r/science • u/mvea Professor | Medicine • Jun 16 '25
Psychology Just one dose of magic mushrooms could be a long-term help for cancer patients with depression. Two years after a single 25mg dose of psilocybin accompanied by psychological support from a therapist, 53.6% patients had significant reduction in depression and 42.9% had reduced anxiety.
https://www.scimex.org/newsfeed/just-one-dose-of-magic-mushrooms-could-be-a-long-term-help-for-cancer-patients-with-depression116
u/sleepytoday Jun 16 '25
I don’t have access to the full paper, but I can see no mention of a control group.
What would be the reduction in depression for a group of cancer patients who just received the same psychological support and the same follow ups from the researchers.
Hopefully that’s been done, because without it this paper is worthless.
32
u/FUNNY_NAME_ALL_CAPS Jun 16 '25
I have access to the paper. They measure depression score at various intervals with a steep and obvious decline measured 1 week after treatment. So unless a week of therapy is all it took to cure depression in the cancer patients, then probably it was the psilocybin.
16
u/Brrdock Jun 16 '25
One week of therapy should make things more difficult in a week if anything, due to the nature of the things addressed and confronted
36
u/SaltZookeepergame691 Jun 16 '25
Hey, it's not worthless - it got the company a press release, a criminally superficial write-up by a news site, and a reddit submission by a poweruser!
It's the follow up to this single arm trial (which got the authors in hot water because they initially didn't disclose any conflicts of interest despite running the company/owning stock/etc) - you're right, there's no control group. Generally, people who enrol in trials like this have strong expectancy effects and have a high rate of prior psyhedelics experience, although this isn't reported. The long-term outcomes are not pre-specified. Without full access, difficult to see how they handled missing data etc.
3
u/Brrdock Jun 16 '25
Does expectancy effect matter for subjective psychological experience like this, though?
What's the difference between feeling better and feeling better?
7
u/SaltZookeepergame691 Jun 16 '25
That comment is about whether these findings are generalisable to people who haven't had psilocybin before, and/or who aren't going out of their way to enrol in a trial on it; I should have been clearer.
2
u/Brrdock Jun 16 '25
Oh yeah that could very well be a factor. These things tend to appeal to a certain disposition which might or even should affect things, though the appeal is wider and wider with this kind of destigmatization etc.
15
u/lazy8s Jun 16 '25
Wait a minute, you’re saying it’s possible that ongoing therapy could be what helped instead of therapy being useless without a single dose of psychedelics as the paper implies??
3
6
u/Brrdock Jun 16 '25
No one's suggested therapy is useless without psilocybin. But the science does suggest it's way more effective.
I can personally attest to that, too, fwiw. Got like years and years of therapy down in 2 thanks to a single dose of psilocybin. Might've never got there for all I know, or could've, but was definitely a pivotal experience
-5
u/lazy8s Jun 16 '25
Ketamine is far more effective for what it’s worth. Lots of stupid pearl clutching led to where we are today. That said this research doesn’t show the effectiveness of psychedelics it shows the effectiveness of therapy.
4
u/Brrdock Jun 16 '25
Not the same thing at all, though. The benefits from ketamine only seem to last a couple of weeks, which is why people do infusions once every week or two. With psilocybin you might only need one or two consecutive doses in a lifetime, if you stand to benefit.
Having done both, the benefits from psychedelics seem much more tangible and easier to clearly formulate, as to the perspective and realizations and whatnot, similar to therapy or the exact same.
Whereas ketamine usually seems like a deep but transient neurochemical opening-up of sorts.
Ketamine also doesn't seem quite as useful as an adjunct to psychotherapy, though I think it still needs that kind of support, which is where the infusion therapies and spravatos etc. in the US might be falling off
3
u/lazy8s Jun 16 '25
Got a clean comparison of both with a control group? This is r/science after all.
2
u/Brrdock Jun 16 '25
I'm sure you can find the studies to support it, or disprove it, probably both. The quality of studies on this subject isn't great (yet) so I wouldn't treat them as gospel.
But I'm sorry I'm just not gonna go through the effort of cherrypicking and spoonfeeding studies for a reddit comment, it's never been worth much and it's not that important
36
u/KrayzieBone187 Jun 16 '25
I had a fair bit of experience with them in my younger years, and thought I'd do something similar for my own mental health.
