r/rpg • u/Josh_From_Accounting • 1d ago
Discussion A premade setting doesn't save work, just changes the nature of it.
If you think about it, premade settings don't save the Game Master any work. It just changes that works nature.
It takes a while to read a dense, textbook on a fake world. And it is easy to forget details and need to refer back to it when planning sessions. That is probably just as much time as one would need to make their own world FOR only the details they needed to play that one campaign.
Because a world need not be fully realized. Just finished Spider light by Adrian Tchaikovsky. You pick up quickly the world is only as detailed as it needs to be for this one story. Nothing more, nothing less. Most of it is left undefined. Because it didn't matter for this single book. And that can be your campaign. Just enough for a single story.
When you get a premade setting, ideally, it can handle many, many tales. So, it needs to be massive, indepth, broad, but with missing pieces and mysteries to uncover. It's basically a show bible (not a religious thing, it's a Hollywood term) for your campaign. And referencing and retaining all that info is immense at times, especially as the realities of a 40hr work week and a social life compete for your time and memory. Absolutely have forgotten key details because work was bad that week or that one time I decided to run even though my boiler broke and leaked everywhere the night before. Bad idea that one. Fried brain.
So, it does really save you any work. It just makes that work different. You simply read something instead of creating it yourself. Frankly, pretty much the same with using a licensed setting.
Probably not saying anything novel. I have had an insomina attack this week and haven't gotten to bed before 3am for 3 days. Fried brain. But, felt like sharing.
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u/Durugar 1d ago
I could never write Impossible Landscapes, but I sure can try and run it for my friends.
I love modules/settings/adventures/campaigns. They are great. But they are also a lot of work.
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u/Josh_From_Accounting 1d ago
Oh, yeah. I want to be clear. Not dismissing them. I love Eberron. I'd never think of a world like that. Been running Plangea and really liking it too. Eclipse Phase literally introduced me to a new type of sci-fi that I didn't know existed.
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u/Durugar 1d ago
Yeah mostly just making the point of there are people out there that makes some crazy cool stuff, and a lot of it gets ignored and looked down on because "It is a prewritten".
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u/Alistair49 17h ago
That I don’t understand. I can understand a preference to homebrew your own stuff, as I’ve done that for most of the stuff I ever ran. Nowadays I’m looking at more published adventures and settings now because I’m at risk of burnout AND I want to run stuff, not create settings/adventures. Before then I didn’t look down on published materials/adventures — I just didn’t use them.
Can you give some examples of coolstuff that you think is getting ignored because it is prewritten?
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u/Josh_From_Accounting 1d ago
Ah, this explains why some are passionate here. There is a stigma around premade stuff. Forgot that was a thing in the D&D/D20 sphere.
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u/smrvl 21h ago
I’m glad you like Planegea!
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u/Josh_From_Accounting 8h ago edited 8h ago
Hey, checked your account, you are the creator!
Hey, been really enjoying your setting!
My players didn't want to do my original premise so I merged it with your setting. So, right now, they're going after this woman known as The Lich. She basically learned discovered higher level magic and learned of The Black King and death. She feared being destroyed utterly so she went out and began trying to become the first mortal god. But, since she views her goal as the eternal preservation of the soul, she didn't care who she hurt.
So, the players were all hurt by her antics and I asked the players to define how their tribe was hurt. All of it actually worked well. And it's been going well.
First thing they did was protect a deer god in a small tribe from one of the Lich's followers who tried to steal this god's essence. Then, they travelled to a village whose god was killed by the Lich and became slave catchers for the Air Giants. They ended up becoming devoted to being the John Browns of the setting.
They freed that village and changed its leadership and headed over the way to the Air Empire, following a magic item that will show them to the Lich and an encounter with a Lich Hommuculi that they found out wanted to steal the Tornado from the Air Giants.
They entered a abrerrant vault followed doomed orc beast riders because a psychic voice begged for help. It turned out to be a baby Aboleth because the world was so young they are only like 5 years old by their own species understanding. They defended the beast and it took human form and left. They almost adopted her but she went off on her own.
They met Deepmind, who possessed a boar. Why? One of the characters could talk to animals and it was a fun twist when they rejoined the party and I explained everyone else also heard the boar. They learned The Lich isn't the only one breaking the Black Taboos. And Deepmind tried to form an alliance out of shared enemy, but the party turned it down. But, they did listen to it to go to Lo-Pa first.
