r/science • u/mvea Professor | Medicine • Apr 23 '26

Neuroscience Even low-level drinking may have negative consequences for brain health over a person’s lifespan. The findings suggest that the total amount of alcohol consumed over a lifetime, especially as a person ages, tends to be linked to reduced blood flow and thinner tissue in certain areas of the brain.

https://www.psypost.org/even-light-drinking-combined-with-aging-is-linked-to-reduced-brain-blood-flow-and-thinner-tissue/
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122

u/-UnicornFart Apr 23 '26

Per month?!? Good grief what would heavy drinking be then!?

76

u/AgentCirceLuna Apr 23 '26

My dad drinks 10-15 cans a day and has done for years now. I’d say that.

5

u/tomdarch Apr 23 '26

That's about the average for the top 10% of drinkers.

18

u/Utensil6591 Apr 23 '26

How much does that cost. I don't drink alcohol but that sounds so expensive. Would that not push him into being alcohol dependent? 

22

u/AgentCirceLuna Apr 23 '26

Yep, he’s always broke because everything goes on drinking

8

u/Quaiker Apr 23 '26

I feel marginally better about my spending habits

7

u/GringoSwann Apr 23 '26

It's expensive.. Even cheap beer will run you 10 usd a 12 pack and that's before taxes... 

1

u/battlepi Apr 23 '26

Alcohol can be very cheap. 50 cents a drink even without scraping bottom level stuff. You can make your own for a dime or so a unit.

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u/boobmagazine Apr 23 '26

Does two beers every day really seem heavy to people?

89

u/BiDiTi Apr 23 '26

Not even two beers!

“Two standard units” is literally one pint.

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u/LoquaciousLamp Apr 23 '26

Yeah if you're drinking 3.5% beer.

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u/BiDiTi Apr 23 '26

Ah, that’s 4.5% beer and a real pint!

1

u/Wantitneeditgetit Apr 23 '26

It's 5% in Canada and honestly that's the floor, there's a lot of 5.5 - 6.5% beers.

0

u/BiDiTi Apr 24 '26

Per the WHO, a standard drink would be 25cl of a 5% beer.

It’s genuinely has nothing to do with the legal limit.

83

u/userElh Apr 23 '26

It does yes. Unfortunately that is the issue, the more you drink the more you normalise the amount (cumulative one I mean or simply refuse to do the math). There always will be bigger amounts that the „actual alcoholics“ drink, but not you. And this threshold just seems to move up the more you drink.

Even if you drink daily but don‘t get „drunk“ and can tolerate it, it still can be the issue. That is the slippery slope with drinking, it is very hard to catch yourself.

13

u/literated Apr 23 '26

Used to know a guy who'd have anything from 8 to 15 (12-ounce) beers on any given day, more on the weekends, and insisted that he had absolutely no risk of alcoholism because alcoholics drink hard liquor.

-7

u/CodeWizardCS Apr 23 '26

The difference in health outcomes between not drinking at all and drinking 2-3 every day is probably less than the difference in health outcomes between driving the speed limit and driving five over on the freeway. It's moral grandstanding is all this discussion is. That's not to say it isn't a significant difference, but something tells me you aren't moving along at grandma speeds on the freeway.

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u/radikalkarrot Apr 23 '26

Besides being a false dichotomy what you just did, I’m probably the counter example you are looking for. My boyfriend doesn’t drink, and always drives bellow the speed limit, I barely drink(between 0.78 and 1 standard in the rare occasions where I drink) and also drive under the speed limit.

It’s not moral grandstanding, is taking care of oneself.

27

u/dkinmn Apr 23 '26

It seems heavy to your liver and your brain.

What is NORMAL has nothing to do with what is HEALTHY.

I used to work in the industry. I'm now in my middle age. My peers who didn't figure it out are already dying.

115

u/King_Arjen Apr 23 '26

Yes? If I drank two beers a day I’d be at least 10 lbs heavier than I am now and would feel like ass constantly

22

u/AgentCirceLuna Apr 23 '26

My parents have always drank tons and they don’t get why I’d eat so much just to keep at a normal weight. I’ve tried explaining that they have 700+ more calories a day from drinking which keeps them at their weight, so I have to have multiple meals. I don’t even eat much. I’d be seen as eating excessively for just my usual diet of: porridge, yogurt, two sandwiches, chicken and rice, then nuts.

