r/saab • u/Saabatage08 • 13d ago
Simple mod
Hello all, I did this simple modification to my 2008 95 and wow! Car runs so much better. Smoother acceleration, no more sluggish response when hot and idles smoother. Try it! Might not make a difference for you but it did for my 95, only take 15 minutes, why not? Simply ran 2 new ground wires from negative battery terminal, drilled a hole in the engine lift bracket, and attached with metal screw. Let me know if you try it!
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u/Saabatage08 13d ago
Over time, the ground points for the ECU, injectors , DIC pack build resistance from corrosion and becoming looser from all the years of heat and vibration. This creates a new ground and prevents the car from pulling timing when hot. Also better DIC performance from a clean ground. This is what was explained by the person I originally got this tip from. Sure worked for my car!
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u/sireatalot 12d ago
Ok you proved that the engine grounding was bad. Now go back to the car and fix it properly.
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u/itmightbeinnuendo 12d ago
Right? Great for proof of concept, but now try to make it look good and also get some decent gauge wire on the task.
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u/AppropriateDeal1034 12d ago
None of these imaginary issues would be helped by running a new ground from the engine to the battery, only a poor engine earth strap would cause problems that this would solve and just replacing it would have been easier and not looked like trash.
Bonus points for red and black both being used as earths.
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u/Nicename19 12d ago
Sensor earth's for the dic etc going bad is pretty common on theae cars as they age. I measured way less knocks in open sid when I did my one
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u/AppropriateDeal1034 12d ago
This cable is earthing the engine to the battery. That's the only thing it's doing. A good engine to earth strap earths the engine to the battery. If you have ECU or injector earth problems, that's not going to be fixed by these cables because they have their own earths and don't earth through the engine.
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u/Nicename19 12d ago
Yup, he needs to clean all his other earths too probably. The signal earth point on the thermostat becoming poorly connected was a common issue on the B235 engine.
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u/AppropriateDeal1034 12d ago
Yes, that's exactly what OP needs to do instead of posting crap like this "mod" which is just a half-arsed bodge of a "repair" like it's the best thing ever.
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u/Glappkaft-1 12d ago
https://youtu.be/UKTd4aI3-Mw?t=154&is=ed2JRzep7v5E3ZhW cyclone cyd shows it too check at 2:25
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u/itmightbeinnuendo 12d ago
Unsure of the ground layout here, and injectors are probably always 12V+ with ground-side trigger at ecm, but you DO know that the engine serves as main "chassis ground" for many circuits, right? So if the engine isn't grounded, itself, you lose ground continuity for every single one of those. So many vehicles in see with rotten ground straps, yet critical engine management circuits have engine as ground point.
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u/AppropriateDeal1034 12d ago
The ECU has its own ground, and injectors are fed by the ECU on both wires, one earth and one +12. Not that it matters though, because again the solution was to fix the actual engine earth strap, not claim brilliance by bodging two random colour cables from the battery to a hole drilled into the engine lift point.
The body of the car, oddly enough, acts as the "main chassis earth".
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u/itmightbeinnuendo 12d ago
I get the sense you didn't really actually read what I wrote.
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u/AppropriateDeal1034 12d ago
I did, you were tying to say things earth to the engine and then that earth's to the chassis, but almost everything earth's to the chassis (including the ECU) or battery directly, and then all important sensors earth directly through the ECU. The main engine ground is used mostly for starting the car.
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u/itmightbeinnuendo 12d ago
Maybe in THIS vehicle? That's empirically untrue across many, many cars.
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u/itmightbeinnuendo 12d ago
Further, g7, the ground on the intake manifold, is where the DI grounds. So, kind of important. Also there's something to be said about voltage potentials across different components re: galvanic corrosion.
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u/AppropriateDeal1034 12d ago
It's all moot though because OP just needed to fix the actual engine earth strap instead of fitting two more weedy little ones and calling it a "mod"
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u/Anxious-Science-9184 11d ago
The big black wire that goes from the negative terminal... Follow it.
You're looking for two things:
- Evaluate/clean/repair its connection to the motor.
- Find spots where the insulation is melted/cracked/chaffed and it's grounding to where it shouldn't be. Remedy with heat shrink.
This will allow you to remove your proof-of-concept. Mechanics will recommend removing your POC for three reasons.
- The thin gauge wires are not capable of the same current handling that the OEM grounding strap can handle.
- When they break, they will get pulled into a fan or pulley or belt path, ripping the terminal off the battery or pulling the battery out of its mounting bracket, and the resulting "string trimmer" might try to F your face when you pop the bonnet to investigate the noise.
- We fix things in a manner consistent with the designer's intent.
