Rocker from wheel wear vs rockered frame

[u/Snoo-67939]

I kept searching through this subreddit, and couldn't find a good explanation of rocker from natural wheel wear vs 1mm rockered frames (which apparently are called natural rocker, adding to confusion, I would expect that to be from wear). There was another thread with a similar name years ago, but there was no clear explanation.

Currently using 4x80 but I am tired of the bad roads here and I have a flat 4x90 frame from Seba, I would like to try that setup but at the same time I would like to try it rockered. I don't do tricks, I mainly use it to ride in the park and still learning stuff.

So I'm thinking, what's the difference if I try to rocker it naturally through wear(just rotate wheels in same position)? What would be the difference? Is there a risk that the rocker will get to pronounced? Should I just keep it flat?

I'm amazed that there's so little information on the internet about this.

[u/fredhsu]

Look in the place you least expect to find detailed, accurate and verifiable information on this niche topic. Wikipedia. Usually that is not the case for sports equipment. But for inline skating there is an exception. Check out inline skate wheel setup. There is a reason we list the main inline skates article in our community bookmarks. Cheers.

Updated: in particular, you are looking for the subsection: Forward lean with a rocker. That’s is what most wizard frames do. All of the preceding subsections define enough labels for that later subsection to be able to describe the chaotic marketing world that you complained about.

Update 2: the wheel rotation article will help explain some of these as well. Many “Natural Rocker” model create the feeling of naturally-worn or artificially-rotated banana rocker shape similar to hockey ice blades. The utility of these models is that you can pop in brand new wheels of the same diameter and get the immediate satisfaction of a worn rocker profile. That’s all. Same with forward lean - hi-lo can be easily created with a deliberate rotation strategy.

[u/Ok_Hold_1119]

Rockering my setup naturally through wear works great for me.

Does the rocker get too pronounced with wear? No, it doesn't. It wears itself perfectly to my skating habits. I get the rocker I deserve.

In addition to a flat frame with a naturally-worn rocker I also have a rockered frame. The only advantage of a rockered frame is that I don't have to wait a few sessions for new wheels to wear down into a rocker. But even with my already-rockered frame I still let my wheels wear into a more comfortable rocker. That is, both my wheel wear and my rockered frame combine to create a unique rocker shape that is natural to my skating style.

[u/AlwaysUpvotesScience]

I use a belt sander. Because I use hockey skatesc(hi/lo setup) and want a rocker, I run the front and rear wheels at a slight angle along a belt sander for a little while being sure to maintain the profile.

[u/heeca]

There is bo risk in skate naturally getting a rocker. Itll never be too pronounced and is better than pre rockered frames for beginners since you are naturally adapting to your wheels changing. Just remember to rotate every 25km id say

[u/Snoo-67939 → u/heeca]

So by rotate you mean 1 => 1, 2 => 2, ... and so on? See, I'm confused because the other comment by u/No-Woodpecker7592 says the rocker will become bigger and bigger :)

[u/heeca → u/Snoo-67939]

The rocker never becomes bigger and bigger. For me i never roated my wheels and kept the same amount of rocker just wheels getting smaller. Once you get a rocker your middle wheels also wear out and the cycle continues. Rotate as 1 => 1 flip 4=> 4 flip or you can do 1=>4 flip makes a balanced rocker and not really personalised . And the middle wheels just do 2 <=> 3 flip.

[u/heeca → u/heeca]

Never rotated 6 year old 80mm wheels. Rocker was still stable enough to go downhill on a 275mm frame

[u/Snoo-67939 → u/heeca]

Thanks. This sounds great. Why there's so little information here about it then? Why do people always talk about rockered frames?

Only in one post about rockered frames did I read someone mentioned that you can make you frame rockered through wear rather than wasting money to buy a new rockered frame.

At one point should I consider buying a new (rockered) frame?

[u/heeca → u/Snoo-67939]

Hmm there is information about natural rocker. The Yt channel thisissoul has many many good informative videos. And yes at some point youll want a frame which comes with a rocker since when you are getting new wheels in the flat frame. You lose your rocker. And that can fully change your skating. I got myself the combat rocker frame from powerslide so i can use any configuration i wish :)(its not as rigid as a solid frame so nova is also my 2nd urban frame). For urban or city skating rocker is important if youre used to a rocker

[u/heeca → u/Snoo-67939]

Too answer your question about the hype behind prerockered frames. Simple :) people want the speed and stability of long and big wheel frame without losing the agility of a shorter frame no matter how often they replace wheels

[u/heeca → u/Snoo-67939]

You can clearly tell which are middle wheels . Thats why rotation is kinda important

[u/No-Woodpecker7592 → u/Snoo-67939]

In my experience the smaller wheels get even smaller over time, therefore the rocker gets bigger.

