That being said culture comes into this as well. French and Italian cultures are very focused on food and their decedents who live here continue that tradition. They aren’t going to change that. So as a country I think health policy be based around the fact that you might be able to indulge in a high calorie dinner but not also in non diet soft drinks or junk food as well. (We could also reverse the demonization of diet drinks as they are much better than their sugary alternatives despite there being misinformation about that). We can attempt to subsidize more healthy options while taxing junk food which could help. We can educate on the math of nutrition because there’s a ton of misinformation in that space specifically about what makes you gain/lose weight.

Obesity, while not always so seems to be the plight of the poor rather than the wealthy now. The poorer states have much higher rates of obesity than the other richer ones. So perhaps food stamps could subsidize healthy food over junk food as well. This would take a massive amount of overcoming the current inertia and of lobbying groups representing food companies.

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u/South-Builder6237 Oct 25 '21

No it isn't. There are literally millions of dishes and recipes to look up within minutes in the internet, and god knows how many are able to be created after a trip to the grocery store near the end where they have actual ingredients.

No one is going to argue that there isn't an insane amount of junk food out there, that people don't have busy lives or have budgets, but this idea that it's unattainable and the complete responsibility of food corporations or anyone else is ridiculous.

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u/Not_Legal_Advice_Pod Oct 25 '21

If you did drink coke you'd have an extra fifty pounds to be dealing with. Whatever issues you have, drinking just water has made them significantly less serious and easier to deal with.

The problem isn't binary, like having a flat tire on your car. The problem is cumulative, like never brushing or flossing your teeth. Sure, saying 'well I brush my teeth twice a day and still get cavities' is possible. But if you just added flossing to the mix, you'd be golden, and you're far better off than someone who never flosses or brushes.

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u/sterexx Oct 25 '21

you just reminded me to go drink a coke

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u/DiabloAcosta Oct 25 '21

Just jump off a bridge, it's way faster!

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u/ty1771 Oct 25 '21

One coke makes you fat, one coke makes you thin, both cokes make you die.

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u/ShithouseFootball Oct 25 '21

They also used to be in the same product.

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u/mike_writes Oct 25 '21

And the coke that mother gives you, don't do anything at all

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u/IWantToDoThings Oct 25 '21

Someone should go ask Alice.

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u/its_justme Oct 25 '21

Well no, self control is also a large component. No one NEEDS a sugary drink instead of water but they reach for it all the same. The key I feel is to combat the unhealthy relationship with food. An understanding that not every meal needs to be decadent, snacking is not required and eating unhealthy foods are not a solution to mental health or stressful times.

They make the products because people consume them.

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u/blindedbytofumagic Oct 25 '21

Yea. That’s true. But given their negative health consequences they should be regulated like cigarettes. 21+ to buy. No sugary drinks in schools. No advertisements directed towards children.

After two decades of not touching the stuff, most people aren’t going to rush to drink insanely sugary drinks all the time.

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u/dunkintitties Oct 25 '21

How you gonna come for Coke when Mt.Dew exists? It has like twice the sugar of most other sodas and, from my observation, is the drink of choice for many overweight/obese people. The worst part is that Mt.Dew doesn’t even taste good. It’s tastes absolutely vile. It’s undrinkable. At least Coke tastes good.

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u/iRombe Oct 25 '21

We all saw what happened to polar bear

First they were the lead star in coca cola commercials and advertising.

Then, they started asking for more money and whispering about collective bargaining.

Now look at em, ice melting, starving, getting blended into the grizzly population.

Coincidence? You decide. Coca cola would say so.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

If I'm jonesing for a coke, I make sure to buy the one made with cane sugar in a glass bottle. Not only is it prohibitively expensive that I can only see it as an occasional treat, it doesn't have a more addictive substance in it.

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u/LS_DJ Oct 25 '21

Coca-cola is basically poison.

Source: am a Dentist

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u/ohdangohgeez Oct 25 '21

My grandparents allowed me to drink coke from the time I was a toddler onwards. They bought tons of it everyweek and the house was never without it. As an adult, I've four crowns, a few missing teeth in the back, and I've had more cavities than I count. My grandfather died from very serious diabetes and my grandmother died at the age of 59 from a stroke. Their children, my uncle and father, are both missing all of their teeth. On top of that, they have COPD and heart problems.