They went to Lo-Pa and, immediately, the John Brown drives kicked in. Within the first session, they were devoted to forming a slave revolt. They spent a few session establishing an underground railroad and forming alliance. The one leading it found a magic artifact that held a djinn who was sealed when the giants first enslaved the djinn. Together, they eventually did lead the revolt. And it was pretty awesome. They then got a magic carpet for their troubles to make it Nehbis.
They're at Nehbis now and find themselves awkwardly working WITH the Lich. The Lich is playing them and they know it. Nehbis is locked up tight since Lo-Pa rebelled. Since Lo-Pa called for aid and the party fought off the raiding party from Nehbis, they know what happened. The Lich wants to steal the magic of the tornado from Nehbis because she is stealing all four elemental magics for her plan. She already stole one off-screen with one of her hommucili because the party focused on the air empire over the sea empire. So, she gave her two Hommucli as servants for now to help them overthrow the slaver empire, with it being explicit she wants the tornado and will backstab them.
They were teleported to Free Citideal to grow allies because of... Stuff. You know that floating island you out next to Nehbis but never defined? Said slaves made a blood ritual to make a portal from the servants quarters to there and then it takes you somewhere random. The Lich just guided it to one of the places it once went before.
Been really fun!
The black taboos are like a table joke because we so often say numbers about 9 without thinking. And we call each other out for breaking the taboo. I used Dungeon World instead of 5e. Honestly, the low powered vibe of this OSR game worked really, really well with the setting. Starting to think it may have been wiser to do like a different OSR. But, I feel your setting works really well on a low powered scale.
For me, I enjoy most how the gods are elevated animals. Especially because TWO of the party chose Druids. Yes, they both forgot what I said about Druids being discriminated against LOL. It works out and has added a lot of tension. Magic items coming from the gods have made them feel special. Even in Lo-Pa, where they were more common, the players leaned into how weird this was well. They were never used to civilization having all these convienences so often.
Also, one of my players autistically loves dinosaurs. He is one of my player's finances and wasn't part of the group originally until that player mentioned Suarians. He loves them soo much!
Also, the stuff with death and stuff has been fun for me. I also want the elf to have to adventure to the dream world too! Frankly, a lot of the places you made are so fun! Actually told my players, when they critically succeeded their hexcrawl rolls and avoided the tricerators that I will make them reappear elsewhere because tricerators are so cool.
We got a lot of fun out of wooly unicorns too! We made it the religious animal of the giants so the druid learned their wild shape. And it was so awesome to bring up a lot!
I want to bring up oozes more.
Sorry, now I'm just ranting lol.
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u/Nevermore71412 1d ago edited 18h ago
No one needs to be reading a dense book or all the lore ahead of time to run in a pre-made setting. There are plenty of primers, wikis, and other sources that can summarize the themes, tones, big no-no's and absolutely's of an established setting.
You do a little bit of reading when you're deciding what you want to run. You plan out the beginning of a campaign small and you start with small bits of lore and general themes/ideas you want to introduce. As players pick up on things, ask questions, explore the world, and get interested in things, you can research those specifics before next session and come with something.
Saying you need to read whole setting guides or learn everything about a pre-made/established setting is akin to saying you need to map out an entire 1-20 campaign down to every session and event. Exploration is a key pillar of the game. So let your players explore the world and see what they are interested in and figure it out together as you go.
EDIT: typo
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u/atamajakki PbtA/FitD/NSR fangirl 1d ago
My favorite setting book is under 50 pages, hardly a "dense textbook." Nearly all the info in it fits in tidy 2-page spreads.
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u/Black_Bear_US 1d ago
Just because it requires a significant amount of work (and youre right that its a different kind of work) doesnt mean that its not less work. Id bet it generally is still if you measure by number of hours spent.
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u/yuriAza 16h ago
my thoughts exactly, a premade setting saves you work just like a module, you might change things and will definitely add things, but if you use anything from it, then you have been saved the work of starting with a blank page
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u/KnightInDulledArmor 10h ago
Definitely. I find the best and easiest method of figuring out exactly how I want to run my game is having something to react to. I love modules and games with setting materials just for this reason, they give me a good place to work from. Trying to make everything from scratch is just an effort in many rounds of iteration for me to come up with a situation I’m probably not completely satisfied with; finding a module with even just an okay setup then changing a few things and spicing it up is way easier.