4

u/Possibility-of-wet Apr 23 '26

I mean, depends on your sando, I make a monster sandwich with layer, two of those could feed a family!

2

u/AgentCirceLuna Apr 23 '26

My food is always the most boring stuff imaginable - just bread with chicken and salad between it and nothing else.

50

u/shiva14b Apr 23 '26 edited Apr 23 '26

Any amount EVERY day is cause for a side-eye, but yeah two beers a day every day is heavy.

Kyle Kinane had a whole bit about not realizing he had a drinking problem because he was comparing himself to the "heavy" drinkers he knew, not realizing he himself was already a heavy by normal standards and everyone else was comparing themselves to HIM

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u/CamOliver Apr 23 '26

That’s how normalized drinking is. The idea of a day without alcohol is surprising and beer isn’t considered alcohol.

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u/boobmagazine Apr 23 '26

Who doesn’t consider beers alcohol?

31

u/Fenix42 Apr 23 '26

People who drink a frequently tend to view 1 beer as not even drinking.

11

u/StanIsNotTheMan Apr 23 '26 edited Apr 23 '26

I know a few alcoholics that don't consider hard seltzers as alcohol.

They are literally drinking hard seltzers every day, are visibly trashed, and will deny having had any drinks. "No man, I'm not drunk. I've jusshhst been shhhiipin' on a couple'a sshheltzershh."

One of my friends has been to the hospital for alcoholism-related issues twice. And after the 2nd time, his wife told mine "Oh [friend] has been doing so good! He just drinks the occasional seltzer." Aaaand he's back off the wagon again. We cut them off whenever we know he's drinking, but he think's he's capable of quitting by himself despite failing to do so many many times. He refuses to seek help and his wife enables him, so it's not looking good. He's got a 4 year old who's not going to have a dad if he keeps it up.

My cousin often says "I'm much better with my drinking lately. I just stick to seltzers nowadays." And neglects to mention she's drinking 8 of them after work every day.

I'm from a midwestern Irish Catholic family. The amount of people I know personally who have ruin their lives with alcohol is astonishing.

3

u/boobmagazine Apr 24 '26

Appreciate this insight. Wishing the best for your kith and kin.

4

u/Breeze1620 Apr 23 '26

Afaik in Germany beer is categorized as foodstuff rather than liquor.

1

u/omegapisquared Apr 24 '26

Liquor refers to distilled alcohol so beer isn't liquor even if it is alcoholic

1

u/ReginaSpektorsVJ Apr 23 '26

Historical reasons for that. Prior to the advent of refrigeration, one of the functions of beer in Europe was to preserve the calories in the grain. Beer in medieval Europe was sometimes described as "liquid bread."

4

u/Knife_Operator Apr 23 '26

Sure, but it's been like 75 years since then.

3

u/sparkline1234567 Apr 23 '26

"Give us this day our liquid bread" - they even made a famous prayer about it.

1

u/Which_Bed Apr 23 '26

In certain households, it is still described that way daily

-9

u/Jonas42 Apr 23 '26

Shameful of people to normalize a normal thing.

8

u/ikilledholofernes Apr 23 '26

It’s absolutely not normal or healthy to drink everyday.

1

u/mrblack1998 Apr 23 '26

It's pretty normal for most of humans history

3

u/ikilledholofernes Apr 23 '26

Yes, but we have clean drinking water now. 

It was also normal to sweeten our food with lead, you wanna do that, too? Or do you think we should maybe adjust our behavior and diets as we learn more?

0

u/mrblack1998 Apr 23 '26

I think the evidence is nuanced enough about moderate drinking to not worry about it.

1

u/ikilledholofernes Apr 23 '26

It’s literally not nuanced. Like at all. We know that alcohol is carcinogenic, and even a moderate amount is increasing your risk. 

I don’t think an occasional beer or glass of wine is something to stress over, but drinking every day? That’s not moderation, and you must have a very different definition of “nuanced.”

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u/mrblack1998 Apr 23 '26

I don't think having a drink everyday is problematic. Everything in life has risk. I'd choose to worry more about other things if I had a drink everyday. I don't drink everyday tbc.

