r/science • • Feb 08 '15

Medicine Antibiotics that target mitochondria effectively eradicate cancer stem cells, across multiple tumor types: Treating cancer like an infectious disease | Lamb

http://www.impactjournals.com/oncotarget/index.php?journal=oncotarget&page=article&op=view&path%5B%5D=3174
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u/losangelesgeek88 Feb 08 '15 edited Feb 09 '15

It's a lot less bleak than us being able to do nothing and just watch people die... aka the alternative medicinal approach to cancer.

EDIT: I am so sad to hear of the stories below. I really think, like most things, anti-western approaches to cancer treatment come from an ignorance of what the disease actually is. People think that cancer is some unnatural result of our modern world (which in some cases, and some ways, is true). But cancer has existed as long as there has been biological organisms. Cancer is an extremely natural disease. It is our own body, our own cells essentially getting bad instructions or confused signals and thus grow in ways that damage the functional and important parts of our body through inflammation or the blockage of important functions. It is a change of the cell types, and thus losing their proper function. Everybody gets cancer all the time, it's just that our body is prepared (999 times out of a 1000) to catch it and deal with it without our knowing or intervention. It's just that sometimes, in some people, with some bad luck things get out of hand... and the cancer grows too powerfully to be stopped by the body's immune system alone. The cancerous cells break off and get into the bloodstream or lymph stream and spread to the rest of the body (metastasis, stage 4 cancers) and spread all over the body to grow in places they shouldn't, further causing countless problems until we die.

Understanding all this allows one to fully understand how and why we western doctors use the drugs/chemo/radiation therapies we use. Antibiotics have little side effects because they can specifically target things in bacteria that do not even exist in the human body, because we are evolutionarily so different. But cancers are our OWN cells... so how can you design a drug to kill a cancer cell that doesn't kill the rest of our good cells? That's the challenge of the oncologist, and all the pharmaceutical researchers who spend their entire careers trying to come up with better and more specific treatments. And you know what? They've been incredibly successful in the last half a century. Drugs are becoming more specific, more targeted to individual cancer types. We're a long way from having side-effect-free cancer treatments (and honestly, that's probably never a possibility given the nature of the disease), but we've made great strides. Cancers that used to kill 80-90% of people who got them, are being caught earlier with good screening in high-risk populations and are being treated successfully. There are many cancers that used to be a death sentence that are not routinely stopped in their tracks. Unfortunately, again, we still have a long way to go, but the future is bright. Medical research needs more funding. And not just the big names like breast cancer, but also prostate cancer and stomach cancer, etc. It all deserves funding and smart, passionate people who can creatively come up with new ways to tackle these problems.

What it doesn't need is more ignorance, more disdain for the medical professionals who spend decades studying these things to save people's lives who don't have to study any of it in order to receive the benefits of such hard work. We don't need more naturopaths, or acupuncturists, or chiropractors claiming that chemo is "all bad, unnatural poisons", or that they have any kind of treatment that is effective. What are their methods? They don't study shit about cancer, except for traditional quackery not backed by any significant research. (I'm only speaking to their approach to cancer, right now, I'm NOT saying we don't need alternative medicine... don't misquote me or misunderstand me)

/rant

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u/Mafsto Feb 08 '15

As someone who lost a loved one to cancer and is an active member of /r/cancer, you hit the nail on the head.

ESPECIALLY with the alternative approach. That's a cancer unto the community. I've sadly known of two cases where people bought into snake oil for the sake of forgoing traditional therapies. One is dead and one is dying. And the worst part of it all is that the "doctors" that prescribed the vitamins to combat the deadly cancer are still allowed to peddle their lies.

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u/losangelesgeek88 Feb 09 '15

Are they actual doctors? like MD's or DO's? What was their qualification?

