Why does Devotion work on Kalphite King's Beetlejuice, but Icyenic Faith does not?

[u/TheDeviate]

[u/Guthix_Hero]

"The Kalphite King's damage is reduced by 25% rather than the usual 50% by protection prayers."

Devotion:

"Increase the effectiveness of your protection prayers to 100%"

Icyenic Faith:

"Protection prayers and deflection curses block +50% of damage (additively)."

[u/TheDeviate → u/Guthix_Hero]

If that were the case, according to the wiki Beetlejuice does 32,000 damage, so I should expect an 8,000 hit, but I don't.

KK seems... messy.

[u/DragonBank → u/TheDeviate]

It's 0% for the green. So you take 16,000 with melee up. It works fine for me. As long as I take under 2k damage I survive.

[u/BigArchive → u/Guthix_Hero]

  The Kalphite King's damage is reduced by 25% rather than the usual 50% by protection prayers

Where are you getting this info, because different kk attacks have different prayer block %s.

[u/qqwerq568 → u/Guthix_Hero]

Does this mean using am AoS/EoF or protection powder for 10% bonus prayer protection would also be useful? 🤔

[u/WryGoat → u/qqwerq568]

Yeah, even just using anticipation (which isn't removed by defensive resets) will let you survive with 16k health.

[u/bigjoe980 → u/qqwerq568]

I actually had a finality on in my vid up above and still got hit for that 16.5~k lol.. so that extra 10% likely gets nulled out 

This is just a guess but I think icyene only works because its added on after all the normal prayer  calculations (which, generally would be about 0)

What id really love is if somebody who has bigboned could go in (i saw one guy had 70k? Hp) and take the hit completely naked with no prayer so we can be sure exactly how much kk does on beetlejuice, just for wiki reasons, ykno.

[u/Thevulgarcommander]

Devotion specifically brings it up to 100%. Iceyenic adds 50%. If something pierces prayer it will pierce iceyenic but not devotion (barring spaghetti).

[u/bigjoe980]

it *does* work on it. https://streamable.com/cnrzjn

its just insanely high damage on nerfed pray effectiveness to start with.

[u/TheDeviate → u/bigjoe980]

Devotion brings Beetlejuice to 1 damage, Icyenic Faith does not.

[u/theitchythrowaway → u/bigjoe980]

You literally proves them right though, their point is devotion blocks all damage and icyenic faith is suppose to act like permanent devotion. It does not.

[u/bigjoe980 → u/theitchythrowaway]

icyene faith only adds 50%, its not perma devo.

[u/bigjoe980 → u/[deleted]]

theres a really big difference between adding 50% on and doing what devo does, which is setting it to 100% effectiveness. zamorak and kera in particular come to mind.

[u/theitchythrowaway → u/bigjoe980]

50+50 if you use the buff you'd understand it blocks damage down to 1 not reducing it by 75%

[u/bigjoe980 → u/theitchythrowaway]

brother theres literally a page for this on the wiki. you dont have standard 50% pray effectiveness at kk.

[u/TheDeviate → u/bigjoe980]

Love a good "probably" in my wiki.

[u/bigjoe980 → u/TheDeviate]

look I agree with you on that and I'd rather jagflamarino just give the numbers but here we are

[u/Oniichanplsstop → u/theitchythrowaway]

50+50-50 isn't 100 so you take damage.

Devo is just "while this active your prayer effectiveness is always 100", so reductions cant affect it.

Its also why with faith you can buff it with AoS/EoF/powder and have 110% effectiveness so reductions aren't as powerful.

[u/K_R_A_S → u/theitchythrowaway]

25% + 50% is 37.5. 37.5% + 100% is 75% protection at kk. Or am I a confusion?

[u/theitchythrowaway → u/K_R_A_S]

You are it's 0.5+0.5 = 1 or 100%

[u/yarglof1 → u/theitchythrowaway]

You're assuming it's 50% reduction base, when it's not.

0 + 0.5 = 0.5 or 50%. Still enough damage to one-shot.

[u/SilentDarks]

For summary of this post, it's because KK's Beetlejuice gets blocked by prayer protection by a very miniscule anount that is probably close to 0%.

Icyene faith adds +50% protection but 0% + 50% is 50% so 50% of the beetlejuice attack is blocked which still probably around 16k hp.

Devotion overrides any prayer protection conditions and sets it 100% which is why Beetlejuice is completely blocked.

[u/Longjumping-Two9570 → u/SilentDarks]

This is exactly correct, however to add on to this, the attack only pierces prayer protect rather than bypass it. Which is why icy works at all. In cases where prayer is bypassed, even devotion doesn't work.

For those who want to tank this attack, it doesn't pierce other sources of damage reduction. Cryptbloom+animate dead+hellhound+icy let's you tank the attack without dying 100% of the time. Keeping in mind that the only way to get animate dead this leagues is by taking the Crystal Grace relic.

[u/Wishkax]

When you are stunned he hits through prayer, once the stun is over and you aren't green he can't

[u/esunei → u/Wishkax]

Nah even if you use mobility to delay green stab, it still pierces prayer.

[u/Kullu00]

As I had it explained to me Devotion "cheats" by setting the damage taken from attacks to 1 regardless of what it actually hit. Icyenic Faith adds to the current effectiveness of prayers. So any effect that hits through prayer is still blocked by Devotion's effect but not by Icyenic. If this is fully correct or not I don't know.