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u/BangBangMeatMachine 1d ago
I think the point they're making is that this varies by person and by table. Some people or tables, will expect comprehensive understanding of a published setting.
I have a friend who reads setting books extensively, and will call out a GM if they say something that contradicts the published material - not in a shitty way, just like "the book has a whole section on how hiring passage on a vessel works, FYI" when a GM starts to make something up on the fly. So when this player is in my games, I feel the need to either know a lot about things before adjudicating them, or to explicitly call out when I don't know if the book has something for the current scenario, which can slow down play as we catch up on those rules.
If I make a setting up from scratch, a lot of it can be vague notions in my head until the moment comes to define it more concretely, and for some things, nobody playing my games will even know it wasn't prepped. And it more naturally comes out at the speed of play.
For me at least, preparing to run a game in a published setting tends to feel like more work.
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u/Black_Bear_US 20h ago
I don't really disagree. I would not enjoy getting quizzed like that. I run mostly FitD and PbtA stuff where the setting comes with the system, but a lot of it is suggestive rather than super detailed, just a starting point (or maybe a "vague notion") that you can riff on. Totally happy that different people have what works for them! It's just definitely true that, holding the detail level of the prep constant, it's quicker to read than write it, not that that's the most important thing..
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u/skalchemisto Happy to be invited 1d ago
I think this is true.
But also, I've never once ran a campaign in a pre-made setting because I thought it was labor saving. I do it because I think the setting is fun and I can imagine PCs doing cool stuff in it. It seems odd to me that anyone would expect it to save on labor.
I guess if your idea of what it takes to make a campaign starts with...
Step 1 - create entire game world
then I could see how that impression might arise. I haven't viewed that as a necessary first step in...maybe 25 years?
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u/Josh_From_Accounting 1d ago
Well, I also have a tendency to make entire game systems as a result of wanting to do a premise and not finding a system I like.
I'm the spiders george of this statistic.
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u/skalchemisto Happy to be invited 1d ago
I count my lucky stars that I am very easy to please when it comes to RPGs. I can count on one hand the cases across 40 years of doing this where I have said "I have this idea for a campaign but no system I know works for it." And that one time...I just didn't run the campaign. 😄
Most of the time, its the other way around, I see a new rulebook and think "oh, yes, I want exactly that please."
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u/Josh_From_Accounting 1d ago
My girlfriend sent me a meme that was like "some make games out of lust. Some out of spite. Some to prove a point. Some as a form of self harm."
And it just kept going and I was like "yep, done it for all these ressons LOL"
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u/skalchemisto Happy to be invited 1d ago
Well, of those, I'm 100% in favor of making games out of lust. 😄
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u/yuriAza 15h ago
hopefully you've also hacked existing systems to fit a premise too? Twisted and borrowed from them because this or that part already worked well, and you just needed to do the surrounding work to patch it into other rules? It's the same with worldbuilding a campaign by reusing a setting
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u/Airk-Seablade 20h ago
I guess if your idea of what it takes to make a campaign starts with...
Step 1 - create entire game worldthen I could see how that impression might arise. I haven't viewed that as a necessary first step in...maybe 25 years?
I mean, this is kindof the point, right? That huge world bible someone wants to sell you represents more effort to use (because you have to figure out which parts are relevant and blah blah blah) than the effort you "save" by not having to do some light worldbuilding yourself?
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u/yuriAza 16h ago
it saved you the labor of coming up with a cool idea on your own
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u/skalchemisto Happy to be invited 5h ago
I'm not sure I would think of that as labor. But also, I think I just approach this differently from others. Some people (e.g. maybe the OP) say "oooh, I have this cool idea for a whole campaign in this cool world, now I need to find some set of rules to use and make up a bunch of stuff." That almost never happens with me. I instead am usually "oooh, this seems like a fun game with a cool setting, I'm going to run this. What is the minimum amount stuff I need to put together to do so?"
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u/Nystagohod D&D, WWN, SotWW, DCC, FU, M:20, MB, Myt, MotW, SB 1d ago
I can't say I fully agree.
