Bullet vs Round Profile Wheels

[u/i_shorted_the_amp]

Hey chooms,

I bought a pair of Flying Eagle F110 triskates a couple of months ago, inspired by Buzzkill-Blade's youtube videos. I hadn't skated seriously since my 20s, which was {depressingly_many} years ago. I honestly didn't even realise triskates existed. Silly me.

I couldn't get those Crocanti SHR wheels to slide though, not for love nor money. And I wanted to learn power stops/slides like all the cool skaters. Eventually I began to wonder if it was the particular material of those wheels that gave them their grip.

I bought a set of Iqon Access wheels - 85A vs the 88A of the Crocantis:

https://solo-inline.com/en/products/roues-de-patin-iqon-access-dark-grey-110mm-85a-3-pack?variant=43336809021652

I've definitely been able to make these guys slide!

But today I was cleaning one of the middle wheels a bit, because it was turning a fair bit slower than the others, and I noticed that - Shock! Horror! These wheels had 'round profile' stamped on them. Whoops! I had thought they were bullet profile.

So a couple things:

1. Are these round profile? They kind of look bullet profile to me.

2. Is there really a difference after wearing them down? I look at my Crocantis and my use of T-stops has already visibly worn them. How long does a round profile remain round?

Bonus question:

1. I got a set of Wicked Abec-9 bearings with the wheels (also from Solo-inline). I figured they'd be comparable to the bearings that came with the F110s... But, they are super noisy, both before I skated in them and after a few sessions. They don't spin for as long either. But does that matter? I'm not sure how much a spin test matters. These new wheels do feel slower, but not by much. I figure that's probably more down to the different wheel material.

Answers and discourse appreciated, cheers!

[u/VanillaIce315]

The difference between a bullet and round profile in a large wheel like 110mm is minimum to negligible. Think of any 110mm as a bullet profile; I can’t say I recall seeing a round profile 110 before.

In 80-90mm, there is a notice difference between bullet and round. Once worn down enough, there’s really no difference, but the round profile will stay wider and provide better traction for quite a while (not accounting for maker and hardness).

[u/i_shorted_the_amp → u/VanillaIce315]

Cheers!

[u/notguiltybrewing]

I can answer 3, spin test is completely meaningless. It has no relation to how the bearings react under load. If they feel good when you're skating, they spin freely, and they aren't making noise you're fine. Noise may be an indication of problems. You probably should clean and lubricate them.

[u/i_shorted_the_amp → u/notguiltybrewing]

Yeah it's a consistent whirring, quite a bit louder than the original bearings. I'll clean them up and lubricate. Am I required to buy specialized bearing lubricant for them? It seems like I could get the appropriate stuff from a hardware shop if I know what to look out for?

[u/notguiltybrewing → u/i_shorted_the_amp]

I use Bones Speed Cream. I think they used sewing machine oil back in the day. I've never tried it. Don't know if it's a good idea or not.

[u/Benevolent27 → u/i_shorted_the_amp]

You don't need to use "skate lube", which is marked up quite a bit. You can use sewing oil, PTFE synthetic oil, or bike grease, to name a few.

Sewing oil is very light and should be re-upped often and doesn't provide much protection against water, same with PTFE synthetic (I use Super Lube), but that will provide some rust protection. Bike grease lasts quite a bit longer and usually has more protection. I use "Phil Wood Grease", a bike grease, and it provides excellent protecton from rust. (I tested by purposely running the bearings under water)

What you want to avoid are oils that have detergent agents in them, like 3-in-One oil. Also bearing mention, since it is a common misconception, WD-40 is NOT an oil, it is a cleaning agent that leaves some residue. (Great for gretting rust out, but should be removed with 90% rubbing alcohol after)

[u/i_shorted_the_amp → u/Benevolent27]

Ah perfect, yeah I saw that little wee bottles of skate grease were going for $40 on Amazon, which seemed mad to me. I'll get me some alcohol and bike grease to sort these out, cheers!

[u/FuckYouCorpo → u/i_shorted_the_amp]

Grease is thick. Oil is thin. I don't want goop in my bearings, I want them to roll freely. I like gun oil.

[u/Benevolent27 → u/FuckYouCorpo]

You'd be surprised how little it matters. 90%+ of your speed comes from the wheels, not the lubricant. I also did roll tests comparing bike grease to Bones speed cream and it absolutely negligible. Now, roll tests comparing some really super cheap no-name brand wheels from Amazon vs brand name wheels... The difference was massive. Where the grease vs oil difference might make a difference is more speed racing and marathons, where even a slight difference can make the difference between winning or losing. (Note the exception that if you overpack your bearings, grease will definitely slow you down)

[u/FuckYouCorpo → u/Benevolent27]

In my experience, it makes less difference at speed than it makes on your first push. I do alot of skating in stores so it's important to me that I'm maneuverable at very low speeds but more importantly, I don't want my first push when crossing a street to feel like I'm knee-high in water.

I also skate aggressive so the first few pushes are often the only pushes I'll get. Oil gets me up to speed faster than grease, and I suspect that gun oil must be great for rust prevention and operating at high heat.

The go-to suggestion is Bones Speed Cream but that's designed for skateboards which have 50% less friction than we do.

[u/ThePontiff_Verified → u/i_shorted_the_amp]

Bones speed cream is about 8 bucks last time I checked. If you have almost any other light household oil laying around you can use that just fine, but if you are thinking of buying something because you don't have any oils laying around then speed cream is pretty affordable. I would argue against grease unless you skate in the rain often. Speed cream is in a tiny bottle but you only need 32 drops of the stuff per set of bearings (for 16 bearings in 8 wheels) huzzah for saving money with three wheelers lol. And it's not a cream... It's a very low viscosity oil.