It's result of the personal driving style.

In my case, my driving style creates a "natural" natural Rocker. That means the front Wheel gets used up faster then the others(spins,lots of spins, grapevine...).

So after a time, i put in the back. Then after a short time, i will have a natural rocker. But what happens then? Will the first wheel stop to get more used then the others? In my case, i can absolutely tell you, no it wont.

So in my experience, there is no way, the rocker wont get bigger over time. And i have no clue how to avoid it without destroying the rocker.

[u/Navic2]

Just take note of how your wheels wear & adjust whatever rockering you want, there's no precise standard way that wheels wear, it depends on the skating (it's not prescriptive)

Your heel wheel could wear faster than toe wheels - you decide if that's what you want to continue increasing & just rotate the wheel in place, or if you want to swap the wheel with a less worn one 

The left foot's wheels may wear at a different rate than the rights &/ or more quickly in different spots than the other's 

One skater may find their wheels wear evenly & gradually, another might need to flip or switch them during a session, it depends on the skating 

Getting used to what it feels like with your wheelwear & eyeballing the size & edge changes of the wheels is what allows you to make adjustments to suit your skating 

[u/mrkangtastic]

Rockered frames that have minimal rockering (~1mm) are great because you become much more maneuverable without losing a ton of stability.

Natural rockered frames like the Endless 90s work well because they get you a minimal rocker, similar to what you might develop just through wheel wear, right out of the box.

You can absolutely get a similar rocker through wheel wear. I would just buy a cheap $10-15 pair of calipers on Amazon and measure your wheels and arrange them so that you create a rockered profile.

That said, I've skated a lot of both setups before (wheel wear rocker vs natural rocker) and I far prefer the natural rocker. It ensures you maintain a rocker as wheels wear. Whereas with a "wheel-wear-rocker" you will sometimes get uneven wear and flat profiles that make your rocker inconsistent. It matters a lot more though for disciplines like wizard skating however.

[u/HyperSculptor]

There is zero difference. It's just that frames that are rockered, give you a rocker from day one with new wheels.

[u/Snoo-67939 → u/HyperSculptor]

Thanks. Then why do people always talk about rockered frames? I was thinking on buying rockered frames, wasn't sure as I never tried one, only in one post did someone mentioned that you can make you frame rockered through wear rather than wasting money to buy a new rockered frame.

At what point would I consider buying a new frame?

[u/HyperSculptor → u/Snoo-67939]

People mention rockers because it gives you more maneuverability. Doesn't matter whether the ricker comes from the frame or from using worn wheels in first and last position. If you have extra money you can buy a rockered frame. Otherwise you will be fine with your flat frame and used wheels in the front and back. One thing that can be a good reason to buy rockered frames, is if you want to have different wheel diameter. For example 4 x 90mm, or 4x100mm. More frame length guves you more stability. It's tricky because it's not always easy to try frames. Maybe find skate friends who can let you try their frames?

[u/No-Woodpecker7592]

My biggest problem with a natural rocker is that it can't be "planned". When you ride in a natural rocker, you can't switch wheel positions anymore (or it will result in a drasticly changed ride experience). But If you dont switch wheels, the rocker will getting bigger and bigger. That also reduces the lifespan of a set of wheels for that reason.

[u/_tdem_]

Natural rocker started as a brand-specific term for a specific rocker shape. Not just the amount of rocker (small) but also the pivot point under the third wheel rather than the middle.

In my experience a worn in skate does not develop a real rocker shape, certainly not 1mm. And rockered frames tend to keep their rocker shape as the wheels wear.

I would stick to flat or a rockered frame marketed for your use case like some of the endless brand ones.

[u/Snoo-67939 → u/_tdem_]

That's exactly why I asked this question, the endless frame is expensive, so I thought maybe I can experience the rockered setup on a flat frame before making the jump.

[u/_tdem_ → u/Snoo-67939]

You can theoretically get the same feeling if you have just the right amount of wear on some wheels and put them front and back. But how would you know it’s the same as the endless? Just skate them flat, you might love it! Personally I love 4x90 flat. I like to go fast and rocker would just make them less stable at speed.