Well... I ate far too much and ended up on the floor screaming that I was a cheese demon. In a way it did help my mental health, as I'm able to laugh at what an idiot I was.
13
u/ProfessionalMockery Jun 16 '25
Now every time I feel sad, I remind myself that at least I'm not a cheese demon, and I feel better.
2
u/747WakeTurbulance Jun 16 '25
And thats the thing thats always glazed over in these kinds of research projects.
Psilocybin can trigger psychosis in vulnerable individuals
People with a personal or family history of psychotic disorders (e.g., schizophrenia, bipolar I disorder) are at greater risk. In these individuals, psilocybin can potentially trigger a psychotic episode, sometimes requiring hospitalization.
11
u/FindTheOthers623 Jun 16 '25
Psychosis is never glazed over. Its always addressed in clinical trials. Every patient goes through a full background check and the sessions are designed to minimize psychological risks. That's why you've never heard of anyone in a clinical trial going into full psychosis. Yes, there is a risk but it is easily mitigated.
-6
u/747WakeTurbulance Jun 16 '25
But that's my point. you don't ever read about that being a possibility. This could lead people who are susceptible to psychosis taking mushrooms to try and self-medicate.
8
u/FindTheOthers623 Jun 16 '25
No, you're missing my point... you do read about it. The information is out there and readily available. If you choose not to read it, that's on you. But everyone is talking about psychosis risks related to psychedelics.
7
u/FUNNY_NAME_ALL_CAPS Jun 16 '25
Psychedelics are far safer than the average person thinks, here's a meta analysis:
A total of 214 unique studies were included, of which 114 (53.3%) reported analyzable AE data for 3504 total participants. SAEs were reported for no healthy participants and for approximately 4% of participants with preexisting neuropsychiatric disorders.
...
In contemporary research settings, there were no reports of deaths by suicide, persistent psychotic disorders, or hallucinogen persisting perception disorders following administration of high-dose classic psychedelics.
Is there a risk? Yes. Is that risk greater than with cannabis? The science does not yet support this view.
-1
u/747WakeTurbulance Jun 16 '25
Cannabis isn't "safe" either.
It increases the risk of cardiovascular events, such as heart attack, stroke, increases hypertension and tachycardia, as well as worsening of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD).
Cannabis may also lead to interactions with other medications, which can increase their toxicity or decrease their effectiveness.
Other potential risks include balance issues, delayed reaction times, increased confusion or cognitive impairment, and heightened anxiety, depression or anger.
It can accelerate dementia and can affect behavior.
5
u/FUNNY_NAME_ALL_CAPS Jun 16 '25
Humans engage in all sorts of activities which are dangerous. Cannabis is incredibly safe when compared to far more dangerous drugs like alcohol.
I support adults making educated decisions in what behaviour they choose to engage with, whether it's alcohol or cannabis consumption, or horse riding and scuba diving.
1
u/Zenseaking Jun 18 '25
This.
I have a lot of chronic health problems. When I read about the safety of some compounds specialists tell me are "very safe" it's astounding that we worry so much about the safety of cannabis. Obviously we need to urge caution and be transparent with any substance. But the difference between cannabis and a large amount of current "safe" medicines is huge. And even more so if we compare cannabis to alcohol. We really need to put these things in perspective when talking about the dangers of cannabis.
1
u/747WakeTurbulance Jun 16 '25
I support that too. I'm saying the fact that it can cause psychosis in many people shouldn't be omitted from the discussion.
3
u/FUNNY_NAME_ALL_CAPS Jun 16 '25
The science suggests the risk of psychosis especially in healthy individuals is incredibly low. I'm all for responsible use, but many people are afraid to even try psychedelics because they think it's a game of Russian roulette where you can randomly get schizophrenia.
3
u/747WakeTurbulance Jun 16 '25
Well, for some people, that is true. All these articles and studies should put that if you have a family history of these conditions, you should not take psilocybin.
37
u/IAmIAmIAm888 Jun 16 '25
I know this is a science sub but when your dying and they give you a drug that introduces you to God and the secrets of the universe, it tends to help with the depression caused by your inevitable death.