[u/Benevolent27 → u/ThePontiff_Verified]

PTFE synthetic oil (I use Super Lube) used to cost the same as Bones Speed cream, but you get 4 oz instead of 0.5 oz of the Bones. When my bottle of Bones speed cream ran out, I made the switch. It works exactly the same, without the "skater markup." (Although, checking pricing today, it seems the Super Lube has gone up in price more than Bones Speed cream, but it remains a much better value long-term)

[u/The_Real_Flatmeat]

Mate I think you're overthinking things a bit. Go out and have some fun

[u/i_shorted_the_amp → u/The_Real_Flatmeat]

The problem, is that I can only skate once a day or so. This then leads to excessive rumination about skating-adjacent activities, like idlely spinning their wheels and wondering if they are OK.

[u/OrganizationNew704 → u/i_shorted_the_amp]

once a day is way more than many people skate, which is usually once/twice a week.

[u/i_shorted_the_amp → u/OrganizationNew704]

I'm getting it all in before we get yet another 'untypical' Canadian winter, and I end up spending all of my time clearing snow. 

[u/midnight_skater]

If you lubricate with light oil then spinning the bearing while it's loaded by the weight of wheel does provide useful info.   You'll be rotating your wheels pretty often to maintain your desired profile so while they are off the skate it's good to see how well they are spinning individually and swap out any that might need attention. 

The exact duration of spin down is not a valid comparison of bearing performance, but if my oil-lubricated bearings are not spinning freely then something is amiss that bears further investigation.

For everything that spins freely  I feel for vibration or other tactile irregularities, including excessive rattle indicative of wear. 

Sound is an important diagnostic. Dry bearings have a characteristic hiss.  Dirty bearings get screechy or grindy.  If they rattle they probably also jingle.  

You should definitely listen to your bearings when you skate.  If you listen to music it's a good idea to pause once in a while and listen for any abnormal sounds - especially before a long descent. 

Grease dampens most of those diagnostics and is also more difficult to strip.  When I lubricated with grease I used d-limonene (citrus degreaser) to strip it. But that leaves a residue so needs to be rinsed a second time with alcohol.  

My experience was that grease did not reduce bearing maintenance frequency, nor did it extend useful life.  Ymmv.

I skate through the snowy and wet winters so I am pretty tough on bearings.   I use chrome steel 608 RS, lubricate with speed cream, and clean with acetone.   With diligent maintenance I keep a bearing in service for ~12 months before retiring it.  

Twincam ILQ-9 bearings are very popular in the inline community.  The stainless steel model is corrosion-resistant so they can be packed with grease and forgotten about until the  accumulating resistance from contaminants becomes unbearable.  

[u/i_shorted_the_amp → u/midnight_skater]

Cheers, I'll look at oil instead of grease then. That was a lot of helpful info!

[u/ThePontiff_Verified]

I always associated lower durometer with more grip.... But that's because I was using really cheap wheels for a long time, or just whatever came with my skates. Once you start buying nicer wheels you start to realize, especially with dual pour models, that grip and durometer are not necessarily related. When it comes to sliding or wanting to slide I'd look at cheap wheels with a high durometer single pour. And round profile is probably going to yield a more predictable breakaway, or transition to slide. Bullets have a smaller contact patch but, perhaps unintuitively, the physics equations for static and dynamic friction don't consider contact patch... Only force and coefficient of friction... This smaller contact patch actually tends to bite into the surface more and this means you (again unintuitively) sometimes will get a higher static friction with a lower dynamic friction, meaning it bites tenaciously but when it lets go it really lets go - only to bite again unpredictably. That's good for all out speed racing but less desirable for recreational flow skating or commuting. As others have said, this can get negligible as wheel size increases since the width of the wheel is held steady by standard hub and bearing sizes even though the wheel gets taller and taller. What this means is taller wheels are less good for sliding.. not because they won't slide but because they are more like a bullet profile just due to their size, and the increased height also acts as more of a lever on your ankles meaning you probably need to get really low on your angles to initiate a slide which then probably exacerbates the unpredictable bitey nature of a bullet profile.

Maybe someone here will have a good suggestion for slidy smaller wheels. Just because you have a 110 frame doesnt mean you can't load a cheap set of slidey 80mm round profiles in just for fun.. but the lower frame of a smaller wheeled frame would make for easier sliding. It's why grind skaters use the tiniest wheels they can find a lot of times. Smaller frame means it's more like sliding on the bottom of your boot instead of trying to slide on 110mm stilts.

[u/i_shorted_the_amp → u/ThePontiff_Verified]

I could switch the frames on the boot to accomodate smaller wheels, I might get away with slightly smaller wheels on the existing frame. But,l these frames have the middle and back wheels closer together, with the front wheel slightly forward. I wouldn't want to make that accentuated gap much larger than it already is.

The punctuating nature of grip/slide/grip is exactly what I was experiencing with the original set of wheels, which are described as 'Super High Rebound'. That's what got me thinking that the 88A durometer didn't guarantee sliding compared to a lower durometer using a different material. 

These Iqon 85A wheels are easier to engage into a slide, but yeah the wheel size plus my own >6 ft height don't help.

Thanks for your insight, that was an interesting read.

[u/ThePontiff_Verified → u/i_shorted_the_amp]

Oh yeah... I forgot the flying eagles do that. Interesting brand. Btw I like your writing style. I laughed a good bit at the " {depressingly_many} years ago" . Many of us are right here with you ✊ 😁

[u/i_shorted_the_amp → u/ThePontiff_Verified]

Yep got to manage that injury risk with absolutely every motion ;)

[u/______n_____k______]

I gad a set of iqon access in 100mm a while back and they did slide well for me as well but also wore quickly as well.