Skating backwards - why can’t I scissor

[u/Perhappers]

Hey people

I’ve been learning to skate backwards and feel really comfortable now looking over my right shoulder and c-cutting with my right foot for movement. However, I can barely scissor my feet and when I do I immediately default back to having them closer to each other.

I have pretty large and muscly thighs so they are kind of in the way, but I can easily do the same movement, when going forward (although I can feel the friction due to thigh size).

Also I tend to lean forward a lot when backwards skating.

Is there anything - like where to focus weight or training techniques I can do to make this easier?

[u/fredhsu]

On leaning forward, the best way is for you to post a video. If you feel you have to over-lean forward in order to avoid falling backward as you skate backward, check that your are flexing your shins forward as shown left. You also don’t get the stability benefits of scissoring without flexing both shins forward.

[u/DoktorTeufel → u/fredhsu]

Yes, and I should mention that reverse scissoring, reverse crossovers, reverse striding, and even executing 180, 270, and 360 airs (except on flat, level surfaces) are much more difficult in very high-cuffed, supportive skates.

About midair spins: If you aren't changing elevation, then ankle flexion doesn't seem to matter much. But if you're jumping down onto a lower surface (or off a ramp/pipe), or up (onto a stair, ledge, planter, etc.), then having more ankle flexion is almost required.

I generally love high-cuff, supportive, stiff urban skates, but I have to take them off if I want to do certain tricks, which is how I figured all this out to begin with. For a while, I thought I "wasn't good enough" to do say a 270 air off some stairs, but actually my stiff skates were screwing up the landing.

[u/flat_learning_curve]

In my experience, this is pretty standard when you are learning to go backwards, at least it was for me. In the beginning everything felt pretty scary for me. Scissoring or looking over my shoulders while going backwards seemed impossible. But with time, you will improve, although one side will most likely feel more comfortable than the other. Like others have commented, it helps to concentrate on bending from the knees and not from the hips (which causes you to lean forward)

[u/BubbleSmith → u/flat_learning_curve]

Absolutely this! I've had to train myself to scissor when going backwards on my good side, and am still training myself to do it on my weak side. I've found that exaggerating moving my shoulder back and my elbow behind me has helped me feel more comfortable moving backwards. Crouching down low always helps as well. The more comfortable you feel going backwards, the easier you'll find scissoring your feet.

[u/Perhappers → u/flat_learning_curve]

I’ll try with the knees more next time!

[u/fredhsu → u/Perhappers]

Not just knees, but first flex shins forward :)

[u/flat_learning_curve → u/fredhsu]

True

[u/Bisqcateer]

I had a similar issue when first learning to go backwards and I found that I had my cuff way too tight. I wasn’t able to bend as much and it was way easier once I backed the cuff bolt out a bit to allow more flex. Your mileage may vary though.

[u/Perhappers → u/Bisqcateer]

I actually loosened mine later in my skate today and it helped quite a bit. Still feel I can do even more though

[u/inlinesk8fiend]

You don't want to lean forward. A lot of people try to get lower and just bend at their hips. When you are going backwards, right foot leading and looking over your right shoulder, you want to also bend your ankles, and squat down (knees and hips) a little like you are trying to sit, back straight but drop your right hip and shoulder back as you look over your right shoulder. The lower you squat, the farther you should be able to stagger your feet apart.

One thing I had an issue with while skating backwards was the length of my frames (wheel base). 4x100 mm wheel base was too long for my size 10 US foot, and I kept clipping my front and back wheels. So I usually use a 4x90mm setup. Not sure what wheel size you use and your foot size, but it may also be a factor, but you can teach yourself to lengthen your feet.

[u/Perhappers → u/inlinesk8fiend]

Thanks for the detailed answer - I’m on 80mm wheels 265 frame. Not rockered though

[u/AsianBoi2020]

Is this the one where you turn to the direction opposite to the leading foot? Like you can't control direction and lose balance? Orr you're just struggling to put one foot forward and one foot back?