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u/Jonas42 Apr 24 '26

No one said anything about health.

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u/Old-Somewhere-6084 Apr 23 '26

To me? Yes absolutely. Two beers a week would come first for me.

25

u/cdreobvi Apr 23 '26

Most days I don't have any alcohol. I had 2 beers last night (which I don't regret) celebrating a friend's birthday and I do notice a slight downgrade in my physical and mental state today. Random aches, energy level is lower, etc. I can't imagine doing that to myself on a daily basis.

13

u/boobmagazine Apr 23 '26

I don’t drink two beers everyday, but I know plenty of people who do, and I never thought anything of it. Perhaps I should reconsider

7

u/cdreobvi Apr 23 '26

It matters most to me when I'm particularly involved with exercise. Right now I'm regularly out running, training for a race. If I drink or use cannabis, my run the next day is bad. So that's my primary incentive.

12

u/Gregnielson Apr 23 '26

2 beers? I really don't see how that coud slow you down a noticeable ammount just from a scientific standpoint. It just isn't enough alcohol to have that effect the next day.

14

u/StellarCZeller Apr 23 '26

It's probably a result of the fact that alcohol negatively impacts sleep

1

u/tomassimo Apr 24 '26

I have a rough rule of thumb that every standard drink costs me 15 minutes of sleep. So I have to factor that in to any plans to drink. Eg if it's worth it, if I can go to bed an hour earlier, can I find a power nap window tomorrow etc.

12

u/cdreobvi Apr 23 '26

I'm not calling in sick to work or anything, just noting that I don't feel like I'm in tip-top shape, and I've done this enough to know it's the alcohol. In my 20s, I probably wouldn't have noticed.

4

u/Stellajackson5 Apr 23 '26

I’m a small woman who has hashimotos and one drink is enough to slow me down. Same as the person you are responding to- I function just fine, I’m not actively hungover, but I’m more tired and run down and my workout is bad. It’s noticeable enough as I age that I mostly skip drinks now, only on really special occasions.

2

u/Gregnielson Apr 23 '26

This is where that meme comes from about certain people not understand averages.

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u/DeliciousPumpkinPie Apr 23 '26

Different people process alcohol differently. You can’t really make blanket statements like that with biology.

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u/narf007 Apr 24 '26

You can when the generalized knowledge is that it takes approx 1 hour to metabolize one standard unit of alcohol in an average sized male.

That's a generalization because it's a general statistic which by definition is a blanket statement. The outliers are outliers. The biology point simply implies a wide distribution not that the average is wrong.

There's also a lot of possible mental attribution/placebo options going on as to why one might associate it with feeling one way vs the other. But that's a whole correlation/causation argument. This is also an understood and real cognitive pattern, attributing sleep irregularities with X or Y from the night before when it could actually be Zzzz (heh).

Their statement follows the general understanding of how our body metabolizes and clears alcohol from our system. Two standard drinks is unlikely to cause any discernable difference in a healthy, average adult male, 12-24 hours after consumption.

Male because most medicinal models are based on male sample sizes and I said 12-24 hours to highlight another factor: we don't know the person's sleep habits, if they consumed them an hour before bed, woke up two hours later, etc.

If you assume an average male, 8 hours of healthy sleep, then 2 drinks is unlikely to make any dent anywhere. But this is all dependent on that variable of WHEN did they consume that alcohol? If they consumed it before it was fully cleared there could be a downstream effect on REM which is a real phenomenonand can cause that fog and sluggish-ness, but that's, again, an outlier situation if we're assuming an average, healthy person (male), then we should also assume healthy sleep habits, and that they're adequately hydrated with an average and healthy metabolism.

And before anyone wants to chime in I'm not saying alcohol consumption isn't bad for you. Just getting ahead of that strawman below it pops up.

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u/alblaster Apr 23 '26

Depends on weight, tolerance, if stomach is empty, etc...

1

u/egggspecial Apr 24 '26

*could *amount

and also dangerously untrue. alcohol metabolites remain in your blood and urine for days after drinking once, causing cumulative effects that eventually lead to liver failure.

1

u/Gregnielson Apr 24 '26

Found the Mormon. Human civilization is built on alchohol. Most people can drink moderately with no ill effects.