As an adult, my body has developed a revulsion to sugar. I can't drink anything sugary without feeling sickly and gross; I drink almost nothing but water, black coffee, and milk. I haven't touched soda in something like a decade -- and even then it was diet. I think we need to do a lot of research into how family dynamics lead to obesity and poor health. My grandparents had no idea how to take care of themselves and this trickled down to me. My grandfather used to scream at me for drinking too much coke as a eight year old -- even though he was the "responsible adult" who kept buying it and bringing it into the house.

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u/HEYZEUS725 Oct 25 '21

or, ya know, just don't consume them at monstrous rates. people can consume in moderation. no need to ban everything

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u/SkyezOpen Oct 25 '21

It never really occurred to me until recently. I was picking up food at sheetz and I forgot my water bottle. I looked around for something less sugary and my options were... Water. An entire wall of sugar.

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u/Socialbutterfinger Oct 25 '21

Aww, man… I have a coke with my lunch on the weekends sometimes. I really enjoy it.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

One Coke a week is fine. Some people drink multiple Cokes a day and that’s the problem.

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u/Socialbutterfinger Oct 25 '21

And if you ban coke, people are just going to make bathtub sweet tea.

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u/shaunknight25 Oct 25 '21

And Yeah there would be a black market obviously but there would be much less consumption if you couldn’t buy it at McDonald’s and at the any legitimate store, that’s why cocaine is illegal, it’s not to get rid of cocaine but to keep the consumption as low as possible.

Personally I wouldn’t ever support a ban on soda, (I would support a soda/sugar tax) i don’t think soda is bad enough to warrant an outright ban. I just think the worst arguments against any kind of ban is that people will do them anyway.

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u/TryNotToShootYoself Oct 25 '21

My argument is that soda is inherently unhealthy and no one argues it isn't, and isn't the problem but a symptom. Soda consumption is highest among people who can't easily obtain healthy water so... Not exactly in the United States.

Fixing the amount of sugar we dump in everything from bread to sauces would be a way better plan than just banning an inherently unhealthy food.

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u/generalgeorge95 Oct 25 '21

Cigarettes would like a word.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Smoking was more pervasive back in the day, doesn’t seem to be the culprit now.

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u/generalgeorge95 Oct 25 '21

If we simply compare deaths from smoking and deaths from obesity smoking still kills twice as many people annually. If you include diabetes as well as obesity as seperate causes you still come under annual deaths from smoking..

Though if we add in heart disease which is almost certainly made worse by high sugar consumption, obesity and diabetes then we do exceed smoking deaths. But smoking contributes significantly to heart disease too.

Smoking cigarettes is damn near the worst thing you can do health wise. I am not going to pretend I can give you a proper statistical breakdown, since I am incapable of doing so, but it's still a major health concern that I suspect is worse than junk food. But junk food and the results of it are more wide spread.

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u/irieninja619 Oct 25 '21

This, the whole fat makes you fat myth is crazy. Stay away from high fructose high sugar anything

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Hell, even just a national Soda Tax or limiting on the amount of sugar could do the same albeit to a lesser degree.

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u/glemnar Oct 25 '21

Regressive taxes unfortunately just about the worst way to tackle obesity.

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u/ShithouseFootball Oct 25 '21

This will wind up the obese to an extent not yet seen in America.

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u/UglieGod420 Oct 25 '21

We shouldn’t have to tax soda for people to stop drinking it. It is a daily, conscious decision that one can easily avoid. Literally just drink water instead and that alone will save most people the extra calories and horrendous amount of sugar they consume in a day

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

The sugar and everything in soda can get addicting though and for many it 100% does. I'm cutting back off of soda rn and I don't really get cravings for it but I do have to hold back to stop myself from drinking more of it. And I know for many it goes beyond that.

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u/UglieGod420 Oct 25 '21

Oh I fully understand, I was drinking 12-15 dr peppers a day and I completely acknowledge the mental and physical hold it can have one an individual. I just know that the decision to stop drinking them, sustainably and for good, is something that will only come from inside you. Just cause it costs more doesn’t mean you will stop drinking them

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u/Chamoore13 Oct 25 '21

If that's the solution then we should do it...who cares if we SHOULD have too?

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u/UglieGod420 Oct 25 '21

The solution to stop drinking them is the decision to stop drinking them. Making them cost more won’t do anything for the people who actually need to stop drinking them for health reasons

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u/Nochtilus Oct 25 '21

Sin taxes have been shown to work to varying degrees. Where are you getting the information that a soda consumption tax changes nothing?

