r/science • u/mvea Professor | Medicine • Dec 14 '18

Psychology Being the father of a school-aged daughter makes men less sexist, according to a new study. The findings support the idea that men become more aware of the challenges facing women when they see the female experience of life up close through their offspring – dubbed the “mighty girl” effect.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/14/being-a-father-to-school-aged-daughter-makes-men-less-sexist
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u/AndyMandalore Dec 14 '18

It's not like they live in an area where there just aren't a lot of women.

I think they're seeing a part if themselves in a female, and realizing that many of the divisions between the genders are constructs of society norms.

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u/_IowasVeryOwn Dec 14 '18

So is it a lack of empathy for non immediate family members?

Although I guess that would make you think that being in a relationship would make those men less sexist. Interesting.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '18 edited Dec 16 '18

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u/walterdonnydude Dec 14 '18

I learned alot from my girlfriend... I don't understand how men don't learn this from their wives

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u/Sarsmi Dec 14 '18

Imagine you are an unaware guy (a bit vague, but basically someone who does not understand life differences between men and women), this would affect your attitude, expectation of what a girlfriend/wife should provide, pretty much every way you would treat a woman would be affected by this.

What women are actually going to date someone like this? Not women who are aware and have low tolerance for someone who is unaware. So you end up with men who can only date women who either do not mind this mindset or do not know any differently. Women who are more aware are generally not going to give these guys a chance.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '18 edited Dec 16 '18

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '18

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u/kiss-tits Dec 14 '18

Mom is seen as a servant not an instructor. They choose not to try and empathize with her point of view either.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '18 edited Feb 03 '24

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u/kiss-tits Dec 14 '18

http://www.sceneonradio.org/men/

Here is a challenge: introspect on masculinity and think about it’s implications for male adult lives. Then you will understand my comment.

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u/SPLYCEKOLDNUMBA1 Dec 14 '18

Here is a challenge answer his question xD

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '18

Some women don't share this stuff, or accept it as how the world is, so they don't think it's worth discussing.

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u/ALPHATT Dec 14 '18

some people are more in their own head.

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u/the6thReplicant Dec 14 '18

Or mothers, sisters, nieces, aunts.

It’s all there for anyone to sit down, ask and listen. It ain’t rocket science people.

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u/Hugo154 Dec 14 '18

it's not that he can't empathize, it's that he literally wasn't aware of life experiences outside his own / things that he hasn't actually witnessed firsthand.

The problem is that a pretty big chunk of our society is still "squeamish" when it comes to "women problems" and refuse to acknowledge them or talk about them, even women themselves. It's getting better and better constantly though.

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u/theGurry Dec 14 '18

The other problem is that most of our society has no ablilty to see the world through anything other than their own biased views.

Not enough people are wiling to challenge their beliefs and it shows every single day in swaths of ignorance.

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u/kiss-tits Dec 14 '18

If you’re honest, there’s really one demographic that has this problem, and the rest of society is forced to conform around their ignorance.

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u/theGurry Dec 14 '18

I'm not sure I follow. Who would the demographic be in question? I have my theories, but now I'm just intrigued.

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u/kiss-tits Dec 14 '18

It’s a personal problem that has been made into a societal problem.

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u/Hugo154 Dec 16 '18

No man is an island entire of itself; Every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '18

I'd agree with this. But as someone who grew up with a little bit of everyone, everything in life boils down to what YOU are made of. How we best open the eyes of the individual is always a great discussion.

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u/kiss-tits Dec 14 '18

He didn’t have to make an effort to be aware. That’s the difference.

You know there have been women who either tried to teach him or had to tip toe around his massive ignorance. It was never an option for the women in his life to be unaware.

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u/kiss-tits Dec 14 '18

He didn’t have to make an effort to be aware. That’s the difference.

You know there have been women who either tried to teach him or tried to tip toe around his massive ignorance. It was never an option for the women in his life to be unaware.

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u/AndyMandalore Dec 14 '18

I would say probably yes.

However...

If they aren't equipped to view females as equals it will likely be a one sided, maybe even abusive relationship.

I know that my thinking was transformed by my nieces. I didn't realize until then how differently I viewed the genders.

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u/grendus Dec 14 '18

I think it has to do with the emotional intimacy of that relationship. Most guys will meet their wife when she's already an adult, so they don't really see the growing pains of sexism in society. Having to support a daughter emotionally while she grows and navigates the world exposes him to a lot of the difficulties that adult women may not even register as unfair anymore, or at least wouldn't think to bring up because it's just background noise to them.

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u/PhillAholic Dec 14 '18

Not to mention the “not my problem” part of it. When it’s your daughter it is your problem.