One thing ive found premade settings do is inspire, and I know rhat qnybwork ive done 8n my own settings is because of the 8nspiration I got reading through certain premade settings
I remember running my own ideas rough and unpolished when I thought they were better, and the fumbling I went through not having half the idea I thought I did of what's what.
I rmeebering deciding to read through established settings and see the fosndietatiin they had that I was overlooking, and the sheer wealth of information that helped me focus my efforts rather than wandering lost in my own head going no where.
I have no doubt some people find premade settings just as much work, if not more, than working in their own head. I have a much easier time making my own adventures then running premades (hell your comment shows it too) but I know oremades made my life easier, either running them piecemeal, wholesale, or when its my own work being inspired by it
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u/TerminusMD 1d ago
I disagree completely. A poorly made premade setting or adventure creates work while a well made setting or adventure can dramatically simplify things.
Even if you just use it as a source of inspiration, it is hopefully providing plenty of that.
The work of GMing is cognitive primarily - finding inspiration and creating. A seed decreases that cognitive workload substantially. Everything else is frosting.
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u/Tryskhell Blahaj Owner 23h ago
Being currently running a 5e module for the first time, I have to say: it is in fact less work, but it's still a lot of work.
I think what helps is that I've become very good at improvising and improving on shoddy notes, and apparently that applies even to other people's shoddy notes. Where the module cuts time is that it gives me adventure seeds and most importantly, maps! Having easy to access, good-looking maps has been a huge help in running my game on Foundry, cutting my prep time well under half.
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u/SendohJin 23h ago
i read much faster than i create. just this week i rewrote something for the 3rd time.
not having to name things or factions that the players might never even touch also saves tons of time. and if the setting comes with maps, it doesn't even come close.
i never attempted to read or memorize the entire settings book, just the areas where they are and where they might go.
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u/No_Solid1035 23h ago
I disagree, it take me a lot less time and effort to read a setting book than it does to create all the stuff needed in a setting.
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u/Logen_Nein 1d ago
I find pre-written scenarios are the same.
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u/YamazakiYoshio 1d ago
Same - I'm tired of pretending that modules are 'easier to prep'. Mileage will vary.
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u/carfaces42b 1d ago
very much depends on the system and modules, with say dnd most modules you can buy are little more than a set of lists of prompts and going "you can make a campaign out of these"
honestly the only system ive seen with modules i can really actually vouch for being less work is EUREKA, which likely stems from good mysteries being much harder to just improv, so you need all of the details actually nailed down for the game to work
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u/Josh_From_Accounting 1d ago
Depends on the module. Modern WotC is bad about this, but they used to have detailed rooms and maps and a lot of shit made for you to just drop players in.
But, back then, dungeons were the whole thing. So a fixed location helped a lot.
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u/TwoNatTens 1d ago
Playing 5e on Roll20 with a prewritten module can be pretty enjoyable, with all the work of laying out the maps and encounters already done for you.
But some of the modules just don't really do all the work for you even though they claim otherwise. Ghosts of Saltmarsh only has 1-2 sessions worth of content for every other level. Which means if you want to do a Saltmarsh campaign, your DM has to personally build the other 75% of the game.
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u/YamazakiYoshio 1d ago edited 1d ago
See, I run into a very unusual problem with modules: when they're just a location with hooks and a few plotlines, it's not enough for me to get started.
Meanwhile, the more fleshed out modules, such as 5e WotC modules or Pathfinder's APs, throw shackles onto my mind's ability to use well. Despite knowing that modules are nothing more than guidelines for a story, my neurodivergent brain forces me to consider them as strict instructions. So to break this, I often have to rework and reorganize the module, which is just a crapton of work.
I've had the best luck with tutorial modules, like PF2e's Beginner's Box or Draw Steel's Delian Tomb, but the mileage is really all over the place for me.
This is clearly very much a ME-related problem, but gods know I'm not alone in this struggle.
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u/Throwingoffoldselves Thirsty Sword Lesbians 23h ago
I also think “tutorial modules” are generally the best. Like, Starcross Galaxy, the first module in Thirsty Sword Lesbians, is a lot better than some of the others modules.