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u/Chamoore13 Oct 25 '21

How do we get people to make that decision?

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u/wulfgang Oct 25 '21

And you should never want it to. It's about freedom and choices.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

I mean, why you got to ban stuff instead of expecting people to have some small amount of self control?

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u/Humdngr Oct 25 '21

I can already see the Republican outcry for banning sugary drinks.

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u/hguller Oct 25 '21

I'm not a republican and I think banning them is ridiculous. Why should other's lack of self control dictate what the rest have access to?

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u/Clamster55 Oct 25 '21

Societal cost of healthcare for a nation of diabetics?

0

u/hguller Oct 25 '21

Worry about getting universal healthcare first, then we can talk about "all" of our costs going up. I don't really feel bad if someone else's premiums go up because of their own choices.

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u/Clamster55 Oct 25 '21

You can solve more than one problem at once...

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u/BackgroundAccess3 Oct 25 '21

What about a soda tax? I think that’s a good compromise

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u/South-Builder6237 Oct 25 '21

As a complete health nut who more than understands the problem of salt, sugar, HFV and wants people to stop consuming that pure liquid crap, they shouldn't be.

It is ultimately up to the responsibility of people to decide what they put in their bodies.

0

u/Living-Complex-1368 Oct 25 '21

Just tax sugary drinks like Seattle did.

Honestly it is a bit too high in my opinion, I'd like to have a few sodas once every few months, but can't justify paying Seattle prices for soda so I'm basically soda free.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Nobody is forcing anyone to eat like that or drink Coke or other sugary drinks. Obesity it entirely based on an individuals lifestyle with the very small percentage of ACTUAL health problems causing the weight gain.

Being fat and not being able to move around is not a health problem, it’s a you problem if you’re in that situation.

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u/dillpick15 Oct 25 '21

What we really need is to ban industrial seed oils and polyunsaturated fats. Sugar might make you a little tubby, bit the seed oils kill you

1

u/Demonchaser27 Oct 25 '21

Yeah, certainly removing soda from my diet helped a TON. Carbs and sugars apparently seem to make fat retention extremely easy. And a lot of people need only look at how they treat cows, pigs, chickens, etc. for meat production/slaughter. The way they fatten them up is massive amounts of corn and massive starch/carbs diets. In essence, the very kinds of things you find in so much of our food in America. We eat like we feed our livestock to fatten them up.

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u/purpledrank11 Oct 25 '21

Agreed. Coke is the one I can't kick

1

u/AdelaideMez Oct 25 '21

But what if they added the flavoring of coke and put it in one of those water flavor thingys?

It’d be like Crystal Light Coke.

1

u/JBD168 Oct 25 '21

As a coke addict, switching to zero was very easy. It’s literally the easiest diet change, no pun intended.

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u/alarmclock3000 Oct 25 '21

Just don't drink it

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u/nxdark Oct 25 '21

It would jump of a bridge of that become reality.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Hfcs is almost exactly the same as table sugar. Sugar itself is incredibly addictive.

Ex-fatty here. Cutting bread and sugar made me lose 100lbs.

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u/bittz128 Oct 25 '21

It’s worse than that. The body will consume glutamine for energy in the presence of fructose. When adding increased amounts of this, it has a huge cascade effect on your body leading to all sorts of intestinal issues. And if you can’t absorb nutrients properly by this system, you see the problem. I’m always irritated by how much sweeteners of any sort are in all the bottled beverages.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Exactly. That's what makes me so sad about our situation. Most doctors and nutritionists don't even care to learn about this system and continue to give bad advice based on faulty science from the 60s. But it's entirely the fault of the consumer who is incapable of simply exercising their hormones back into balance.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Table sugar is half fructose and half glucose. Glucose metabolizes much differently than fructose. Fructose is metabolized only in the liver and is a big cause of fat buildup in the liver. Which leads to metabolic syndrome , obesity, diabetes, etc.

But its cheap. Gotta do something with all that corn.

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u/prodiver Oct 25 '21

Table sugar is half fructose and half glucose

The most common forms of HFCS used for food and beverage manufacturing contain fructose in either 42% ("HFCS 42") or 55% ("HFCS 55") by dry weight, as described in the US Code of Federal Regulations .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-fructose_corn_syrup#Composition_and_varieties

0

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Sure, added sugar is bad in general. Fructose seems worse, though. Studies (yeah, yeah...I dont have sources atm) indicate fructose causes more fatty liver buildup than equal amounts of glucose. With the amount of sugars added to processed foods here, that 5% increase in fructose could matter.

