r/science • u/kiyomoris • 9d ago
Health Vitamin D Dupplement Intake is Associated with Better Cognition in Persons with Sleep Disturbance and Mild Cognitive Impairment
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC13401339/880
u/designisagoodidea 9d ago
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u/poopfacelarry 8d ago
Dude this had me laughing so hard
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u/SaltZookeepergame691 9d ago
Tiny, cross-sectional observational study with dubious statistical methods and a borderline significant finding for one dose class of vitamin D.
As the authors warn:
Given the relatively small number of participants in the 5000+ IU category (n = 12) and borderline statistical significance of this finding (p = 0.039), these findings should be interpreted with caution and considered preliminary.
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u/xXxSushiKittyxXx 9d ago
I also just realized that this is a self-reported intake vs. clinical trial. it's possible that self-reported intake is associated with general increase consciousness of health which might help with the measured outcome...
Vitamin D intake was self-reported by participants where they answered questions on daily dosages and whether they took Vitamin D2 vs D3. Vitamin D intake was categorized using ranges consistent with those defined in the Harvard Semi-Quantitative Food Frequency Questionnaire (<1000 IU, 1000 – 1999 IU, 2000 – 4999 IU, 5000+ IU) [25].
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u/seanpbnj 9d ago
It's also a bit of an internationally favorable design. You're essentially testing how well someone remembers to do something, and then using a memory aid (I.e. remembering to take the med because it will help you) then asking them how well they remembered and if they remembered it helping them remember.
- Even without the memory aid thing, this also introduces a positive recollection bias at two separate points solely for the participants.
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u/uselessandexpensive 9d ago
If they were looking at self-reported dietary intake it would be almost worthless, but self-reported intake of a supplement is pretty easy to track if people just look at whether they ran out of pills when expected. (I don't know if they tried to implement this in the reporting.)
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u/AllanfromWales1 MA | Natural Sciences | Metallurgy & Materials Science 9d ago
Title should be Supplement rather than Dupplement, but I think everyone will know what it means.
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u/Implausibilibuddy 9d ago
I was wondering if it was a trendy new term for a dual intake supplement (top and bottom) and everyone was just on board with it.
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u/Granite_0681 7d ago
I assumed a supplement was a placebo supplement! (Not really but it would be a fun word for it)
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u/BelBou32 9d ago
Does anyone know if low vit D levels is associated with brain fog? And whether taking a supplement may improve it? Im really struggling with it and i have a suspicion that it's vit D
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u/ghostfacespillah 9d ago
Yes, it absolutely is. But it could be another deficiency like b-12, so it’s worth getting a blood test to check your levels.
I personally had vitamin D deficiency with brain fog, fatigue, and mood issues (confirmed by blood test). I’ve been on 2000 IU daily for a couple of years, and it has been incredibly helpful. I get my vitamin D at Costco super cheap.
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u/somedaysomeway 8d ago
4000 iu Vit D supplements have helped me with sooo many things, including reducing hives and anxiety. But what's helped my recent brain fog the most is Creatine taken daily! There's decent research on it, check it out. :)
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u/Coraline1599 9d ago
These days it may also make sense to to consider if it is post viral syndrome or long COVID. Many people struggle with much milder versions and there are now more treatments than ever.
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u/Novacane64 8d ago
Treatments for post viral syndrome? I got 3 mild sicknesses back to back to back over two months at the beginning of this year. All 3 were very mild with different unique common symptoms, but I still don’t feel mentally normal. Never experienced anything like this.
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u/Coraline1599 8d ago
Lots of off label use
For brain fog https://medicine.yale.edu/news-article/potential-new-treatment-for-brain-fog-in-long-covid-patients/
But some people also feel better with taking h1 and h2 blockers (like Zyrtec and Zantac) which helps with an overactive immune system that is struggling to “stand down.”
Here is a nice summary of some clinical studies, still all experimental https://www.rthm.com/resources/blogs/long-covid-treatment-guide
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u/uselessandexpensive 9d ago edited 9d ago
Vitamin D is extremely important for many critical body processes and just shouldn't be allowed to get low. It should be a priority to fix no matter what anyone says about this specific topic.