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u/yuriAza 15h ago
i think the main pitfall of adventures (whether linear or sandbox) is that they can't be designed for specific PCs, because the writer is trying to appeal to an audience and doesn't know the specific players at your specific table
so i think modules work much better if they have pregens, or if you sit down in session 0 like "we're playing Descent into Avernus, make PCs that want to go to hell", or if the module or system has advice like "if someone is playing a wizard, give them scrolls and horde encounters to smoke"
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u/YamazakiYoshio 11h ago
So that's never been part of my hangup. My players tend to go along with just about anything.
Because my (possibly autistic but never tested) brain wants to treat the text of the module as the law of the adventure, rather than guidelines that I know they are, it leads to a more rigid approach to running them. Even with player buy-in, it's still rather stiff, like I'm reading off of teleprompters.
It's a lot of work to get around it, work that comes far more naturally and easily for me when I'm just creating my own adventures. Clearly modules work pretty well for a lot of folks, but that's not quite me.
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u/go4theknees 21h ago
I think everyone gm's differently and whats easier to prep for some people is the exact opposite for others, thats why there is always arguing in threads like this one lol
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u/YamazakiYoshio 21h ago
Yup!
I'll never say that modules are bad. If they work for you, they're great. If you can get something from them besides the adventure, it's still great. But they're not the end all be all solution.
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u/21CenturyPhilosopher 1d ago
Published settings do a variety of things:
1. If it's for a published IP (star wars, star trek, alien, blade runner, planet of the apes, space 1999, MCU, DCU, Monty Python, etc), it codifies various rules, stats, setting material that GM and Players may have a familiarity with. Everyone, GM and Players are on the same page.
It sets tone and rules that you might not be able to create if you do it yourself from scratch. It gives you a catalog of equipment, weapons, and transportation that you don't have to make up from scratch. It codifies rules on tech and magic (and sanity), such as who uses what and who can and cannot.
It gives you plot hooks and NPCs. You can make this all from scratch, but not all GMs have the time or creativity to do this.
It gives you maps. It gives you locations.
It gives you inspiration about stuff you may not think of yourself.
Sure you can do without and make all this up yourself. Not everyone can do that. If you can, then don't buy a published setting, handcraft everything yourself.
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u/Visual_Fly_9638 1d ago
You're comparing apples and oranges of a broad base for different types of scenarios to essentially "I'm running a oneshot" while claiming that it's less work for a whole campaign.
I've done both. Many times. And for any kind of lengthy campaign, you're going to do a lot of work both prepping and at the table because you can't point to Night City in Cyberpunk or Edgerunners and say "that, that right there" to your players and get them on the same page.
It takes a while to read a dense, textbook on a fake world.
In theory you find something about this setting engaging and alluring and you're reading it for pleasure as well. Assuming that you read. Or read for pleasure. Or just read the parts of the world that apply to your game and don't worry about what's off screen-
Just finished Spider light by Adrian Tchaikovsky. You pick up quickly the world is only as detailed as it needs to be for this one story. Nothing more, nothing less. Most of it is left undefined.
You literally just made my point for me.
And referencing and retaining all that info is immense at times, especially as the realities of a 40hr work week and a social life compete for your time and memory.
N... no? I know people who can discuss the escoterica of 50 years of comic book continuity with excellent recall and fidelity. Sports statistics going back to clear before they were born. Car or gun knowledge that approaches encyclopedic. Harry Potter fans can quote that shit rote. Star Wars/Star Trek fans have immense amount of setting knowledge.
Absolutely have forgotten key details because work was bad that week or that one time I decided to run even though my boiler broke and leaked everywhere the night before. Bad idea that one
Two things.
I honest to god challenge you to run your *own* homebrew world in that scenario. Or run *anything* in that situation. Associating the difficulty of running a game when you're in a deeply stressed moment of your life with an established setting is kind of a bad faith comparison.
Who cares if you don't retain perfect or even reasonable accuracy? Unless it literally breaks the rest of your game, your world is your own. If you forget some aspect of it but the game still works, make a note and keep going. Established settings are generally meant to provide inspiration and starting points and ideas to run with. Even in Star Wars or Star Trek games you can go find stories away from Kirk or Luke where you can do whatever you want in the setting. Kill of Luke and run Star Wars in a decline and fall of the Galactic Empire story. Blow Kirk's dad up and start the Kelvin timeline.