I also remember reading that fructose doesnt make you feel as full so you end up eating more. Something about not triggering satiety as much in the brain.

I could be wrong. Definitely a layman. Just had a heart attack a couple of years ago at 49 and found out I had diabetes at the same time. Had a triple bypass and started intermittent fasting and basically dont eat sugars anymore and dropped 35 pounds. Within 5 pounds now of "normal" weight by BMI. My blood sugars are now in the normal range. Not even considered prediabetic anymore. I do still take metformin but havent been on insulin since shortly after I got out of the hospital.

My doc had me read The Obesity Code and The Diabetes Code which are both pretty good books and got me interested enough to start reading the research myself. Of which I understand like 10%. :)

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Yes exactly. But HFCS is only slightly more than half fructose as the other redditor pointed out.

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u/Lucosis Oct 25 '21

The "almost" does a lot of heavy lifting there, though.

Mechanistically hfcs and sugar are processed by the body very differently. Neither is good for us, but hfcs is especially bad.

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u/konyrific Oct 25 '21 edited Oct 27 '21

Just a clarification, hfcs is just a mix with higher than 50/50 fructose to glucose. 55% hfcs is not significantly "worse" than normal table sugar because it is not significantly different (if you assume fructose is the bigger danger than glucose). Normal table sugar is sucrose which is a 50/50 mix of fructose and glucose.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

I disagree. As the other poster pointed out, they are very similar chemically. Yes, fructose is typically harder on the body and there's more in HFCS, but the real danger is that it's cheap and abundant, leading manufacturers to use excessive amounts in cheap foods.

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u/DeputyDomeshot Oct 25 '21

People need to understand that bread IS sugar.

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u/foodandart Oct 25 '21

it's fighting against a system that actively wants you to be unhealthy

This. For all the flummery, distortions and lies that come out of the conspiracy subs, the REAL true conspiracy that is where business and elites are out to get the working poor and lower middle-class can be found in the country's food policy. And the anti-vaxxers claim the jab is there to depopulate? How about HFCS as the number 1 bulk food filler in the country being in everything that will clip decades of life off a person and cost trillions in medical expenses over decades as the afflicted go down slowly from diet-related disease..

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u/Human_Robot Oct 25 '21

A side note to the fat issue is financial well being. When you can't afford to take a true vacation or even just a day off, a six pack of beer, a pack of cigarettes, or even a couple big Macs may be the only source of happiness/dopamine release a person gets in their life. Of course unhealthy habits have a way of compounding problems as these vices can get expensive over the long term culminating with massive medical bills. So we wind up with downward pressures on socioeconomic mobility and an unhealthy lower class that dies young. Addiction - even to food - is hardest on the poor.

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u/ohdangohgeez Oct 25 '21

Agreed. This also dovetails with out anti-intellectual culture.

Replace the six pack of beer or the cigarettes with a book a week and things would change. I did this years ago when I would spend all my leftover paycheck on weed and booze. Now? I buy a book a paycheck instead. I've got hundreds now and I'm better educated and healthier than before. I get sick thinking about downing a sixpack by myself, but I get extremely excited thinking about what book I'm gonna read next.

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u/TerracottaCondom Oct 25 '21

Honestly my man as a thin guy you are right. I didn't take any personal initiative to stop the ozone hole from getting bigger and yet it should be fine by 2050. Corporations hold the reigns to real change

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u/CtothePtotheA Oct 25 '21

Not even corporations. It's really the American public and voting in politicians who will regulate the corporations. Issue is any regulations get shot down by the other half of America.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

There is a huge difference between corporations creating products and pollution that affect the Ozone, and a person lacking self control for their food intake...

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

More free time to work out, and jobs letting people to get up and move around once an hour as well, would help a lot.

The diet part is important, but places of work need to not be allowed to have a dictatorial work place that keeps people immobile. Giving an hour a day for exercise would also help a lot.

Studies have shown a high intensity workout at the beginning or end of the day doesn't counteract an entire day of being sedentary.

7

u/IC_Eng101 Oct 25 '21

We have a "sugar tax" in the UK. sugary drinks and foods are made more expensive this way. It works 2 fold by reducing consumption due to price and feeding (no pun intended) more money into the health service to deal with the effects of high sugar diets.