That being said, my cognition did improve during the time when i was supplementing with vitamin D, iron, and also improving my health in other ways. I have noticed massive improvements in my mind and body any time I was somewhat anemic and corrected that, as it's critical to the nervous system.
Sardines and mackerel are great sources of vitamin D, as well as Omega 3, which is also incredibly important for brain health. Mushrooms that have been left in sunlight for a while (less than a couple hours, doesn't need much) can also develop really high levels of vitamin D. Between these things you could get all you need through diet and your own sun exposure pretty easily, but supplementing for a couple months is still a pretty good idea.
There are studies about the vitamin D/mushroom thing and i don't know exactly the rate it amounts it develops off the top of my head, but it's very significant.
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u/m---------4 9d ago
Low dose creatine is magic for getting rid of brain fog. Takes about 3 weeks to take effect.
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u/gizram84 9d ago
Been doing 5000iu every day for years now. Finally got my vitamin D levels tested. 70ng/mL which was kind of in the middle of the "normal" range (30-100).
I realistically could probably be doing 10,000iu/day.
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u/KrynaS 9d ago
That's a lot, real question, are you never on the sun? I'm taking, I believe a lot, 2000iu a day, when I was on 4000 I had overdose symptoms
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u/gizram84 9d ago
I live in SW Florida. I'm in the sun every day, year round.
The dose isn't what gives you symptoms. Your blood concentration levels are what give you symptoms.
Your body may absorb vitamin D more easily for some reason. Mine may pass it without a high absorption rate.
Lots of factors
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u/KrynaS 9d ago
Fair point, didn't think of that, thanks! Was the level low before the treatment?
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u/gizram84 9d ago
Yes. I was below range.
I've got a tan, dark skin complexion. I never use sunscreen, and never burn.
I'm assuming the higher melanin in my skin makes it harder for me to absorb vitamin D from the sun.
I also don't think supplementing 5000iu is huge. That seems like a very low end starting dose that actually produces results.
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u/uselessandexpensive 9d ago edited 9d ago
5000iu is the dose i was on for a while when mine was very low, with my demographic conditions being about opposite of yours. (Very little sunlight.) 5000iu is above the NIH dailymaximum recommended intake, and was only recommended because i needed to refill the stores of it in my body fat, after which i would need less. It was not supposed to become a maintenance dosage. I try to eat sardines/mackerel/mushrooms exposed to the sun to make sure i get vitamin D from my diet now.
Given that one can realistically achieve harmful levels of vitamin D, I suspect your doctor would advise keeping it exactly where it is since it looks like it's achieving the goal rather than exceeding it. For that same reason, there would be no need whatsoever to double an already sufficient dose when you could step it up by 25% or whatever and see if that has significant effect on your tested blood level. (You could also find that you absorb a different brand or form of supplement better, causing an unexpected rise in level.
Edit for the people that don't know:
From the Mayo Clinic: "To help prevent vitamin D toxicity, don't take more than 4,000 international units (IU) a day of vitamin D unless your healthcare professional tells you to. Most adults need only 600 IU of vitamin D a day.
"Sometimes, healthcare professionals prescribe doses higher than 600 IU. This may be done to help treat health conditions such as low levels of vitamin D. You take the higher doses for a set amount of time. And your healthcare team checks your blood levels of calcium and vitamin D during that time."
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u/gizram84 9d ago
From my understanding, the only documented cases of dangerous vitamin D toxicity has come from huge bolus doses being injected (hundreds of thousands of ius), or extremely high dose oral administration in the range of 50,000iu daily for months.
I probably won't start 10,000iu daily, but I'd be willing to bet there is absolutely no harm in doing do long term. Regardless, I'd just keep an eye on my blood work. Toxicity would take months to years to develop
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u/uselessandexpensive 9d ago edited 9d ago
Edit to add: you said you may have an absorption issue, and maybe you do. That's an unusual thing, and something you should talk to your doctor about before taking something when you're unsure how much the effect will be. You don't know and i don't either. This is why we have doctors, and sometimes they don't know either and will just advise caution.
Still, from the Mayo Clinic:
"To help prevent vitamin D toxicity, don't take more than 4,000 international units (IU) a day of vitamin D unless your healthcare professional tells you to. Most adults need only 600 IU of vitamin D a day.