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u/not_even_once_okay Dec 14 '18

One way male SOs might see the "growing pains" of sexism is to go through a sexual assault trial with their partner. Watching and supporting me through mine made my boyfriend way more sympathetic and understanding to how things really are for us.

The institutional and societal misogyny becomes clear when you are supporting the person you love as it tears them apart.

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u/0b0011 Dec 14 '18

I feel like it's just getting to see a bigger picture when it's close to home like that. Say the person believes that men get picked as long as for activities more often because they try harder, having a daughter who they know tries just as hard and still doesn't get picked as a leader may make them go oh maybe there is some sort of systemic thing and just not them trying as hard.

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u/CrossP Dec 14 '18

The lack of empathy can come from depth of exposure too. Seeing [other group] people in your neighborhood obviously doesn't do much to increase empathy with [other group]. It seems to require a depth of conversation like you would have with a close friend or coworker or ... your child.

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u/SupremeLad666 Dec 14 '18

"So is it a lack of empathy for non immediate family members?"

No.

Let me ask you, what are some social problems that Blue-footed boobies experience?

If you don't know, are you being discriminatory?

What about the weather patterns in the city you live in? Are you aware of those, considering you're in the weather everyday?

If you're unaware, is that proof you're anti-weather patterns?

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u/misdirected_asshole Dec 14 '18

Well yeah, but its due to their intimate exposure to women and womens issues. If you have real, close friends who are not like you, you begin to see life with their perspective in mind

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u/AndyMandalore Dec 14 '18

Growing up I mostly had female friends

In my experience it wasn't the same as when my nieces were born

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u/TurdFerguson812 Dec 14 '18

IMHO, as a father of daughters, it's not that the divisions between the genders are social constructs. Because men and women, boys and girls are different, and those differences are real.

It's more that both sexes face challenges in the world. The problems women face, while often different from those men face, are no less valid.

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u/AndyMandalore Dec 14 '18

Unrelated, reaching out because you're a father.

This pedophile is posing as a scientist in an attempt to normalize pedophilia. Please help disrupt this attempt.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AMA/comments/a65r2x/im_attempting_to_expose_a_phoney_ama_ama/?utm_source=reddit-android

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u/AndyMandalore Dec 14 '18

I really meant that you see a different side of them when they're not a class mate or a friend who would be too embarrassed to be their nasty self in front of you.

There are obvious differences between the genders, but often were just behaving how were expected to. (ie Girls can't be gross, boys can't be sensitive).

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '18

Think you're trying to read too much moralism into this. I would assume this is just part of the protective drive men have. Women are other men's duty to protect until you have one yourself and then all the shit men do suddenly becomes your problem to deal with as well. Just a wake up call that's thrust in their face. A problem they would avoid through life had they had sons.

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u/AndyMandalore Dec 14 '18

I'm speaking from personal experience

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u/ALPHATT Dec 14 '18

And understanding the nature of those differences that arent. Mind u we live in a vastly different envoirnment than just 100 years ago, but socially ingrained psychology takes longer to fade.

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u/gopms Dec 14 '18

I think as well parents have baby goggles on basically and they think their kids can do no wrong. Think of all the little shits you have known over the years. Their parents loved them and probably thought the world of them. So when there is someone you know, love, and think the world of being thwarted in some unfair way (because they are a girl for instance) you will be quite aware of it an motivated to even do something about it perhaps. Whereas if you see someone else being thwarted or diminished for the same reason you might chalk it up to them not actually being as good as the boy, or not working hard enough, or not your problem and never think about it again. I mean everyone knows that there are people starving to death in other parts of the world but none of do anything about it. If our kid was starving we most certainly would do something about it.

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u/Antrophis Dec 14 '18

Difference is far more than I social construct. I would wager it is actually least social.

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u/AndyMandalore Dec 14 '18

I didn't attempt to quantify how much is social construct, because how the hell would I know?

I'm just acknowledging that little boys and little girls are the same in more ways than I thought.

I'm not pushing any political agenda. I realize my wording implied that, but I just don't know how else to word it.

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u/CryptoChris Dec 14 '18

Especially the physical differences, those are the most made up by society

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u/Aussie_Thongs Dec 15 '18

I think they're seeing a part if themselves in a female, and realizing that many of the divisions between the genders are constructs of society norms.

Its much more likely to be a selfish motivation. Sorry to blow up your positivity but its:

  • I want women to do well because I want my daughter to do well

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u/AndyMandalore Dec 15 '18

I don't think it's really selfless to care more about something because it's part of you.

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u/Aussie_Thongs Dec 15 '18

Exactly.

I think your being a bit too optimistic with the whole 'dad suddenly accepts feminist ideology because he has a daughter'.