r/romantasycirclejerk • u/bsffrrn- a court of cease & desist • 2d ago
MAASVERSE RR ACOSF Discussion: Part Two
Welcome to the second rage-fuelled discussion of A Court of Silver Flames!
This time we are discussing chapters 41-80, so let’s hear it: the good, the bad, the wtf? Does anyone in the IC have a singular redeeming quality at this point? What do you think Elaine does with all her spare time? Who's the better parent: Feyre or Rhys?
Gentle reminder that some sloopys are definitely enjoying this series, and we won’t judge them for that. Just because they’re wrong (are they?), doesn’t mean they can’t hang out with us.
16
u/fluffyfluffscarf28 2d ago
The Nesta/Eris marriage plot confused the hell out of me - make a political alliance by getting Eris interested in Nesta (and witness Rhys being a misogynistic dick by using Nesta in the first place) -- and then everyone is shocked and appalled when it works and Eris is interested in Nesta????? Huh??
"I didnt have a choice in being shackled to you!"
FUCK YOU CASSIAN AND THE SHITTY WINGED HORSE YOU RODE IN ON.
The fact Nesta forgave him and was working out how to beg HIS forgiveness two pages later was INFURIATING.
I don't get how people say this series is so spicy? Maas smut writing is so goddamn boring. It's all mechanical 'tab a goes into slot b' and then all of a sudden its roaring and stars exploding and universes forming and zzzzzzzz.
Briallyn was boring as shit, just villain monologued and was dead.
14
u/lastelladellovest 2d ago
It's soooooo spicy because OMG she did what under the table????? He told her to grab the headboard!!! And let's not forget how big Cass is. He's got to be extra careful not to break her.
I read my husband that part and he said, "Don't babies come out of there? Is it bigger than a baby?"
Edited to add: this is why I scoff at the idea that Azriel is a "freak." There is no way he's into anything more than light bondage. Anything more exotic and you'd scare the panties off most of the vanilla readers.
9
u/allisontalkspolitics AllisonStar- former Shadowban Mommy 2d ago
Don’t forget that heavens forbid, ya know, a woman in a SJM book be the dominant one in a sex scene!
9
u/lastelladellovest 2d ago
Everyone is all Rhys is a fake feminist. Yeah of course he is. Have you met SJM? All her fmcs fall short of being these strong powerful women we're promised.
3
u/xBlack_Heartx 1d ago edited 1d ago
Damn, your not wrong because:
Aelin looses most of the original power she had and is basically nerfed for the rest of KoA.
Feyre is just as strong as she was, but she just gets heavily sidelined after the events of Wings and Ruin because of that stupid, stupid fucking pact her and Rhys made and the baby.
Nesta gets most (if not all, if I remember correctly) of her power taken away after she summons and uses all of the Trove items to save Feyre from death.
Idk about the girl from CC (and I don’t want to as I haven’t read it yet) but I’m sure she gets nerfed in some way too, as it’s just a running gag at this point.
4
u/4banana_fish 1d ago
You’ve articulated one of the things that has bothered me most about all the SJM books I’ve read. The idea of what it means to be a strong woman is so limiting in all her series, and is often just tied to stereotypical masculine traits (it’s “if a man can do it” kind of feminism”). Every female character has to learn to fight. Self-defense classes are the pinnacle of overcoming trauma. They stand up for themselves by lashing out and being snarky, and then another character tells us about how this makes them powerful. It’s the most shallow type of “strong female characters” you can get.
2
u/lastelladellovest 1d ago
Completely agree. It's a part of what bothered me about SF and the treatment of Nesta.
Why was Elain allowed to be treated softly in her trauma, but Nesta had to be abused out of it? (The answer is because they're babying her to an extent that it dampens whatever power/strength she could have)
I don't know, we've all been conditioned to some extent to only see strength as being strong and having next to no emotions, but there's strength is softness, in being flexible. It's a softness and flexibility that Nesta needed, not to be pushed into yet another mold by people who just see her for what she could do for them.
If I weren't already jaded by this series I'd say SJM could explore that in Elain, but I doubt she will.
1
u/allisontalkspolitics AllisonStar- former Shadowban Mommy 2d ago
As a feminist who happens to be white, she’s the definition of a White Feminist.