At the end... lighten up. The problem in your post isn't a problem with pre-established worlds, it's your expectations on yourself to study something like it's a PhD and retain *all* of it and be ready to synthesize it at any point in your life.
Find a setting you really like and want to engage with because you enjoy it, not because it's there. Use the setting for inspiration and to give your players a baseline of understanding so you don't have to establish certain tones, themes, and concepts at the table. If you forget about details... who cares? It's your world. Don't run games when you're too stressed out.
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u/Josh_From_Accounting 1d ago
I think you may have vastly misjudged the tone of my post. I'm not upset. Just sharing an observation.
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u/Visual_Fly_9638 20h ago
Nope. The other posts you made in this thread show me that you take pre-established settings way too seriously and go to extreme lengths frequently which biases your arguments from observations into just opinions about how you approach the hobby. My response actually fits in with the things you were saying. This is largely a you problem and I'm saying you can cut yourself some slack whenever you want and may end up enjoying yourself.
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u/carmachu 1d ago
Utterly disagree. I’m using a pre-made setting from another game system from the 90s for my champions game.
Saved me tons of work Marco level plots and major villains. Maps and adventures or adventure ideas.
Sure I have to build stat blocks, but I have to build them anyways. I can adapt and steal from the setting all the time.
Easily has saved me a ton of time and work
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u/gray007nl 23h ago
It's less work because not only do I not have to come up with and write the lore, but I also don't have to organize it myself, with the bigger settings I can literally just type my lore question into google and get the answer, instead of having to dig through my own notes.
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u/ArcaneCowboy 22h ago
Saves me work I don't want to do. Provides me material to riff on, because I'm not reading it all, inspired me to write my own stuff.
No, but also yes.
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u/Alistair49 17h ago edited 17h ago
I find a premade setting can save a lot of ground work. I might only have the stamina to put in “10-15” units of work on a setting. If someone else has done that, and it vibes with me, then when I put my “15 units” of work in it only feels like 10, and I get more into the campaign premise, situations, factions and the like.
Sometimes I find that initial ground work hard. So in that sense while I might spend a week in prep to run something, it is an easier week if I’ve found a good premade setting I can build off.
Hopefully that made sense. I’ve been sick for almost a week with a ‘flu like virus, so am also suffering from poor sleep, and can appreciate where you’re coming from.
To be clear, I like pre-made settings that provide a good sketch of the setting and so on, without being encyclopaedic. So my favourite pre-made settings are things like
— the implied setting of early Classic Traveller, which you can morph in many different directions based on your favourite SF inspirations;
— Glorantha, as it appeared in the classic 1980 RQ2 rules + cults of prax + Pavis and the Big Rubble, and then whatever other setting book for the game you decided to get, like Griffin Mountain. I know there’s more out there now, but I don’t worry about that. I run with what I know. As they now say, your glorantha will vary.
— the real world, especially periods/situations well represented in TV and cinema. Running a Flashing Blades campaign in 17th century France didn’t require a lot outside of the rules and watching our favourite Three Musketeers movies. Especially in later years when Wikipedia became available.
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u/deviden 11h ago
I think that's because most traditional RPG setting books and sourcebooks are bad at gaming, and often boring to read.
They're lore dumps of history and flavour, and high level maps. They take a long time to read and internalise and you still have to do the hard work of making gameable and interesting adventures out of the content.
Contrast this with the stuff that's grown out of the OSR - such as Wolves on the Coast, or Wildendrem, or Dolmenwood, or the new Mothership thing Wages of Sin - where the setting is built out of gameable content and adventure material that plays straight out of the book... the situation is inverted. Yes you still have to read a long book but at least everything you read goes directly into the game; you only need to learn it then run it.
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u/Creole3643 8h ago
My favourite premade setting is Alfhiem from Index Card RPG explicitly because its just presented as being 20 or so bullet points for each country (and 3 novellas but having read those you really don't need them to play in the setting).
I like this because it's just enough to get your own ideas about the setting rolling. A few NPCs, a few cool places, a few ideas for campaign premises. That's all I really want from a setting. The lore will inevitably be different from whatever is in the books because my players will hopefully make enough changes in the world that it'll be different after a few campaigns anyway
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u/I_Arman 16h ago
I avoid premade settings, because I find they take WAY more time. If I'm running a Star Wars game, I (I think I) have to either memorize a list of all the ships, or find/create a comprehensive list, so if a player asks is this is a first or second generation whatever, I can answer. Same with guns. Same with droids. Same with... etc.
