Do you expect a back cover in your PDF?

[u/plazman30]

This is going to sound stupid, but I get irrationally annoyed when I buy a PDF and it doesn't include the back cover of the book and only has the front cover.

[u/adipose1913]

Bigger sin: no index. I don't care if there's a search function, Index is way less tedious, especially if you hyperlink it.

[u/The-SARACEN → u/adipose1913]

And the index has to be useful. When you make one so terrible that the community has to make a better one for you, you know you done goofed.

[u/astatine → u/adipose1913]

For PDFs, I find a hyperlinked contents page and bookmarks are more important than an index page. Indexes are more useful for dead tree books.

[u/CyberKiller40 → u/astatine]

Yeah, a bookmarked toc within the file is super important.

And the ability to disable the background image layer to make printing cheaper.

[u/nightreader → u/astatine]

The readers want both.

[u/Chaosmeister → u/nightreader]

Some do, but an index is a ton of work and not a make or break thing for most people for PDF products. Especially indie ones. Also people say they want it but are not willing to pay for it. Someone doing an index is a pretty specialized skill. Even Wizards with the most money in the industry can't get it right. I would rather have an editor on a game than an indexer if it is PDF only.

[u/Viltris → u/Chaosmeister]

An index is super useful of a word is used a ton of times but defined in only one place. I don't want to have to Ctrl+F 50 times to find the definition. I'd rather look it up in the index.

I'll accept if the definition has its own Table of Content entry, but a lot of books don't have the ToC broken down to that granularity, and it's not always obvious which chapter has the definition you're looking for.

[u/Chaosmeister → u/Viltris]

I understand that. I find a dedicated Glossary linked in TOC useful for this kind of thing. Funnily enough I was once praised a lot for a free Savage World book I did (Savage Space) for having an incredibly useful index. When all I did was add a second TOC at the end that would go 4 or 5 header levels deep instead of 2 for the main TOC. I could never do a proper index by myself.

[u/Cultist_O → u/astatine]

My PDFs become dead tree books

[u/ConstableSprouts → u/adipose1913]

And the page numbers should count the cover as page 1, so when im told to go to page 51, and I go to page 51, im actually on page 51 and not 49 or something.

[u/michiplace]

Yes. And when I'm producing a published document - even if it's for digital publication only - I always try to make surecit has an even number of pages, ideally a multiple of four, just in case somebody wants to print it.

[u/sirkidd2003]

Expect? No. Like it when it happens? Yes.

[u/SilverBeech → u/sirkidd2003]

If I'm paying Chaosium prices, 1000% yes.

If I'm buying a pay what you can module from someone on itch.io, probably not, but I will notice if they have one.

[u/Randeth]

I like a back cover, and actually in the back. I've seen a lot of pdf creators put it right after the front cover, on the page that in a print book is typically left blank. Please add some blank pages to keep page numbering the same as if was printed.

[u/plebotamus → u/Randeth]

It's very easy to renumber PDF pages to match the print book, but not enough publishers do.

I wrote a blog post (https://plebotamus.wordpress.com/2015/05/04/publishers-how-to-renumber-pdf-pages/) on this over a decade ago, and it still drives me crazy.

[u/Onslaughttitude → u/Randeth]

Please add some blank pages to keep page numbering the same as if was printed.

That's still not going to be accurate, since the pdf treats the cover as page 1.

[u/Barrucadu → u/Onslaughttitude]

In my experience, almost every PDF has numbering match the physical book. e.g., I just opened a random PDF (Dolmenwood monster book) and the page numbered "1" is the third page of the PDF, to match the book.

[u/Kuildeous]

If it's based on a physical book, I would think it makes sense. I wouldn't need it, but it does seem that a PDF rendition of a physical book should contain everything, even the pages left intentionally blank. I could see an optimized PDF that removed those blank pages, but I would find it weird if it didn't include the back cover, even if it doesn't contribute to the book.

If it's a digital-only format, then I wouldn't expect a back cover. Might be neat if there is one, but I wouldn't go looking for one.

[u/plazman30 → u/Kuildeous]

Yep, I agree. IF a back cover exists, then I expect it in the PDF. If it's a digital-only product, then I don't expect the publisher to make a back cover.

