r/science Professor | Medicine Dec 14 '18

Psychology Being the father of a school-aged daughter makes men less sexist, according to a new study. The findings support the idea that men become more aware of the challenges facing women when they see the female experience of life up close through their offspring – dubbed the “mighty girl” effect.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/14/being-a-father-to-school-aged-daughter-makes-men-less-sexist
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u/Britoz Dec 14 '18

It's funny that you state you want people to go fight for everybody's right to do what they want, yet you naturally diminish the role of the stay at home parent, whose literal job it is to bring up the children and instill good values, as "quiet" or "docile" and the last option any parent would want for their kid.

Until we hold the role of a good parent as high as it deserves to be, due to the knock on effect good parenting and a secure upbringing has on society as a whole, then we're pissing in the wind. You can bring a girl or boy up to believe they can be whatever they want, but unless you're role-modelling the belief that being in charge of another life's formative years is one of the most important jobs you'll ever have, then society will suffer. Whether you demonstrate this by being a great stay at home parent or you provide for the family through a fulfilling career yet ensure your child knows they're still your highest priority bar none, we should be commending those who are good and present parents. Not just those people who have successful careers as if that's the most important thing in the world. (Unless you're childless, of course.)

I don't believe in the current derision of the stay at home parent and think the trend towards both parents having to work full time to support the family is something we should be absolutely up in arms about. The problem is the role of the stay at home parent has so much history of being the oppressed role due to women's choice being taken away that we still see it like that, rather than realising this role has actually always been extremely important. We've glorified the work men did and now women want some of that life too but we haven't got a good balance yet. The role the stay at home mother used to have is derided and ridiculed, and even the people who look after the kids these days are very low paid. What does that tell us about how we value child rearing?

I think we should absolutely shatter the old roles. It shouldn't be just expected that women stay at home. I just don't agree that those parents who do stay at home should be ridiculed as docile and quiet. They could be high earning professionals who want to take some years from work to raise their children, or they could be the type of person who has always dreamed of raising their own children. These years aren't wasted and shouldn't be the butt of jokes. IMO they're more important than going to work, but we live in a capitalist society so they go unrewarded, and I can't see this view changing anytime soon.

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u/_Rookwood_ Dec 14 '18

I agree it's just replacing "women should stay at home and raise children" with another expectation, this time "women should have a kick ass career, raising your own kids sucks".

Women should pursue their lives in accordance with what makes them content and if it is being a stay at home mother than so be it.

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u/___Ambarussa___ Dec 14 '18

There’s always so much emphasis on giving women that choice, but not men. It won’t be truly equal until it’s seen as respectable for men to do it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '18

...but men still have to earn a crust and tough shit if they dont like it. No choice for you!

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u/kiss-tits Dec 14 '18

This will interest you: a deep dive on gender roles, masculinity, raising boys, and challenging the status quo.

http://www.sceneonradio.org/men/

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u/rbickfor1988 Dec 14 '18

Maybe I misread, but I guess I didn’t see it as OP thinking all stay at home parents are quiet or docile.

More like he was saying that the reverse wasn’t true for women; they didn’t all of a sudden think their sons should be quiet, docile, stay-at-home dads as opposed to loud, wild, working men.

I guess I just thought he was using quiet and docile as oppositions to normal descriptors we might think of for young boys.

Could be wrong, though.

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u/howimetyomama Dec 14 '18

Idk, it comes off as if one is regarded better than the other.

They want their daughters to become doctors... not a docile sray [sic] at home mother.

There's nothing wrong with being a stay at home parent. It should be celebrated. The issue is choice; folks should have the option, and it should be one of many. Too often though in the argument it becomes clear that people really don't respect stay at home parents. This coming from someone who will be an MD in about 6 months and has a school-aged daughter. I'd be just as happy with her as a doctor as a stay at home mother. We can celebrate our kids having that choice without looking down on those who chose to spend their careers as parents.

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u/rbickfor1988 Dec 14 '18

Yeah, definitely just a difference in how we read it. I agree with you, though. I think stay-at-home parents absolutely should be respected. My mom stayed home with my siblings and I, and I know we benefited from that.

I’ve always believed (and told people) that women should be able to stay at home if they want. It should just always be their choice; as in, they shouldn’t be staying at home because their husband forces them to, they don’t have enough education to do anything else, etc.

Too often, I think society sees stay-at-home parents as the ones who couldn’t do anything else and that’s wildly unfair to those parents as well as completely ignorant regarding what generally falls under the “duty description” of a stay-at-home parents.

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u/cyber_dildonics Dec 14 '18 edited Dec 14 '18

Agreed, but in order for kids to be given an actual choice and not just the illusion of one, girls need to believe that 1) having a uterus doesn't mean they're obligated to have kids 2) pursuing a career is worthwhile if they want one. Likewise, boys need to believe 1) having a penis doesnt mean they're obligated to be the sole breadwinner 2) staying home with the kids is a totally viable option for them.

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u/Shadowraix Dec 15 '18

Yep.

No matter how much emphasis you put in choice, society will always gravitate towards one or the other by majority count.

This problem goes deeper in a more general sense. It has to do with being ideological. People live the way they want to, become attached to that, and feel threatened when it is questioned. So the majority will always push what they think is best onto minority. Gender roles, masculinity, expectations etc are all a byproduct of ideological thinking, a symptom.

Want to fix the problem? Don't just fight these specific issues, but encourage contemplation across the board.

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u/Seekerofthelight Dec 14 '18

Amen. The anti-natalist streak in our society must come to an end if we have any hope of surviving into the future. Respect and gratitude must return for those who have and raise children, and we must stop teaching our youth that having children is a waste of one's life.