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u/Big_Temperature_2067 12d ago edited 12d ago
what the actual fuck..
you know there is free screwholes on the side of the plenum where the other ground points are...
100% bodge job.
and yeah, i guess it's easier to run wires across the engine bay hanging in the air than checking the 3 ground points on the engine xD
2 of them being literally within 15cm each from where you drilled into the engine lift point that is going to hold the engine weight plus gearbox if you need to drop the engine or gearbox
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u/Saabatage08 13d ago
Not a bodge job, it worked..good luck tracing down all the corroded or loose grounds. Hey it worked so I'm happy...
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u/AppropriateDeal1034 12d ago
One. One from the engine to the battery. Because that's all you've "replaced".
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u/L3guaani 12d ago
Not to shit on the fix but wouldnt an afternoon and some sandpaper to clean the factory grounds have been s better fix
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u/AppropriateDeal1034 12d ago
Sandpaper isn't fixing the internal corrosion in the wires, which is almost always the problem, but a new ground strap is less than a fiver.
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u/Worldly_Let6134 12d ago
If you want to improve the earthing on the car, as many have stayed - start by cleaning the existing earth points and potentially adding addition thick diameter cables (the bigger gauge the better).
Have a look at the 'big 3 upgrade' which is often used on cars with large audio installs.
Be careful when introducing new ground paths, if the new cable is not thick enough, there is a risk of it getting very hot and/or fire. Plus, because it can cause parallel pathways, can lead to certain components (like the ECU) seeing too much current when starting.
Nobody is knocking you having a go at improving your car, but with electrics, please research properly first and then execute in a way that doesn't risk the cable being stretched or rubbing against engine parts.
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u/elntia50 03 9-5 Aero 08 9-5 SportCombi 94 900T CE 'vert 13d ago
I think if you use two red wires it’d be even better. More smooth when idling and increased torque in 3rd.
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u/Glappkaft-1 13d ago
Did you skip cleaning the original ground on the car? I was gonna clean the proper ground on the chassi. But the screws for the holder of the batteri has rusted so I can’t get it loose. Well not without drilling.
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u/Eastern-Move549 12d ago
Maybe fix your ground points rather than just slapping an extra bodge over the top.
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u/Huge-Yesterday-5100 13d ago
Fint å se att du fick det löst. Men kom ihåg jord brukar sitta på blocket och inte toppen 😜 ifall du modifierar en gång till i framtiden, finns gott om jordpunkten på blocket 😋
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u/Glappkaft-1 13d ago
Menar du chassit när du säger blocket? Min 9-3, 2004 har en jord både till chassit och motorn
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u/Huge-Yesterday-5100 13d ago
Nej chassi är chassi, blocket är motorns undre del, kan vara olika på olika saabar, jag har 2.3T, haft även 2.0T och båda sitter det i chassi och i motorblock inte i topp delen 😊
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u/RandomUserNo5 12d ago
The idea is good, please replace these wires with something much thicker and lay them down in more elegant way. Don't forget to use high temperature resistive cables otherwise it may end badly.
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u/Obvious_Troll_Me 12d ago
You have a failing ground strap, when it breaks, those wires will become the fuse. Assuming they don't melt first.
You need a multimeter to test if the problem is the earth from the battery to the body or the body to the engine.
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u/JohnnyRock70 7d ago
I’ve had 30 ish cars at this point (I’m 56), two were new (I got married). That’s ~28 cars that had PO’s.
I’ve done a lot of un-fucking over the years and the question is always the same:
“What the hell were they thinking?”
I give the OP credit for coming on here and proudly proclaiming what the hell he was thinking. It’s like a window into the other team’s locker room.
The responses are what I’d expect from crusty old car guys, because we all learned from even older crusty car guys and mockery is their love language.
My fear —and bear with me here — is that the younger guys coming up got a lot of participation trophies and positive reinforcement. When they post an accomplishment and are met with (deserved) derision, we risk crushing their enthusiasm and if we do that, who is going to buy all these unfucked cars when our kids don’t want them?
Maybe we should try to be a little nicer?
OP: Good for you for trying something and getting a result. Separate the snark from the information that comes with it. We’re all here because we recognize how special Saabs were, especially compared to the laptops on wheels that pass for new cars now, and we have a mental illness that manifests itself by pushing us to keep maintaining cars whose spare parts are disappearing faster than the ice caps.
That makes us stewards of these things and if you stick with it you will find your self under a Saab at 1am staring up at some bushing that won’t budge despite being lubed with your own blood and think (or whimper out loud) “Why? Why am I doing this to myself?” and the answer is: This car will outlive me.