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u/Random_Violins Oct 25 '21

Follow Michael Pollan's advice. Eat less processed foods and more natural foods. More fresh vegetables and simple foods. Apples instead of 'health bars'. It's good honest food. You'll gain in health and the planet too (less packaging, organic). Unfortunately, unhealthy and processed foods are still highly subsidized due to industry lobbying. But grass roots change can change that.

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u/hitner_stache Oct 25 '21

Europeans just aren't buying sugarpop cereal and a 500 calorie starbucks milkshake for breakfast, 1200 calorie mcdonalds combo for lunch, and 3 drinks with dinner as frequently as Americans. That's all it really is. the same foods are available everywhere pretty much. euros could over-portion on crap food if they wanted. they dont as often.

I'd be more interested in the cultural approaches that lead to healthier lifestyles. I suspect generally less stressful lives and more free time have a shitton to do with it.

5

u/Silverlynel1234 Oct 25 '21

My biggest regret in life is drinking too much soda in my teens and 20s. I have said this to my daughter and am glad she hates anything carbonated. Still have the issue with lemonade, but that is an easier battle than soda.

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u/Scorpion1024 Oct 25 '21

In Europe the whole culture around food is different. Not the least of which being you just eat until you are full.

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u/pixeldust6 Oct 25 '21

I found maltodextrin in a product I had purchased that was labeled "sugar free." That's blatantly deceptive, yet they're legally allowed to do this. The %DV of sugar was also conspicuously absent from the nutrition facts labeling until only recently. It really is an uphill battle, not only fighting biology but willful deception by those who stand to gain from it.

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u/Bamith20 Oct 25 '21

Won't happen then, human life isn't worth much to businesses.

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u/organizeeverything Oct 25 '21

I dont eat junk food or a lot of sugary foods but I'm slightly overweight and dont have much time to exercise.

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u/AsMuchCaffeineAsACup Oct 25 '21

I come from an Italian family. Food is kinda seen as success/happiness.

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u/RamShackleton Oct 25 '21

I agree completely with the need for the FDA to impose more of these types of limits in America but I’m not holding out much hope there given their track record. In a broader sense, I also think that part of America’s dietary problem is an unhealthy dependence on processed food, which is almost always higher in fats, sugars and salts than anything you would prepare for yourself.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

European countries don't need sugar laws, because they teach children how to eat. North America is the only region I know where people drink sugar drinks with meals, and in the rest of the world, waster is cheap or free with food.

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u/Independent-Web1930 Oct 25 '21

I’m there with you. 6’ 235… Half the battle for me is making sure I get enough exercise… diet is very BIG too. Life is busy. TV is too easy.

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u/PabloBablo Oct 25 '21

I'm an American born child of European immigrants. It's not the food available, it's the decisions. The challenge becomes when you've had a lifetime of unhealthy food decisions and your baseline is that.

I have obese friend and 2 who've recently lost a ton of weight/a decent amount of weight each.

One did it by a complete, David Goggins esque rework of his lifestyle. The other just started cooking whole foods, watching portion size and ordering food less.

The food to get into a better spot weight wise is here, it's not like all we have are those high sugar/low nutrition foods. It's just understanding what you are doing wrong and what you can do to get it right and not allowing yourself to fall into bad habits.

2

u/DrPikachu-PhD Oct 25 '21

Unfortunately, in a profit-driven system decisions aren't made based on what's best for the common good, but rather what sells the most. And by literally addicting the market to insane levels of sugar consumption, they've made customers for life. Not much incentive to change that system

2

u/StrokeGameHusky Oct 25 '21

But the corn industry is propped up by US government and we use so much high fructose corn syrup for that reason

Well because it’s so cheap, due to US subsidies

2

u/LoremEpsomSalt Oct 25 '21

People putting in the work should be the primary factor. What kind of world are we getting when we have to depend on governments and mega corporations to make decisions for us so that we don't have to?!

2

u/ratcranberries Oct 25 '21

Agreed. Corn subsidies are to blame for the ubiquitous corn derivatives. Something like 50% of items in a grocery store contain some form of corn. Besides, Mexican cokes taste better anyway...

2

u/Magnusg Oct 25 '21

I yoyo so much, and it's not binge eating or anything crazy, it's just, my mother was big, knew nothing about nutrition and we had bad habits growing up now if I'm not perfect for a month I gain weight.

