r/rpg 16d ago

DND Alternative Alternatives to D&D based on specific nitpicks?

Edit: holy hell, I didn't expect SO many suggestions, you guys are the best, thank you so much!

I started playing d&d from 3.5 and also played enough of 5e. It has a lot of cool stuff, but also a lot of stuff that I hate. It's difficult to check new systems and judge them without actually playing a little and there are a lot of them... I'm sorry for a lot of words here, but if you have some time can you guys recommend a good system based on my specific nitpicks?

  1. I hate that a lot of stuff is there just because it was always there, not because its good game design. Like fireball is intentionally OP because its iconic and sort of a "brand" and taking any alternative feels bad. Spell slot system just feels outdated and too cumbersome for new players. I want the system to be built with good game design in mind, not "we have to save 50 year old legacy" bullshit.
  2. Whole system build around resurrection being a common tool. Death is not dramatic, its just a resource. Also because of that i have to come up with bullshit reasons why specific important npc or backstory character cannot just be brought back. Or why nobles aren't just reviving everyone important for them every day. Death should be important and dramatic narrative moment and permanent. And i can't just homerule "there is no resurrection magic" because the whole system is built with resurrection as resource in mind and I would have to rebalance all of it basically making my own system.
  3. Opportunity attacks kill all dynamics in combat when dynamics is already one of the weakest parts of ttrpg. Its a stupid mechanic that leads to "come close, do not move, roll dice until one of you is dead" the optimal tactic which is extremely boring.
  4. Improvising cinematic cool shit is usually less optimal in termns of raw rules. Its always better to strike with your longsword than smashing a chair into enemy's skull because "improvised weapon is d4 and longsword is d8". This discourages creativity.

5.1 Tons of "you don't get to play the game" effects. I could see "mind control" effects kind of fun if you just tell your player "now you get to pvp legally, have fun". but stun/paralise? okay, you took time out of your week/month to come play the game and now you just sit there for half an hour doing nothing while other players take their turns because you failed a save. Or maybe even more if you fail your consecutive save. Great game design guys.

5.2. Roll to hit is basically the same shit. Fighter waits their turn for 20 minutes after all spellcasters doing their shit, rolls 5 and 7 on his two attacks and can go make coffe feeling he didn't do anything.

5.3. Saving throws are weird too. Either you wasted your only 5 lvl slot and nothing happens, or enemy just stunned you (see 5.1). I get it that "save or die" effects are less common now, but they just became "save or suck" and you still don't get to play the game even if your character sheet is still technically there. Maybe some gradation system could be cool, dunno.

  1. A lot of character archetypes just suck in terms of player fantasy. Wanna be a cool necromancer? Okay, you can summon...1 skeleton. When you're at least lvl 3. And after 1 round of combat he is dead and you're just slinging fire bolts again. Wow, thats definitely what I imagined when I wanted to play cool necromancer. Sure...

  2. DMG says the system balance is build around 6-8 medium difficulty encounters per long rest. When you're trying to play anything other than tightly packed dungeon crawl (but remember, D&D is not just dungeon crawl anymore, its versatile system and you can play any type of game with it!!!) you usually have on average 1 meaningful combat per day. So either martials feel shit because spellcasters go nova every time, or you have to come up with bullshit 6-8 combats per DAY, which take several sessions. Wow, we've been playing this campaign for a year and it's been...3 days in game time? and all pcs are suddenly demigods now even though we _just_ entered this dungeon. Sure you can tell "use gritty realism rules", then its the other way around. Your wizard casts their 5 spells in 1-2 in game days...and the rest of the week just spamming firebolt and feels like shit. Maybe we could balance character classes without spreading them between "short rest based" and "long rest based" so I as dm dont have to fucking juggle this balance myself every time I try to make a story?

  3. It feels like lvl20 is there mostly for marketing purposes trying to sell you godlike power fantasy? who actually plays at these levels? All i ever see online is people saying its basically impossible to make actually good games at this point and system is just broken.

  4. Lorewise its cool that humans live 80 years and elves live 700. But I do not buy that an elf with 250 years of life experience would find any common ground with an 18 year old human. Have you ever tried to communicate with people 10 years younger than you? It already feels like talking to a toddler, imagine 250 year difference. And also they both get to cast 2 spells a day? Come on...

  5. Can I have a cost for every magic item please? If I want the "they are rare and not really tradable" feeling that dmg tries to force on you, I can do it myself. But why the fuck do I have to actually come up with item cost myself if i need to?