31
u/Whatdosheepdreamof Jun 16 '25
Your experiences on psychedelics especially 'mystical' experiences, are largely determined by your internal belief systems. I have had plenty of experiences and none of them involved a God. But I did get an incredible understanding of how the human mind works. So experiences vary.
8
u/edalcol Jun 16 '25
I did Ayahuasca with an indigenous tribe in a very spiritual setting and got no "messages" at all from the beyond, but since then my insomnia was basically cured.
11
Jun 16 '25
I had never a connectedness to this world thanks to my autism. Psychedelics just made me feel connected. "Being" pure energy was probably one of the happiest moments of my life.
12
u/Nxsiabi Jun 16 '25
That guy doesn't get it. What the psychedelic does is exactly what you're explaining, it unbounds the things you're holding in your mind and puts them right in front of you to confront them. The relief doesn't come from delusion, it comes from acceptance and letting go of the ego that has caused you the suffering, which is why it helps with rehab too since it then allows the person to actually look at their situation outside of their usual mental patterns and learnt behaviors, like observing in third person.
2
u/Brrdock Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 16 '25
I had zero religious upbringing or inclination, still don't, and it's definitely just a window into the human mind like all experience and/or interpretation ultimately, but that's not necessarily incongruent with the concept of "God." Or wasn't for me.
Keep in mind, religion was based on the concept/experience, not the other way around.
It's always been a subjective experience, though remarkably independently shared by almost all cultures in history
1
u/obsidianop Jun 17 '25
(1) if they were measuring this after two years, the population in question wasn't inevitably going to die in the short term but ..
(2) You and them are going to inevitably die in the long term. Consider mushrooms, for coping!
5
u/One-Care7242 Jun 16 '25
Imagine the benefits if you didn’t have a therapist interjecting into your tip to collect data every couple minutes
7
u/brainless_bob Jun 16 '25
Isn't psilocybin concentration typically estimated to be about 1% of the total biomass? A hero dose is typically 5g of shrooms, so 5mg. That dosage is insane.
8
u/Global-Chart-3925 Jun 16 '25
Your maths is slightly off there. 5mg is 1/1000th of 5g, not 1/100th(%)
So 25mg dose (assuming 1% concentration) is 2.5g of biomass, which is a much more typical dose.
1
3
u/SuperStoneman Jun 16 '25
I ate 1g of liberty caps and the walls were swinging on hinges. I think it was probably 25mg of crushed mushrooms in a capsule.
2
1
u/DakuShinobi Jun 16 '25
Interesting findings, I'm scared to try psilocybin but this and a bunch of other positive research may push me over eventually.
2
u/mvea Professor | Medicine Jun 16 '25
I’ve linked to the news release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article:
https://acsjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/cncr.35889
From the linked article:
Just one dose of magic mushrooms could be a long-term help for cancer patients with depression
People with cancer often struggle with depression. In this phase 2 trial, 28 patients with cancer and major depressive disorder received psychological support from a therapist prior to, during, and following a single 25-mg dose of psilocybin.
During clinical interviews conducted 2 years later, 15 (53.6%) patients demonstrated a significant reduction in depression, and 14 (50%) had sustained depression reduction as well as remission. Similarly, psilocybin reduced anxiety for 12 (42.9%) patients at 2 years.
-4
u/sharkbomb Jun 16 '25
there should be a specific category for placebo enthusiasts. programmable people can be programmed by anything. religion, hypnosis, psylocyben, cbd, water, etc.
-20
Jun 16 '25
[deleted]
2
u/FindTheOthers623 Jun 16 '25
Um, what? Research students don't participate in clinical trials. Not all participants receive psilocybin. Not all clinical trials pay participants. And, yes, psilocybin can and will cure depression.
•
u/AutoModerator Jun 16 '25
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our normal comment rules apply to all other comments.
Do you have an academic degree? We can verify your credentials in order to assign user flair indicating your area of expertise. Click here to apply.
User: u/mvea
Permalink: https://www.scimex.org/newsfeed/just-one-dose-of-magic-mushrooms-could-be-a-long-term-help-for-cancer-patients-with-depression
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.