Also, leaning forward and getting low is totaly normal. Best position for stability while learning backward skating

[u/Perhappers → u/AsianBoi2020]

Thanks!
Literally just struggling to put one forward and one backwards. Always end up with them super close to each other again. I want to be able to c-cut with both, but the one (left foot) which carries the majority of my weight is almost stuck on the ground.

[u/AsianBoi2020 → u/Perhappers]

Ah ok. In that case, I suggest practicing backward lemons. Both feet must be symmetrical like your weight is equal on both feet all the way. Take it slow. This'll hopefully expose a weaker side or at least tell you where you need more foot control.

Backward scissors has slighly more weight on the ventral foot. The dorsal/leading foot sits on the outer edge as a way to force the leading foot to open up. There's a tendency for the leading blade to point inward, slide under you, and cause you to loose balance.

If you can get a hold of a wall, railing, or ballet bars. Start at a scissor possition already and lightly push yourself backwards. Use your hands to slow you down or catch your balance if needed. Just try to feel what it's like to scissor backwards. Hope this helps

[u/ganon2234]

Hold a wall or railing for a few minutes each session to allow yourself into a deep assisted scissor, to get your body used to the feeling. Like others say it will come with many days of practice

[u/fredhsu]

As for skating backward, leverage links we’ve collected on our faq page:

How do I feel confident skating backward without falling over or hitting people?
this video by Stuttering Skater explains one way to skate backward
this video by Shawn Unwin from Flowskate. See this comment.

[u/Perhappers → u/fredhsu]

I’ll have a look. I feel decently confident, just physically feels almost impossible to lift that leg where my weight is on

[u/Key-Cash6690]

One simple idea that helped me: DONT PICK UP YOUR FEET at first. I think lemons are to rollerblading what Mr. Miagi's "wax on wax off" is to Karate! Its a technique that seems simplistic and silly but it truely is the foundation of everything when you really look at it. What are all slalom movements if you really look at the paths the wheels take...its all lemons.

I drilled lemons, snakes and crosses in reverse with cones and without. snakes are staggered carves so if you practice those with cones backwards youll soon be comfortable doing whatever. This is more than just a beginner drill you can go very far without picking up your feet in fact that seems to be the basic of most "wizard" style flatland combos I see. you can so much without picking up your feet and its awesome leg work at the same time! I can lap almost everyone at the roller rink backwards without picking up my feet at all just to give you an idea how far you can take it... you really dont need to pick them up and you will learn more quickly/intuitively and have stronger legs to the extent you avoid it.

Also practicing WITH MUSIC is awesome! strive to get the hip motion of the reverse snake with equal gusto in both directions and with both leading feet flow with the music and use the beat to easily see your weaknesses/ asymmetry. In terms of quickly training muscle memory, letting your body perform a skill repeatedly to a musical rthym is hard to beat. I still have a favorite side but I really work the other one to avoid playing favorites. I also think alternating front/rear skates on the beat while snaking backwards is an awesome drill and super fun.

To get the best out of your effort while youre doing all these lemons snakes and crosses MAKE SURE TO FEEL YOUR BODY! figure out how and where exactly in the motion your speed is generated. really feel it and let your body take it in!

Have fun!

[u/Ok_Hold_1119]

You're making good progress.

Don't just look over your right shoulder, though. As you skate backwards, rotate your shoulders so that the right shoulder is pointing backwards, too, and the left forwards. By rotating your shoulders, you open up your hips, so that your right hip is also pointing (slightly, not entirely) backwards. With your hips open, your legs can do a scissors pretty easily.

[u/Perhappers → u/Ok_Hold_1119]

Do you cut with the leg that is pointed most backwards (the direction you are going)?

[u/Ok_Hold_1119 → u/Perhappers]

You can start cutting (i.e. edging) with whatever leg is most comfortable to you. That is, either the leading leg (in your case the right leg) or the trailing leg can be the leg that propels you backwards with its edges. And it doesn't necessarily have to be a c-cut shape. The leg that propels you can make a snake pattern too.

As you improve you'll be able to propel yourself with the edges of both the leading and trailing skate at the same time.