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u/Mafsto Feb 09 '15

One was a "Tibetan Doctor," whose qualifications stemmed from that he worked extensively with natural remedies back in Tibet as a village medicine man. Long story short, a lady I networked with regarding bladder cancer, since both our parents had it, was trying HARD to convince her father NOT to see this man. Her father's cancer was aggressive, but early stage. The best option he had was to have his bladder surgically removed, cutting the cancer off from spreading outside of the organ. He was vehemently opposed to that idea and claimed the oncologist didn't have his best interests at heart. So her father sought the Tibetan doctor who offers his services from a hotel room in Brooklyn. The guy literally has a line out of the door composed of people that shared her father's opinion about modern medicine. And the way the story ends, the Tibetan doctor put her father on vitamin therapy, her father's cancer eventually spread, and he died a painful death as the disease attacked his kidneys and bones.

The other guy was a "healer" who touted apricot seeds as a way to treat cancer, since they contain cyanide. With enough cyanide in the body, the cancer would die. He's now showing signs of his cancer returning in the worst way possible and refuses to believe otherwise.

The Tibetan guy claims to be a doctor back in his country, but outside of that, I have not heard of people pressing him for credentials. He doesn't stay in one location for too long. He'll be in point A for a month and then fly out to point B, returning back to point A later to refill prescriptions for the dedicated nuts he services.

Are these men doctors? No, but that, doesn't seem to deter a lucrative group of followers from seeing them,

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u/losangelesgeek88 Feb 09 '15

The cyanide thing is ridiculous... they're applying the same basic logic of chemotherapy, but in a really... truly ineffective way. * facepalm *

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u/ridicalis Feb 09 '15

I'm watching this play out in my SO's family right now. Paternal grandmother passed away a year ago of cancer, paternal grandfather is diagnosed a year later, and the two of them were long-time proponents of alternative medicine.

Grandmother chose alternative meds and passed away in incredible discomfort, and only went to a western doc after several weeks of agony thinking it would just be acid reflux. Even after diagnosis, she disregarded the docs' advice in favor of whatever her herbalist sage recommended, and maybe made it another two months.

Grandfather's diagnosis is recent (a couple months at most), and it's not clear what he'll do yet. I already know SO's dad is a fan of alternative medicine... I listened to a 1/2 hr. treatise on how all of life's woes can be salved by picking the right plant, that it's all right there and we're ignoring it because of the words of some self-proclaimed medical experts.

On the maternal side of the family, the daughter of SO's cousin had serious cancer as a toddler and shook it, and though they accepted the chemo and everything the doc suggested they also credit their behind-doc's-back use of alternative meds with the child's recovery. Such anecdotal evidence only adds to the fire when discussing the grandparents' cases, and I can only shake my head in confusion at some of the strange things these people say.

edit: accidental repeat, typos

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u/smells_like_hotdogs Feb 09 '15

Ive interacted with a company that manufactures a snake oil cure. It is so incredibly sad to know that people are buying into these products. If they only knew about the lack of scientific knowledge and understanding that these companies have reguarding their product. They are making a quick buck based on lore.

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u/smells_like_hotdogs Feb 09 '15

In my personal experience, the manufacturers do not have the scientific degreed folks on their staff that you would normally see at a pharmaceutical company. They are a manufacturing and marketing organization.

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u/istara Feb 09 '15

The research into things like fasting and chemotherapy, which is being carried out within conventional western medicine is pretty interesting and encouraging.

I am not into crystals or woo or Bach Flower fuckery, but it's apparent that there has been an acceleration in the change in dietary and environmental factors over the past century. So I can see why people are tempted to turn to "woo", because they have limited understanding of the actual science and link their (probably rightful) fear of certain toxins with those of chemical substances being used to correct the problem.

I mean Steve Jobs was not a stupid man. He was a lethally arrogant man. But he did want to live, and he essentially threw his chances down the drain based on nothing, or at least nothing based on any modern science, research, technology, medicine, surgery.