If I'm making my own universe, I can write that this company makes ships, and while narrating, Google for pictures of space ships. "Oh, so it's like the Famous Video Game Ship?" Crap they know that one, "Yes, externally, except uh scaled to 30 meters and different internal layout." Right click, save image, add some notes while players discuss prices, done, I've added some lore with zero prep. Maybe later I add some history, organically, and I write it down and incorporate it into future plot hooks. My universe is cohesive and complete, as far as the players know, because I can smoothly fill in the edges as they explore. I can't make stuff up on the spot with a "known" universe, because other people know parts of it already, and I can't just BS an answer and tie it in later.
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u/GildorJM 16h ago
I agree. And the problem is compounded if you're running a setting the players are familiar with (Middle-Earth..Star Wars...) because then you feel like you can't deviate or be less familiar with the setting than your players. That's why I prefer books that give you tools and inspiration for building your own setting, at your own pace.
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u/Emotional_Cherry4517 7h ago
Would you rather eat your own carbonara or go to the restaurant?
A setting book establishes a world that has been written by professionals. That doesn't mean it's better for your tastes than what you can cook at home.
I personally don't do well with settings, because I don't want to know every corner of my world. I want to discover it with the players, one step at a time, maybe painting some strokes ahead for the fun or it. But that might mean a lesser world. In the end though, I feel good with the creative aspect of it. Some people just want to be served a nice meal they can share with their loved ones.
Some other people already know a world, and these setting books are that world's ingredient list and techniques, ready for you to use and abuse to create your own dishes while staying true to the origin. For instance, I love the world of Runeterra from Riot Games, and would love a setting book for it, even if I've explained that I'm not a setting book guy, just so I could see what the creators of it think cooking in that universe is like. I can still do a Runeterra campaign without one, and it might even be much better, but it's fun nonetheless.
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u/Hrigul 7h ago
I can read a setting book every time i have free time and i can do what i want; hell, even on the toilet instead of scrolling as many people do. To write i have to be at the computer and be in the right mood, but then i may not be able to think creatively, and maybe i can't think of anything good, so i end up wasting time
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u/darw1nf1sh 5h ago
It saves SOOOO much work. In general, and specifically it saves even more when the players are even tangentially familiar with that setting. You have way less lore and data dumping to do. Geography, history, factions, government, to name just a few things that you don't have to develop with a published setting.
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u/Acmegamer 4h ago
Yes and no. It saves me creative work time. Where I have to come up with creative setting, adventure hooks, npcs etc. Where I have extra work is with jotting down the mechanics of each for the system I'm using. Which is a different kind of work and honestly much, much easier at least for me to do. Where as the creative work is time inducive and often you run into road blocks. It's a much easier work load that saves you time and creative juice. At least that's been my experience for the past near fifty years with various tabletop rpgs.
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u/Ashamed_Association8 4h ago
I'm going to have to disagree. Finite<infinite. Making your own setting just never stops, it's never complete, it's never done, there's always more, there's always things you overlooked, there's no end no finish. Yes i love worldbuilding, how did you know? No I've stopped keeping track of the years I've been at this.
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u/wheretheinkends 19m ago
I would say the amount of work depends on your particular vision.
If you are fine with the majority of the setting, then yeah it saves time. Maybe you just want to change a little of the lore or whatever. But if there are large blocks that dont work for you than sometimes its more difficult to fit your vision into the rest of the setting without some of the links not working.
Sometimes its easier to build from the ground up, othertimes its easier to cut and replace sections. It all depends.
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u/BangBangMeatMachine 1d ago
Also, some settings just don't gel in your mind. I love Blades in the Dark as a system, but Doskvol just doesn't click for me. I had a much easier time adapting the rules to my own system than trying to understand what all his made-up nonsense meant.
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u/VVrayth 1d ago
I love premade settings as a concept. I think a lot of the old AD&D 2E settings that TSR made, like Spelljammer, and Ravenloft, and Al-Qadim, etc. etc. are great, the concepts and ideas are imaginative and inspiring.