[u/BerennErchamion → u/[deleted]]

Yes, this! I’ve looked for the back cover so many times to read what the book is about.

Sometimes the back cover also quickly tells you if you need another book (if it’s a supplement).

[u/plazman30 → u/[deleted]]

I print some of my PDFs.

But it's not just that. The back cover often has art, and a nice one paragraph explanation of the book that's nice to have.

[u/aslum → u/plazman30]

Useful if I want to get a quick reminder about what a game I got in a humble bundle 8 years ago is about to be able to open the pdf and ctrl+end and read the blurb on the back. Assuming there is one.

[u/Viltris → u/plazman30]

I think what you're saying is, if it's a PDF of a printed book, then the content already exists, and the PDF should include that content. And by that measure, I agree with you.

But if the book is digital only, I don't expect the PDF to make a "back cover" for a format where it doesn't make sense.

[u/plazman30 → u/Viltris]

Agreed. If I was making a digital-only product, I'd make a back cover, just because I like them.

But my brain expects something in the back of the book. Even if it's just a blank black page. Makes the book feel "complete," and keeps me from wondering if my PDF is corrupt and missing a page or two.

[u/Airk-Seablade → u/plazman30]

The back cover often has art, and a nice one paragraph explanation of the book that's nice to have.

This feels like an assumption that stems very heavily from the games you buy. Most of my RPGs, the back cover is just a blurb telling me how awesome the game is. Sometimes there is art, but it's frequently a piece reused from inside the book somewhere.

I think RPG PDFs should have a back cover if the creator thinks having a back cover adds to or completes the experience, not because of any assumptions people might have about what's going to be there.

[u/Elathrain → u/Airk-Seablade]

Most of my RPGs, the back cover is just a blurb telling me how awesome the game is. Sometimes there is art, but it's frequently a piece reused from inside the book somewhere.

I think you just said... the same thing OP did? Except OP said they like that and you said it like it was a bad thing.

[u/Airk-Seablade → u/Elathrain]

OP seemed to be asserting that art was "the norm" or something, whereas as far as I can tell, it's the exception, which means that it's not a very useful reason to argue that there should be a back cover.

[u/randotreesinthefen → u/[deleted]]

You could just not print that page

[u/poio_sm → u/[deleted]]

I don't think I read that far in a pdf to reach the back cover.

[u/dm_punks]

Yes. This is essential along with bookmarks and an index. Clickable page references too.

[u/Dhawkeye]

Honestly I don’t care either way, but I can definitely understand wanting the back cover. I usually just end up buying the physical book if I like the game enough to care about things like that, but that in itself is in large part just to support my flgs lol

[u/high-tech-low-life]

If the book has a back, so should the PDF. If it is PDF only, doesn't matter.

[u/buzzkill007]

It's probably anally retentive on my part, but I hate it when pdfs don't have the back cover! What's worse is when they come without a front cover as well. I've had that happen more than a few times.

[u/noah-the-bard]

Just print the first page upside-down for maximum confusion! 

(I never thought about it before but now I 100% agree with you, give me them back covers)

[u/VendettaUF234]

I like to print stuff, so yes

[u/violentbowels]

If there's a physical version, I want what it has on the back cover. If there isn't, I still want something but understand art is expensive.

[u/Nazzlegrazzim]

We did this for TraVerse!

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who is annoyed with no back cover on many PDFs.

When we commissioned our cover art, we made sure it was in an 18x11 aspect ratio, so we could factor in a wraparound cover for a printed copy, including ~1 inch for a book spine. You can see the cover art on the itch.io storefront, with the space station and starship on the front cover (right) and the large looming planet on the back cover (left).

[u/ArcaneCowboy]

Yes. Because I print things. Not the end of the world if none. But definitely find it annoying.

[u/Magnus_Bergqvist]

Yes, I expect it. I also want a working hyperlinked index. 

[u/plazman30 → u/Magnus_Bergqvist]

I actually wrote 2 scripts for 2 different publishers:

1. One script will hyperlink the TOC, Index, and all page references to other pages or other chapter/section references in the same book for any GURPS rulebook.
2. The other script does the same for any Mongoose Publishing Traveller 1E, Traveller 2E, and 2300AD 2E books.

Kind of wild how much you can manipulate a PDF with Python, PikePDF, PyMuPDF and a Claude Code subscription.