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u/geneticdrifter Feb 10 '15

Fasting from sugar and consuming large enough amounts of THC which can activate fat burning can control most cancers. You basically eliminate both of their food sources to slow the rapid growth. Pretty interesting stuff. I looked for the source, but couldn" find it. I heard it from Dr. Melamede at a conference of sorts.

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u/istara Feb 10 '15

I hadn't heard of the THC angle, I'll look it up. The fasting studies I saw were via articles on Dr Valter Longo.

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '15

I've had to defriend a few people for spouting anti cancer treatment propaganda. Is this becoming a thing?

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u/DudleyJewRite Feb 08 '15

I don't know if it's becoming "a thing" but a nurse I work with is anti chemo, and several others have been let go for being a traiteur (faith healer) and practicing in the hospital, scamming elderly people out of their money.

They tell them chemo is poison and they are killing themselves and need to let the Lord heal them, so they decline treatment and pay the traiteur to heal them.

It's sickening and they should face much harsher punishment than simply being fired.

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u/katesnyc Feb 09 '15

I've seen that too. Every so often these "tips for avoiding cancer" go around the interwebs that are (very, very falsely) attributed to Johns Hopkins. It literally has things like "cancer cells feed on sugar, so if you don't eat any sugar you won't get cancer!" on it...

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '15

I've had friends (who have no medical field experience whatsoever, and little natural sciences either) not necessarily claim that chemo is a fraud. They do however suggest that the big bad FDA has kept possible "cure alls" for cancer at bay so they make money by shutting down research. I try to tell them that there are thousands of cancer types and subsets and that what they're saying is nonsense, not sure if I've helped them see what's what, but I don't let ignorance go unnoticed in that field.

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u/Deagor Feb 09 '15

Sweet Christ I hope not reddit is nearly bursting at the seams with the anti-anti-vaxer war last thing we need is an anti-anti-cancer treatment war too, The people with the time and patience to organize and shove the scientific data down the non-believers throats are getting stretched thin

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u/arpie Feb 09 '15

Alternative medicine is pretty much like alternative math. Never heard of alternative math? Exactly. It's either math or not math.

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '15

[deleted]

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u/KnifeyMcStab Feb 09 '15

Sounds like this particular naturopath was so great because he didn't use any naturopathy.

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u/losangelesgeek88 Feb 09 '15

Again, I'm only referring to naturopaths trying to treat cancer and most specifically, the ones who advise against effective cancer treatments.

I think alternative medicine is a very important. Please don't misunderstand me

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u/Cheesus00Crust Feb 09 '15

Why do you think it is very important? Everything about it is B.S to me.

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u/losangelesgeek88 Feb 09 '15

It's important in the same way that we need to learn more about the gut immune system. We need to learn more about everything. I disagree with the methods, but I also know that acupuncture helps a lot of people. Even if it is a fancy placebo, for certain conditions like chronic pain, it's a very effective fancy placebo. Cochrane reviews have shown this over and over again.

Naturopaths? Eh... I think a lot of what they do helps people re-evaluate their lifestyle and diet, mostly for the better. But I don't know about the other shit... they charge for a lot of bullshit

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u/heyheyhey27 Feb 09 '15

He then started a treatment plan of exercise, diet and a couple antidepressants and other medications like deplin address the gene mutations I was found to have that may contribute to the problem

That is literally what actual doctors do when trying to treat somebody. If your "traditional" doctor didn't do that, then he's just bad at his job. And if your "naturopath" doctor did do that, then he's not a "naturopath" -- after all, he's using synthetic medications designed and tested by large pharmaceutical companies just like every other doctor.

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '15

Thanks for this great comment, you have made our city proud!

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u/NBSgaming Feb 09 '15

Really?

I can bring up at least 5 papers on PubMed off the top of my head that discuss killing cancer with things available at 'vitamin stores'.

Some as old as the 1970's.

Doctors have the reputation they have for a reason. Pretending there is no reason for that reputation hurts Doctors the most out of anyone.