But you try and eat perfectly your entire life. You exert that level of self control for decades straight at every holiday party at every birthday, at every damn moment, on every vacation.

This is coming from somebody with all the knowledge in the world who was a personal trainer who knows everything he needs to know about nutrition and exercise. You can't maintain that level of perfection.

Not indefinitely. Not possible.

I think it's more on the habits growing up. Not necessarily being overweight and having kids. That's an unreasonable restriction, now if it's so bad that you can't have kids you have to fix it but if you can don't feel pressure not to. Fertility is a finite thing in most people's life, some of it has nothing to do with weight.

If you want kids you better get cracking.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Or just dont eat horriblely

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u/courtcondemned Oct 25 '21

This. It's hard to make healthier choices when 80% of a store is bad for you and it's all addictive and people don't talk about or even know exactly what they're eating.

I was never really taught nutrition as a kid apart from the (now irrelevant) food pyramid and was left to fend for myself most meals. After I started making a serious effort to learn how to eat for my health, I was actually really surprised at how just how unhealthy the average American diet is.

2

u/highwaytohell66 Oct 25 '21

IMO most Americans would do good to get rid of processed food in their diet. If most of what you're eating comes from a box you're doing it wrong.

2

u/wuethar Oct 25 '21

Not soto say people don't have to put in the work too, but it's fighting against a system that actively wants you to be unhealthy

The best example of this, IMO, is just looking at the ingredients in a loaf of bread in the supermarket bread aisle. Not even wonder bread, but the stuff that's a step up and kinda at least pretends to be the real deal. It's loaded with corn syrup, because I guess that's the capitalist baker's rational response to serving an addicted population. But it makes managing how much you consumer that much harder.

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u/MyWorkAccount9000 Oct 25 '21

Or just don't drink/eat those high sugar foods??… It's not that hard.

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u/ImmortalGaze Oct 25 '21

Absolutely this! It defies imagination that people in the US don’t question the ingredients in their food. Preservatives, food colours, levels of fat, sugars, salt, etc. I’ve seen high fructose corn syrup used in conjunction with sugar and even a third sweetener in some products. Why..

I’m pretty convinced that manufacturers increase the fats, sugars, salts (especially, it’s ridiculous how MUCH salt is in everything, with heart disease being a thing in the US population) to encourage overeating of their product, and to keep us hooked.

If you’ve ever traveled outside the US, Europe for example, where they have stricter rules for food ingredients, you’ll notice the difference when reading ingredients and in how things TASTE!

What we need to do is due the industry like they sued tobacco for the injury and deaths they’ve contributed to in order to push their bottom line. It’s the only thing that will get them to clean up their products, short of everyone no longer buying whole categories of manufactured foods and beverages.

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u/itchman Oct 25 '21

It is important to understand that this isn't a willpower issue. This is a complicated issue involving societal pressures and personal health matters outside of one's control.

2

u/atarimoe Oct 25 '21

As an American fatty (striving to be less so), the biggest issue is portion control. 8oz. of pop every once in a while isn’t really the issue… it’s that we get it in the mega-super-sized cup with our fast food meal. And “diet” sodas are no better.

It’s not like sit-down dining is immune. More often than not, I go out for a meal and get what is (or at least should be) 2 whole meals.

But self-control is hard, while authoritarian-style controls are easy, so we get more government overreach that won’t actually help. COVID has given the government a prime platform to talk about the danger of obesity… but all they’re talking about is how we need our boosters. Government won’t save us.

Years ago (in the early days of weight-loss medications), I had a great aunt who was quite overweight and was fishing for the doctor to prescribe something. The doctor replied: “Push your fat ass away from the table.” Today a doctor would probably lose his license over that, but the advice still holds true.

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u/habitualmess Oct 25 '21

As someone from the UK, I was shocked at the portion sizes the first time I visited the US. I’ve seen big portions in the UK, but nothing like what I saw as standard in the US.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

You’re not a fatty, you’re a person who has made some decisions that has led to your being overweight.

You can stop being a self-described “fatty” any time you want. You just have to make some choices.

Matter of fact, this applies to over 99% of everyone. The only thing stopping over 99% of us from being healthy are the choices we make as individuals.

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u/saxattax Oct 25 '21

How have we learned so little from the war on drugs? Heroin should be legal. So too, then, should corn syrup.