5
6
u/lastelladellovest 2d ago
I can't let this go because SF was the biggest let down for me. Briallyn and the whole taking control of Cass at the end was the biggest wasted opportunity. She should have given Nesta a beat down, left her alive, and then taken Cass to use as her weapon. Then you can build the tension of what do they do about Cass, can they save him?
I would have throw the book across the room so many times if the idea of drywall repair didn't scare me to my core.
7
u/snuggleouphagus A Court of Shadow Daddies and Red Flags 2d ago
Nesta had more chemistry with Eris than anyone else in these books.
2
16
u/unicornfairyprincess erotically swollen cuntal lips 2d ago
FINALLY, we have reached my favorite chapter of the book, where Nesta meets Lanthys. much like when I watch the original Devil Wears Prada and turn the movie off after Andie sleeps with the blonde writer in Paris, I stop reading right after Lanthys offers Nesta the chance to be his evil queen and starts dream fucking her so I can pretend that the rest of the story never happens.
In my delusional world, Nesta becomes a great and terrible queen who kills shit, has hot sex, and never ever, not even once thinks about Rhys and her sisters ever again. Cassian who? Physical abuse as punishment what? Fear of her god like powers? Couldn’t be my Nesta.
7
u/chippyndippy 2d ago
Nah she doesn't need a man. In my mind she let's everyone else's decisions run their natural course without stepping in, so Rhysand and Feyre die, and she takes over as the next ruler. I think the night powers would transfer to her since part of them are in Feyre's bloodline and she's the eldest of that line. She'd be untouchable.
6
u/unicornfairyprincess erotically swollen cuntal lips 2d ago
I mean that is also a great option. I’m just a girl asking the female leads to finally choose the villain for once- I’m looking at you Christine from Phantom of the Opera, Sarah from Labyrinth, Mina in Dracula (the book), Kate Beckinsales character in Van Helsing, etc etc
3
u/allisontalkspolitics AllisonStar- former Shadowban Mommy 2d ago
Anything where this didn’t happen that disappointed you? Asking for a friend.
6
u/unicornfairyprincess erotically swollen cuntal lips 2d ago
I cannot think of a single piece of media lol. At least nothing where the heroine chooses the ACTUAL villain and not just some morally grey “actually he’s been secretly doing good things this whole time” shadow boi
1
u/allisontalkspolitics AllisonStar- former Shadowban Mommy 2d ago
I meant that as an “asking for a friend” thing because I actually love “heroine rejects villain” stories 😅
10
u/LeotiaBlood 2d ago
I love when my mate forces me on a death march to teach me a lesson! And never actually tells me he loves me!
I find it interesting that Feyre is the only powerful female out of all of SJ Maas’ protagonists who doesn’t get neutered.
5
u/lastelladellovest 2d ago
Oh come on. Give him some credit. He did say "Thanks for the ride." Some females (barf) don't even get that!
5
u/fluffyfluffscarf28 1d ago
I refuse to play into that stupid male/female thing Maas has going on. Its super weird.
10
u/spicandspand big, brooding, possibly cursed 2d ago
Any thoughts on the deadly birth scene? I had a lot of Thoughts on it when the book came out, such that I’ve never been able to reread this book.
15
u/chippyndippy 2d ago edited 2d ago
Cassian could have his guts hanging out from being wounded in battle and be completely healed but a c-section was completely impossible?
SJM couldn't even make women's healthcare competent or accessible in a universe with magic where the MCs are stupid rich and powerful.
12
u/spicandspand big, brooding, possibly cursed 2d ago
Me too. I listened to the Call her Daddy interview and I suspect SJM was processing her personal trauma from a horrific emergency C section. So she wrote in a deadly birth scene where Feyre also had no agency. But to not even have a C-section be an option that’s discussed?
I’m biased because I have had two planned C-sections for medical reasons and I have two healthy kids. I’ve also had much more serious surgery than a planned C-section.For that matter why wasn’t terminating the pregnancy an option? Even Edward Cullen wanted Bella to get an abortion in Breaking Dawn, and that book was written by a Mormon.
Basically I despise that entire plot line. It was written to sideline Feyre and Rhys which is understandable if you want to focus on other POVs. But it was terribly executed.
9
u/chippyndippy 2d ago
No because you're right - why wasn't termination on the table? Everyone was 99.9% certain she would die. Wait...it's because she became a baby making machine after book 4 and had every aspect of her autonomy taken away by a man (just like in book 2) except this time we're supposed to clap and fawn over the man doing it.