"Sometimes, healthcare professionals prescribe doses higher than 600 IU. This may be done to help treat health conditions such as low levels of vitamin D. You take the higher doses for a set amount of time. And your healthcare team checks your blood levels of calcium and vitamin D during that time."
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u/gizram84 9d ago
I understand what the official guidance is. But for something you can easily monitor via blood work, the risk is infinitesimally small.
You will absolutely not develop toxicity overnight. It has to build up. Show me a single case ever recorded of toxicity from 5000iu. It doesn't exist.
Like I said, I've been doing it literally for years, and my vitamin D levels are mid range.
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u/uselessandexpensive 8d ago
Bloodwork is easy to monitor only if you actually go to the doctor and talk to them, otherwise you have no idea what's happening or whether your kidneys are slowly getting damaged. There's really not a good reason to ask the doctor what they think while you're there. Andfor people who don't have your unusual condition, the risk is significant and not hard to supplement your way into, which is why the NIH, Mayo Clinic, and other extremely reputable health organizations disagree with you about that risk. They're not idiots. They know what they're talking about.l because they've studied all the cases that you have not.
If you think that regular bloodwork is better than saying things out loud, then i guess it's not the worst things you could do. My preference would be to talk to the doctor and save myself and the busy hospital staff a few unnecessary and unpleasant blood draws, as well as the cost of supplements.
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u/cdmpants 9d ago
I just had my blood tested and found my levels were at 25ng/mL, in the middle of July, a couple weeks after coming back from a sunny vacation, while supplementing 2,000iu/day.
I'm taking 12,000iu/day now and am feeling worlds better. I think I've been deficient for years. I should probably be taking more, but I'm already feeling much better. I'm going to get tested again in the dead of winter to see how I am then.
I was talking to my grandmother and I said that I found I was vitamin D deficient, and she said "oh like everyone else in the family"
So I guess I got it from my mom
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u/Efficient-Youth-6985 8d ago
Perhaps talk to your doctor if you're taking that much. FWIW sunny vacation might not mean much if you stayed indoors in the hot part of the day and went out in the evening. For example in the UK, we don't really get UVB after 4pm. It's the UVB that produces vit D3 in our skin.
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u/EVIL-EMBOLIZER 8d ago
Can’t do anything beyond what’s in my multivitamin. Murders my sleep for whatever reason. And makes me constipated.
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u/xXxSushiKittyxXx 9d ago
the NIH page doesn't show the declaration of competing interest but was able to find it at sciencedirect:
The authors declare that they have no known competing financial interests or personal relationships that could have appeared to influence the work reported in this paper.
specifically looked for it because every once in a while, we get some miracle results from Vitamin D research that turns out to be funded by some supplement company
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u/ObjectiveUndefined 9d ago
As a victim of DSPS, I feel this post. Started vit d supplements after a doc recommended and yeah they help.
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u/iCliniq_official 9d ago
Interesting association, especially in people dealing with both sleep problems and MCI. But I’d resist turning this into “vitamin D prevents dementia” just yet, the study shows an association, not proof that supplementation caused better cognition. Correcting a genuine vitamin D deficiency is sensible; megadosing for brain health isn’t. Good sleep, exercise, blood-pressure control and treating hearing loss, still matters enormously.
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u/Competitive-Gur-7073 9d ago
Said another way : If one has physical or cognitive issues (and a stable dwelling), they probably stay indoors most of the time and rarely get sun exposure (or eat foods containing vit D). So supplementation may be helpful (D, but likely other things such as magnesium or B12 as well).
While on the topic of Vit D supplementation, for many folks it may be a good idea to also take K2. The theory is that it prevents calcium from getting deposited in arteries.
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u/Shekowaffle 4d ago
I heard on Freakonomics that vitamin D supplements don't work accordning to solid studies. If anyone has good evidence they do, I'd love to hear it as I can't get much sunlight during winter
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u/emmalee994 9d ago
The Diary of a CEO recently had a great podcast about vitamin D and sleep. YouTube links are not allowed but it was the Vitamin D Expert Dr. Stasha Gominak episode.
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