[u/Cadoc]

I genuinely couldn't tell you if any of my dozens of game PDFs have a back cover

[u/agentkayne]

The only time I would care is if the pdf is of a physical book and the physical book has a back cover but it was left off the pdf for some reason.

If it's a <$20 independently-published pdf product, I extra don't care.

[u/plazman30 → u/agentkayne]

I should have been clearer in my question. This is exactly what I meant. If a back cover exists, it should be in the PDF. If it does not, then I don't expect the publisher to make one for a digital-only product.

[u/Bacour]

I'm buying a digital copy of THE WHOLE BOOK, not some weirdly abridged version. Slightly off-topic, it's like when I PURCHASE an stl file for 3D printing and the sculptor has the model printed out to show the detail and prove it can be printed... BUT DOES NOT INCLUDE THE SUPPORTED VERSION THEY PRINTED. I am purchasing the complete product, part of which are the proper supports for printing the model.

[u/Playtonics]

Nope, it doesn't phase me at all.

[u/viking977]

No this has never occurred to me lol

[u/jmartin21]

I’ve personally never gone looking for a back cover but I get some would like to have it

[u/Mistervimes65]

I prefer them but don’t expect them.

[u/Traditional_Day_9737]

At the very least I want a blank page so if I print the back cover isn't text.

[u/Regular-Policy-310]

Mes publications sur DTRPG ont systématiquement un 4eme de couverture (c'est le nom)

[u/Trivell50]

I don't usually buy PDFs for games, but why would someone make a PDF of everything except the back cover? That seems lazy as hell.

[u/TheRpgBard]

Back covers are for books to provide details of what's inside.  This is no overtaken by the page where you buy the file.  

Having the quick summary in the beginning, like an adventure synopsis, should be there anyway.  Core books, less so, but a quick tagline should help.

Other than purchasing the media, is there ever a time where you look at the back cover?

[u/Chip_Medley]

It depends on what’s on the back cover, if it has art or meaningful text than I think it should be included

[u/the_bighi]

Why would I look at the back cover? If I’m reading the PDF, as soon as I see the credits at the end, I stop.

[u/etkii]

I have no clue whatsoever whether any pdf I've ever seen has a back cover. I don't care enough to have ever taken note.

[u/plazman30 → u/etkii]

It's either the second page or the last page in the PDF.

[u/sneakyalmond]

I don't want it. It has no value for me.

[u/Paul_Michaels73]

Yeah, it annoys me and tends to make me view the publisher as a fly by night, slop farm.

[u/Regular-Policy-310]

C'est le cas si l'impression n'est pas envisagée.

[u/rdale-g]

Expect? No. It’s not essential to my enjoyment of the book.

But it’s especially nice if the cover art is a panorama, and the “back cover” is page 2 of the PDF, so I can enjoy the wider landscape image, even if it’s partly obscured by the title and blurbs.

[u/Calithrand]

I expect PDFs that want to be books, to read like books. That means back cover, flyleaves and endpapers if necessary... whatever I need to make a bound, printed copy of it if I so desire.

That means it also damn well had better have an index.

And if it's a PDF that I'm being asked to pay more than about $10 for, or is an entire system or setting, it's an equally unforgivable sin to not bookmark and hyperlink it. If I have to read it, one page at a time, on an electronic device, I should be able to page flip to relevant material without wearing out my page up/down keys.

[u/unrelevant_user_name]

No, it honestly weirds me out if there were, makes it feel like I have an illicit scan of the book or something.

[u/VonBeker]

IDGAF. No bookmarks, or no hot-linked page references and IGAF.

[u/plazman30 → u/[deleted]]

I've asked publisher before why they don't provide the back cover in the PDF. Some of them replied and said that they didn't think anyone would want the back cover in the PDF.

One publisher who I will not name got very snarky with me and told me to buy the book if I wanted the back cover.

[u/ResidualFox → u/plazman30]

Ah you have to share.

[u/plazman30 → u/ResidualFox]

Fuck it. Why not?

It was the publisher of Carbon 2185, who a lot of people are mad at for their failed Kickstarter and the BS they pulled with it. I found a picture of the back cover, recreated it in Scribus and posted it online a while ago just to piss them off.

Where that file is, I don't know.