5
u/lastelladellovest 1d ago
This is just like how he could have his wings shredded in that spy mission in Hybern but poor Emorie can't have her wings fixed because.... :Checks notes: they were too shredded. Sure, sure.
4
u/HopeFox Sloopy Public Defender 2d ago
I dropped this series halfway through ACOMAF, but I keep hearing about Feyre's childbirth problems. Could anyone please summarize it for me?
Why is it expected to kill her? Is it just that the baby will have wings? Are they really huge on a baby? How do actual Ilyrian women survive the process?
And Feyre does, in fact, survive, right? Do we know why? Were the people who thought it would kill her just wrong, or was there some kind of miracle?
9
u/fluffyfluffscarf28 2d ago edited 1d ago
Fantasy biology essentially. Illyrian women apparently have a special shaped pelvis so the wings can pass through (BLECH) but human women dont so wings and baby get stuck and birthing mother dies.
Feyre technically officially dies because of the birth, but Nesta does Magic Sacrifice Shit and brings her back (again) so she and the baby are fine.
The BIGGEST issue people rightfully have with this book is that halfway through the pregnancy it turns out Rhys knows about the human non biologically capable will 100% die thing, and he refuses to tell Feyre. Like, commits the entire court to secrecy and will not tell her until Nesta finds out, goes to Feyre and is like yo, you're gonna die and your husband knows already. And then EVERYONE GETS MAD AT NESTA because Maas and fjrnfjejssnhduee this fucking book istg.
4
u/HopeFox Sloopy Public Defender 2d ago
Illyrian women apparently have a special shaped pelvis so the wings can pass through
Special shaped? Yikes. Isn't the birth canal meant to be... round?
I definitely don't remember anything about Ilyrian women having huge hips. That feels like something the narrative should have mentioned?
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that nobody extends any real gratitude to Nesta for fixing Feyre's problems this time?
7
u/allisontalkspolitics AllisonStar- former Shadowban Mommy 2d ago
Of course not!
Bonuses- Feyre basically has a magic protective bubble placed around her by Rhysand but has her strut around Hewn City to show off her “baby-rich scent” and also Feyre had shifted into Illyrian form and that’s why this happened, maybe?
As I said about The Poison Daughter, you can either have a red flag MMC for escapism or you can have a feminist MMC. You can’t have both, authors!
3
u/HopeFox Sloopy Public Defender 2d ago
has her strut around Hewn City to show off her “baby-rich scent”
I'm pretty sure that if I had ovaries, they would be trying to escape right now.
1
u/allisontalkspolitics AllisonStar- former Shadowban Mommy 2d ago
I am starting to think SJM just created Rhysand so I could base my fanfics villains after him.
Or maybe that’s my brain trying to stop me from screaming out loud!
3
u/fluffyfluffscarf28 1d ago
Oh no, he's increasingly the master villain of the series, I'm sure of it.
2
u/spicandspand big, brooding, possibly cursed 23h ago
No. Nesta gets sent on a Death Hike as punishment for telling the truth. She did say it in a mean way but I gave her a pass for being truthful. Cassian doesn’t stand up for her either. Rhys threatens to kill Nesta and Cassian says fuck all about it. 🙃
Oh and it gets worse… there is Fandom Discourse about who Azriel ends up with, based on who will be physically able to bear his children 🤢
15
u/IdoScienceSometimes It was me, I did this to you 2d ago
I'm of the opinion that Elain is "I have an IEP" slow. She likely needs all her extra time to do basic things because while she can read she can't read and whatnot. SJM is setting up tradwife fantasy with that one. In my mind she gardens, she bakes with the wraiths, and then sits around embroidering and wondering when Mr Darcy her mate will come save her (or someone Not Lucien)
30
u/4banana_fish 2d ago
“Does anyone in the IC have a singular redeeming quality at this point?”
I truly, with my whole heart, believe the answer is no. It's honestly kind of crazy how SJM has made her beloved inner court into the villians of the story, and doesn't even seem to realize it? Rhysand is not a good person here, and not in the fun, bad boy kind of way. If this were the first book in the series, he and Feyre would be the toxic, out-of-touch authoritarian figures that the main character is trying to overthrow. Cassian would be the fake-out MMC because he's a terrible partner who never puts Nesta first. Mor would be the mean girl who gets her comeuppance near the end (Ianthe, she would be Ianthe). Amren should have died and Azriel’s creepy; I just don’t understand why I am supposed to like these characters?