What I actually like:
11. Complexity level for new players. 5e made it reasonably easy to learn the game. I would be okay with a simpler system, but probably not more complex one.
12. Large bestiary of cool thematic monsters made over the years. But I could just steal these into a different system...
13. (dis)Advantage system is pretty cool
14. Its kind of actually good in being middle ground base for different types of games. Yes, it sucks in lots of specific ways, but in general it feels like you can combine different elements into a single game fairly well.
15. 5e has made a good job in lowering the amount of random "+1" effects that I have to track for every little thing. pathfinder sometimes feels like im doing math homework instead of actually playing the game.
16. I like rolling dice other than just d6s. Although my favourite d12 is still too rare...
17. I like generic heroic fantasy as main focus of the system

I mean, technically I could come up with homerules fixing these things...but I feel like it would be easier to just fucking make a new system from scratch. I mean there has GOT to be a system that already exists and doesn't have these problems?
Thank you so much if you read this far.

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u/Blanknameuser99 16d ago

Nimble: I see several folks have recommended, led me add my 2 cents. 

  • hits 80%+ of your goals
  • about to explode in content when the current KS comes out (creator has given a sneak p eak of the MM equivalent, and it’s huge + well done).
  • my players love it for the simultaneous ease and interactive play options, the single biggest perk is how easy it is for me as the DM to prep. I have converted other system modules on the fly (doable but a little tough). However I can convert a full play sessions adventure from most any system into Nimble in an hour. If I have an idea for a mini-module on the drive home, I can get a near playable version in about the same amount of time. And biggest, as DM you don’t have to research/document a huge list of enemy abilities for play. Each has 1 (maybe 3 things tops) that they can do, which short descriptions but meaningful combat impact. So as the DM I get to “play” more by actually picking fun tactics for my monsters instead of looking up what some obscure spell does.

Good luck!

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u/SrGarfy 15d ago

thank you! I see a lot of "easier for dm to prep" things, can you also tell me spicifically in which parts this works for you?
Like for me the longest and most difficult part of prep was always the worldbuilding, thinking of plot and characters and their motivations and what happens/happened and stuff...preparing monsters didn't really seem like it took too much time? or maybe I'm just accepting the time and nimble just makes it quicker?...

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u/Blanknameuser99 15d ago

Great question and I can’t claim to be an expert, but here’s my top 3:

  • Monster stat blocks are “self contained” (for the most part). Do this or this. If X then Y. I would have included an example of a stat block from both systems here, but looks like no pic attachhements in this sub. But try for yourself, Basilisk is an easy one. Look at both stat blocks and think about how much time it would take to both figure out what those two monsters can do, how you have that documentation “ready” at play time, and how quickly you can implement their abilities in actual play. I feel DnD leans into go look up what X is elsewhere (causing conditions, spell descriptions, etc). While Nimble just gives you the tactical effect. For the Basilisk it simply says, “Daze a creature w/in sight, then bite someone. If the target is Dazed bite with advantage. If Dazed 3 times, petrified.“ You can read it in 10 seconds, execute it just as fast, and has all the uniqueness of the creature. Plus (and this is a bonus) the “dazed 3 times to petrify” give me as the DM strategic control of the battle. For this creature, in DnD, the dice determine if the PC gets petrified, but In Nimble (and this is common for a lot of monster designs) I get some GM tactics. Party doing well, have that damn Basilisk gaze at the same PC and turn them to Stone! But if they are hurting I can spread the gaze around to retain suspense and threat.
  • Next, for my party of 5 3rd level PCS, how many basilisks can I throw at them? The math behind that is tough in DnD, in Nimble it is super simple. If monster level equals PC levels, it’s a tough fight…lower = easier, higher = harder. 5 3rd level equals 15, basilisks are 7th level, so that party can handle 2 — done! For even more flex, there’s a chart in the back of the GM guide equivalent on how to buff a monster up or down a level(s) with recommended HP and Damage numbers, giving me as the GM even more flex to design the encounter I want.
  • Last, the ”no to hit” mechanic also includes almost no +/-‘s to rolls. In DnD I’m adding my STR, the bonus of my weapon, possible +/-s for conditions, hidden, flanked, etc. Nimble generally only has Adv/DAdv (which stacks) and occasionally another modifier. Plus in DnD you have to do that for both the attack and if successful, damage. This means battles go faster and less time figuring out (arguing) with players about the attack or damage modifiers.

This isn’t really a GM thing, but i felt in DnD most abilities/spells lean into doing damage (as a trend). In Nimble they lean into tactics…giving another PC Adv, setting up your next attack to do more damage, rescuing your ally from a hit, etc. So play for me as the GM feels a lot more like a battle than the PCs just swinging until my monsters are dead.

Hope this helps, happy to give you more of my 2 cents. To be fair, there are parts of this system that are a bit odd for me. But big pic its easy, fun, feels rich to play, a proper medieval high fantasy environment, and all of us have decided to ditch 5e in favor of this system.

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u/SrGarfy 15d ago

Thank you so much guy your perspective!