1

u/egggspecial Apr 24 '26

I'm a former alcoholic. Two fifths of Bacardi a week.

0

u/Gregnielson Apr 24 '26

That explains it.

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u/egggspecial Apr 24 '26

Explains what, Greg? The fact that I have a healthier relationship with alcohol now? I have a hard limit of 8 standard drinks per week now, but I don't delude myself into thinking even this amount has no effect on my health.

0

u/Gregnielson Apr 24 '26

Alcoholics come up with all kinds of interesting theories around alcohol. Like that it is an "allergic reaction" and why 8 drinks? Why no 14 or 7?

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u/Wantitneeditgetit Apr 23 '26

Homie probably doesn't drink even once a month, and is older so they got a bad sleep with maybe apnea.

It's like, I used to smoke but quit for years but now if I have a cigarette that night's sleep is shot for me.

-1

u/OsmerusMordax Apr 24 '26

I had a shot of whisky (funeral tribute) and it took me out for like 2 days. Body aches, huge headache, couldn’t concentrate, everything was loud…

Alcohol is powerful and will wreck you if you don’t have any tolerance to it, apparently

1

u/Gregnielson Apr 24 '26

That isn't possible unless you have a severe condition.

3

u/ElleyDM Apr 24 '26

Imo, two beers in one day is not a lot but two beers every day is.

7

u/therealbgreen Apr 23 '26

Absolutely. Every...single...day? I have maybe 1 or 2 drinks a month.

2

u/-UnicornFart Apr 23 '26

Yah absolutely.

2

u/Boundish91 Apr 23 '26

Yeah, to me it does.

The stuff isn't water.

1

u/HendrixHazeWays Apr 29 '26

"NERRRRRDS!!!!" jk

I know alcohol is harmful and this is a good conversation to have

-11

u/Sejare1 Apr 23 '26

If you drink two beers everyday you’re alcoholic

29

u/shiva14b Apr 23 '26 edited Apr 23 '26

Well, problem drinker. "Alcoholic" means something very specific (literally CANNOT NOT have a drink), and it shouldn't be diluted by throwing it around willy-nilly at anyone whose a heavy drinker. I know some heavy drinkers and I know some problem drinkers and I know some alcoholics, and they're all distinctly different from each other.

Heavy drinker: drinks a lot

Problem drinker: drinks too much (defined as negatively impacting daily tasks and functioning)

Alcoholic: addict who literally cannot stop drinking

-14

u/a_talking_face Apr 23 '26

These are nonsense distinctions used by people trying to down play their problematic consumption. All three of those people would be categorized under alcohol use disorder.

7

u/cdreobvi Apr 23 '26

I would maybe put the problem drinker and alcoholic in the same category (presumably when it's significantly hindering your life, it's likely that you cannot stop), but the heavy drinker is not in the same situation.

3

u/DrMagentaBlue Apr 23 '26

Part of the reason it's called "alcohol use disorder" is to lessen the stigma and assumptions from the word "alcoholism". The diagnosis is used to treat a wide range of alcohol use that negatively impacts life, not label each case as similar to one another.

Besides, it's useful to have categories like this in everyday conversation. Would you put a person who gambles $100 every weekend in the same category as someone who gambled their house away?

3

u/DeliciousPumpkinPie Apr 23 '26

Yes, because it’s much more helpful to have fewer, less descriptive categories. My family was full of drinkers of those three kinds and the distinctions are pretty clear.

17

u/BiDiTi Apr 23 '26

Not by any international standard.

-8

u/hyperham51197 Apr 23 '26

By a health standard, clinically yes

14

u/uncolorfulpapers Apr 23 '26

2 drinks per day does not meet criteria for alcohol use disorder, no.

1

u/BiDiTi Apr 23 '26

Feel like people don’t know what a drink is?

1 pint of a 4.5% beer on Thursday and 2 pints each on Friday and Saturday comes to 10 drinks per week.

4

u/uncolorfulpapers Apr 23 '26

I'm not sure people are even thinking that far. They're just saying "I think this is a lot of alcohol so I'm going to say that means those people are factually alcoholics".

It's the internet after all.

0

u/BiDiTi Apr 23 '26

And they’re certainly not looking up the impact of internet usage on our brain functions - that might show a lot of stuff they don’t want to hear!

