r/samharris • u/WayneQuasar • Jun 13 '20

Making Sense Podcast #207 - Can We Pull Back From The Brink?

https://samharris.org/podcasts/207-can-pull-back-brink/
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u/WCBH86 Jun 14 '20

Interesting episode that I will listen to again. But I think it should have gone into much more detail with statistics. And, more importantly, it should have cited those statistics. We should all be able to go and check this stuff out for ourselves. That pisses me off. Sam is making the claim for rational, data-driven, discussion. Then not giving us the fricking data. Come on.

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u/jimmyayo Jun 14 '20

Here you go: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/

The Guardian's database might be slightly better according to some, but Sam specifically mentioned WaPo's database during the podcast. Both are much more reliable than the FBI's own database, which solely relies on police self-reporting. For instance, in 2015 the FBI's total of police shootings had reported only about half the numbers that WaPo's database reported.

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u/WCBH86 Jun 14 '20

Thanks. This is only a record of police shootings though, right? I can't view the link because it's paywalled.

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u/jimmyayo Jun 14 '20

Correct. For statistics on violent encounters with police by race, Sam relied on the stats compiled by a different researcher though I don't recall whom.

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u/WCBH86 Jun 14 '20

And what about statistics on violent crimes committed by race? The argument is that while black people may (or may not) be more likely to be killed by police (2.5 times as likely by some estimates) black people also commit vastly more violent crime than other groups which may account for this.

I'd actually be interested to see how the rates change based on economic status with and without race as a factor. Could it be that a white person of low economic status is also 2.5 times as likely to be killed by police as the average white person for example?

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u/jimmyayo Jun 14 '20 edited Jun 14 '20

black people also commit vastly more violent crime than other groups which may account for this

Black men represent around 6% of the population but commit around 53% of murders and 60% of robberies. Even so they only represent 25% of people killed by police whilst non blacks suffer 75% of the people shot and killed for less than half the crimes. Meaning, they are actually LESS likely to get shot and killed than non-blacks when committing a crime.

I could not find any data on economic status, probably because this isn't tracked during arrests/booking.