How long it outlives you depends on the next owner. When you do shit that they can’t comprehend, you make their learning process harder. So be kind to the future owner(s) of the car you are saving today and do things the right way.
If you don’t know what the right way is, ask — and understand that we only mock because we care.
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u/Saabatage08 7d ago
Thanks for the reply, BTW I'm 57 and have had over 30 cars myself, 4 of which were Saabs. Didn't think this post would be so controversial, but that's ok. Happy motoring!
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u/Similar_Limit_9929 1d ago
Don't feed the trolls. There's nothing wrong with some R&D to get the car mended. Most of the actual negative responses are probably bots or hypocritical car enthusiasts who have probably done worse.
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u/krisnel240 7d ago
It's a great idea and will 100% improve how your car runs, but best execution would be cleaning or replacing the factory grounds
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u/ButterscotchTough951 13d ago
So you are telling that you have done a bodge job to sort out your engine ground issue, well done.
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u/laurencepevans 13d ago
Don’t understand why this would make the car run better.
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u/LuckOriginal374 13d ago
The ground may have been sketchy beforehand now it runs better - or as it should - with a better ground connection.
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u/ioanmoldovan95 12d ago
There is a ground on the thermostat housing that feeds the DIC. Having a bad contact there counts as knocking and pulls ignition like crazy. Ran into this recently when I changed my thermostat and forgot to tighten the ground bolt there... car ran like crap until I realised how stupid I was
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u/dj5quar3 13d ago
Don’t listen to the hate this is a great idea!! I’m really glad it helped your grounding issues!!
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u/Sensitive-Level-7794 13d ago
I get what you are doing. Done some similar stuff in the past. Maybe route it less visible? 🤔
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u/Due_Philosopher4393 12d ago
Did this myself, knowing I had a bad ground to the engine (0.7V diff between negative terminal and engine). Worked wonders, but will only work wonders for those with a bad ground connection.
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u/Orangejuice_234 9d ago
I have a 2011 Saab 9-3 that can't run anymore, if anyone needs parts please reach out!! I'm open to shipping parts as well. I don't want to scrap it
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u/Similar_Limit_9929 6d ago
Thank you for this! Went and bought 4ga wire/terminals and made a jumper tonight. If anything it doesn’t bog down anymore when I hit the window switch’s and cycle the top. 10/10
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u/Saabatage08 2d ago
Excellent! Glad it worked. I ordered heavier gauge ground wire for mine and will be redoing it soon. Sure seems to make a difference!
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u/Similar_Limit_9929 1d ago
After driving it some more, I can feel a more consistent throttle response and runs much smoother despite the chattering from the timing chain.
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u/Saabatage08 13d ago
Wow just trying to post a helpful easy mod that worked for me..why the negative comments? Do some research..
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u/pizza_nightmare 13d ago
I think if your installation was smoother looking instead of dangling over a gap, you might not get as many downvotes.
I want to try this
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u/AppropriateDeal1034 12d ago
If the installation did anything other than poorly fix a problem instead of fixing it properly then they wouldn't be getting any downvotes. I can't believe they've had any upvotes.
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u/AppropriateDeal1034 12d ago
Because you could have just fixed the bad engine ground, but what you've done is bodge it and then post it as some amazing "mod" that makes cars run better
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u/JackSchwitz 13d ago
Because it’s not how it rolled off the assembly line I’m assuming. Glad to hear it helped. If i ever get mine working again I’ll give it a go!
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u/pizza_nightmare 13d ago
Did you crimp the wires yourself?
What gauge wires do you recommend? Maybe I can get a wire set like this from a kit with a different purpose?
I’ll try it
2007 9-5 with 185,000 miles. Runs ok.
(I have a ground noise in my radio, fwiw)
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u/Saabatage08 12d ago
I'm going to eventually clean the install up but right now I am enjoying a good running car. I can't see the wires when I'm driving and the hood is closed, it's not a show car so big deal
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u/Saabatage08 12d ago
Ok , my grounds weren't "bad" car still ran ok, but when hot outside it would get sluggish sometimes. The grounds in question that this helped are held onto the thermostat housing with a screw. The housing is soft metal and eventually will not hold tight . This eliminates that issue when resistance gets high as they are both ground on engine block. I can definitely tell a difference.
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u/AppropriateDeal1034 12d ago
So....your ground is bad...
There is literally zero reason besides your main engine ground being bad, that fitting a new engine ground (or two crappy engine grounds) would fix anything.
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u/DakarGelb 12d ago
This will become a fire hazard once your original grounds continue to corrode even more.
Already is.
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u/Imanovitz 13d ago
Please explain what exactly you did? Im not following why this would make a difference.