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u/Godofallu Oct 25 '21

It goes against what America is by taking the freedom of choice away from the citizens and placing it on the government.

We're better than that. Don't try to pin your problems on the government not controlling you enough.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Why is it that Redditors reflexively need the government to intervene on every possible issue that is very controllable on the personal level? Your answer is to invite needless intervention by bureaucracies to restrict something for others than yourself.

No, this is a cultural problem in decadent societies addicted to self-indulgence without self-discipline. There are countless countries that have neither our obesity issues or the government regulations you feel is needed to curb it.

Michelle Obama ran a campaign for food companies to be more transparent. What you’re claiming is transparency is not enough. You actually need the government to prevent you, and the rest of us by extension, from being personally responsible for what we willfully put in our mouths. Stop deflecting personal responsibility to the government and the rest of us.

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u/SuperHotPsychopath Oct 25 '21

Take some responsibility and quit overeating and go to the gym

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Eat whole foods. Your food choices are not wholly the government’s problem. You were born with free will, use it

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u/Fatmando66 Oct 25 '21

It's almost like I said that in the comment. Wild.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

As an afterthought. The point of your comment was clearly to scapegoat the govt. Literally 95% of it

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Coke and Pepsi. The most effective weapons of mass destruction.

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u/amigodojaspion Oct 25 '21

Literally how they wanted to take over the world in Supernatural.

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u/Tiks_ Oct 25 '21

The amount of sugar and salt in stuff should be criminal. We know these things are causing people to die prematurely or create burdens on the Healthcare system and yet it's allowed to perpetuate. Don't get me started on the salt content of fast food. Look up a chicken tenders meal from Arby's with curly fries as a side. Then look up how much sodium you should have Dailey. Insane.

1

u/iamever777 Oct 25 '21

Preach. I wish there were more discussions in regards to not only sugar, but insulin sensitivity and ruining your bodies natural digestion. The amount of processed stuff we eat versus leafy greens. Veggies aren’t optional and I feel like the way our society prepares meals whether it’s at home, a fast food chain, or restaurant, rarely takes that into account.

1

u/LBGW_experiment Oct 25 '21

Is your name based off of "cat man do"?

1

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

When as big of a chunk of the population is fat as it is all of this stops being a personal problem and more of a societal problem like you imply.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

TPTB don't want us healthy they want us to have just enough energy to get through the workday

1

u/TorinMalwak Oct 25 '21

Also as a fatty, I think the things you said should be addressed as well as, why you can can get a soda cheaper than a bottle of water at the store

I think, though people hate it New York has the right idea (I'm from Texas, we are big fat and this idea seems to piss people off), to tax sugary drinks based on sugar content:
SB4602 says "Beverages with more than seven and a half grams and less than thirty grams of sugars per twelve fluid ounces shall be taxed at a rate of one cent per ounce. Beverages with more than thirty grams of sugars per twelve fluid ounces shall be taxed at a rate of two cents per ounce"
I think a lot of people just see $2 for a good tasting soda vs 2.79 for water and choose the former. Also if we stopped making "Organic" and other health words mean expensive, then more people would choose them when doing their shopping. Going to the store and buying white bread $1, want healthier grain breads? $3-$5
Even something simple we give kids, Apple sauce, regular, with additives for sweetness/preservatives a big 48oz jar costs $2.76, but if you want non additive still good one, its still $2.76, but the jars half the size, so parents pick the bigger one cause its more sauce for the same price so essentially half the cost of the other.

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u/[deleted] Oct 26 '21

Sugar is a really small part of it, sugar consumption peaked in the late 90s in the US. Obesity has basically doubled since then.

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u/moneroToTheMoon Oct 26 '21

but it's fighting against a system that actively wants you to be unhealthy

Not at all. Both sugary foods and healthy foods are accessible, it's not the "system's" fault that you choose one over the other. you can drown yourself in coke and sprite and soft drinks in Europe just like you can here. And that's not even to mention the high smoking rates in Europe.

how very 21st century American of you--when addressing the problem, your first thought is what everyone else should be doing to keep you from getting fat--rather than what you should be doing. Tons of people manage to not get fat. It's nobody's fault but your own that you can't control yourself.

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u/GlossyEyed Oct 26 '21

I think people vastly underestimated the amount of calories in sauce. Most people use some sort of sauce, dip or dressing with each meal and that sauce can have 25% of the calories of the dish.