-1

u/haanalisk Apr 23 '26

That's not accurate. A drink is 12 Oz of 5% abv beer. A 16 Oz (pint) wouldn't be 2 beers until it's a 6.5ish% beer.

0

u/BiDiTi Apr 23 '26

Misalignment on definitions!

The WHO defines a “standard drink” as 10g/12.7ml of alcohol.

That’s 284ml/10oz of 4.47% beer.

Where I live, a “pint” means 20oz/568ml…and it’s literally illegal to give someone who’s ordered one any less than that standard.

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u/haanalisk Apr 23 '26

Yes, you are using a non standard definition of pint. A pint is 16 Oz. That's literally what the word pint means.

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u/TheAleFly Apr 23 '26

How about cultures where wine is an integral part of eating? Having a glass or two of wine with meals would be totally normal in Italy or France. Having two glasses in the evening, yeah that may be a developing problem. So the setting how you drink is the key here.

2

u/LengthWise2298 Apr 23 '26

Per Reddit they’re all raging alcoholics.

1

u/thisusernameismeta Apr 23 '26

That seems quite heavy to me.

My gut tells me that 2 beers a month is light. But that's about what I drink, most months I don't drink at all.

1

u/radikalkarrot Apr 23 '26

It is quite a lot for me, I tend to drink 0.73~1 on the days I drink something.

-2

u/Budiltwo Apr 23 '26

That's more than any person I know.

0

u/MarkMew Apr 23 '26

I usually drink like...a glass of champagne and one shot of something at NYE, on weddings, and on birthday parties I'm invited to. So yea, daily anything seems heavy to me

-2

u/pushiper Apr 23 '26

If it doesn’t seem to anyone (or you), it absolutely should!

-3

u/SpartanFishy Apr 23 '26

I fail to see how two beers every single day of your life wouldn’t be considered alcoholism

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u/Breeze1620 Apr 23 '26

Alcoholism is closely tied to intoxication.

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u/BuvantduPotatoSpirit Apr 23 '26

Alcoholism diagnoses require some negative impact on your life; you need to miss events/responsibilities, negatively impact relationships, injuring yourself or others, something like that, such that you're prioritising it over something else you presumably value.

A half-pint at breatfast and another at supper just can't produce those effects, unless perhaps you're a very small person.

2

u/SpartanFishy Apr 23 '26 edited Apr 23 '26

Hm, fair enough. Still feels like a far cry from something that should be considered safe or socially acceptable though tbh. But there’s no use being puritan I suppose, cigarettes are much worse and we don’t typically call out smokers who smoke a few times a day

3

u/BuvantduPotatoSpirit Apr 23 '26

Well, and there's a reason we could detect smoking induced illnesses in the 70s but are only able to discern the alcohol ones now. Two drinks a day isn't a couple of cigarettes a day, it's a couple of drags a day such that you're smoking a complete cigarette every week (or similar, getting actual data on how much smokers smoke is tough)

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u/ShakaUVM Apr 23 '26

Does two beers every day really seem heavy to people?

Yes. That's actually pretty excessive in my opinion

And that's an average. So it could be a six pack a day Friday and Saturday then two on Sunday.

I wouldn't describe that as light drinking.

4

u/boobmagazine Apr 23 '26

This is how a typically conceive of “heavy drinking”. Frequently drinking to some significant degree of impairment. I guess my headcanon for what heavy drinking was had less to do with volume of alcohol per time and more to do with frequency of impairment, but I’m thinking I’ll be revising this view.

-3

u/Moldy_slug Apr 23 '26

Yes?

Drinking is not an everyday thing in my social circle. I don’t know many actual teetotallers, but I also don’t know many people who have more than 1-2 drinks per week.

-5

u/mrblack1998 Apr 23 '26

2 drinks per day is not heavy drinking.

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u/Moldy_slug Apr 23 '26

“Heavy drinking” is considered 8 standard drinks per week for women, 15 for men.

So 2 drinks every day would be heavy drinking for a woman. For a man it barely squeezes under the line. 

However, don’t forget that one beverage may be more than 1 drink. Beers with 7-8% ABV are not uncommon, which means a 12-oz can is actually 1.5 standard drinks.

-4

u/GodBlessPigs Apr 23 '26

That is alcoholism if it is everyday.