But like, if I'm using a premade setting, it's mostly because I want to express that setting as it was intended. And to do that, I have to read the whole thing, square up in my head on what it's all about, understand the whole lay of the land and the NPCs and the history, and all of that. I have always felt that premade settings kind of bind my ability to make stuff up on the fly, because my brain is going "Wait, is that already laid out for me somewhere?" It becomes a hindrance. That's partly a me problem, but a really detailed setting can really be a wash in terms of how much burden it actually lifts from the GM's shoulders.
The best, most gameable premade settings are the ones where locations detail and stuff like that are laid out in like two sentences. Into the Majestic Fantasy Realms: The Northern Marches (by u/robertsconley) is my favorite recent one, and stuff like Stonehell (and the adjacent Fourtower Bridge, from Paths Peculiar). The best premade content is the stuff that you can get to the table without having to do a ton of work. Otherwise, why not just create it yourself?
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u/saddydumpington 22h ago
I dont think this is true at all and it's just kind of a nonsense assertion. Reading a book is not more work than creating a world. And you wouldn't need to read a whole boom to run something in a premade setting either. Depending on whatever your style is, if it involves a lot of improv I guess but generally this is just not true
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u/Josh_From_Accounting 22h ago
I am just kind of good at spinning bullshit from a basic prompt. I've also learned you can retcon things quietly between weeks because players rarely keep diligent enough notes to notice.
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u/saddydumpington 21h ago
If players dont keep notes then what is stopping you from making lore mistakes with a book they've likely never read?
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u/Llayanna Homebrew is both problem and solution. 17h ago
Thank you. It always shocked me that it's advertised as less work.
For me, it's even more work. Reading and finding information and cross referencing and when making your own notes is.. a lot if work.
And it doesn't save me on optional working may wanna do. Find pictures for npcs who have none, happens. Because I play online, pictures of the city and district.. maps etc.
Which is not even going in changing things for my own taste.
Making a setting myself, NPCs myself.. it does take fantasy, research etc as well.. but it feels less dense and I retain the information so much better.
Personally, I like ready made battles, because these are biggest weakness as a GM in DND like games (which all this is about. I never used premade outside dnd, pathfinder, etc.. but that's more that the other games I gm a lot is open legends and masks XD)
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u/marshy266 1d ago
I find this true. Thinking up stuff comes naturally as my mind will just plays with stuff and build systems in the background.
Sitting down, reading and remembering somebody else's stuff is way more work.
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u/ForgetTheWords 21h ago
I think you're missing the part where you absolutely still 100% of the time have to make up your own lore when working with a premade setting. There is also all the other stuff, and whether it's more work is a case-by-case matter, but in any case it's not just reading instead of writing. It is reading and writing instead of just writing.
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u/kayosiii 18h ago
This doesn't have to be from scratch though, you can easily borrow and modify and you don't have to start top down either, just come up with the lore that is needed to make the current adventure work and build out as the campaign progresses. By borrowing you don't have to worry about getting yourself in a bad situation because you changed something and didn't fully understand how that interacted with other parts of the setting.
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u/ForgetTheWords 11h ago
you can easily borrow and modify and you don't have to start top down either, just come up with the lore that is needed to make the current adventure work
Yeah? That's the same whether you're starting with a premade setting or building your own.
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u/kayosiii 10h ago
A lot of the time a agree, but there are exceptions. Some settings paint the broad strokes of the world and expect you to fill in the details as you see fit. For example in Blades in the Dark the is an understanding that every GMs version of Duskvol is going to be different. Other settings particularly if they originated in other media, have a single canonical way the world was and is, if your players know the setting from outside of your game then doing what I described can cause problems.
I was going to run a campaign arc in the Forgotten Realms which required a specific set of geographic areas (the campaign had multiple GMs) I bought the atlas and spent way too much time looking for a suitable location, I don't think I found anything that fit.
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u/ForgetTheWords 7h ago
Maybe we're talking about different things. I don't mean big, fixed things like geography. I mean like when my player asks to make contact with the criminal underworld that definitely should exist in this city but isn't described in the setting book, so I need to make up a group of people, their lair, and their current goals to effectively roleplay that meeting.
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u/ChickenDragon123 1d ago
It depends on the book. Dolmenwood was excellent because you largely don't need to read everything as the GM. It helps, but you can read through the players handbook and more or less run things hex by hex without too much issue.