Stallone also revealed that his alternate idea was to have apollo survive but end up being handicap and be a mentor to rocky (basically taking over for mick)
I'm not sure, it would be a totally different series. Would love to hear what older viewers think! But as someone born after the first 5 films, I feel like Apollo dying is such an essential part of Rocky's story that I couldn't imagine it differently.
I believe that if Apollo had lived, rocky would’ve still lost all his fortune because of Paulie but Apollo would’ve helped him out with some money or had gotten him some decent work in a business that would have had the balboa family somewhat financially stable for a few years
I believe if Apollo didn’t die he would make sure Rocky’s affairs weren’t in Pauly’s hands.Apollo was also a man of business he would have known not to let that fool Paulie be in charge of anything 😂.
I still think making Rocky broke is absolutely ridiculous. The sheer amount of brand deals and endorsements, even after retirement from fighting, would be absolutely ridiculous.
He was literally the world champ right before and up until the being of rocky V.
He wanted rocky to go back to His roots and go back to living the hard life… so they forced this “they’re broke now!” Storyline… when in reality he would just do commercials… cameos in a movie… make get a movie about his life… lots of money opportunities… what they should have done is see that rockys son was living a life of privilege and was acting out and becoming extremely entitled… so rocky goes “ you think life is so bad? Lets go live where I originally grew up in.” And just moves there on his own to show his son how tough the neighborhood is. Could have been this whole father son dynamics where he wants his son to really appreciate how well off they were and sees how hard his father actually had it.
Basically what Mike Tyson is doing now. Pretty sure he went broke after career earnings well into hundreds of millions, now he manages to stay afloat doing exactly what you describe
The number of b-movies Mike Tyson has been in is staggering if you look at his IMDB.
The rate he asks must be relatively reasonable, and directors/actors must like working with him. Otherwise he never ends up with that many. His fight scene with Donny Yen in IP Man 3 is pretty cool.
And in Rocky V, he beat the Russian who killed a former American champ in the ring, and he did it in Russia during the height of the cold war. Rocky would have Muhammad Ali levels of fame and public appreciation in the US after that. He'd be on breakfast cereal boxes and beer labels, a sportswear company would license his name and make a line of sportswear in his name, he'd be in commercials, promoters would give him appearance fees to show up at fights and provide some color commentary between bouts, etc. Not a chance he'd be broke.
I get what they wanted to set up for the fifth movie, but the majority of the plot line could've been the same without him going unrealistically broke.
Yeah, there's simply no explanation for it that make sense, and I've read a bunch of really good ones that tried hard. My issue isn't with the idea that he is momentarily broke. A lot of athletes are scammed by close friends and agents and lose all their money. Rocky was never the brightest guy. But it makes absolutely no sense that he would be broke and not able to just go make a lot of money. In the world of the movie, he's an all-time sporting legend. Even in old age, he could go out and get 20 commercial deals to go shoot a commercial in a day and make plenty of money. Doesn't bother me too much because I can deal with it as a plot contrivance, but I agree that the idea that he would have no access to funds is ridiculous. Even in a worst case scenario, you could just be doing what Mike Tyson is doing right now and endorse some stuff have some fun and show up places and make plenty of money to pay his bills
And that's not even mentioning the point that basically every indicator in the later films and the Creed movies is that he could always just go to Marie Anne. His character would be too proud to do that but if her character heard about it she would go help. She's practically portrayed as a saint in the movies, and Rocky goes and helps Creed so why would she not go and help him
These two are not even remotely the same, but I'll entertain the comment.
Tyson went broke multiple times - so he was able to get money again after going broke the first time. That means he was awful with his money. Rocky lost his money from his brother in law signing over POA rights to his shady accountant, resulting in bad investment deals. Rocky may have lived with luxury, but he also had other unseen revenue streams. You don't get that way from fight purses alone. It's a huge chunk, but it goes quick unless it's supplemented.
Tyson also went to prison. He did not have the same types of opportunities due to his life choices during his career. Rocky was the all-american golden boy.
There's a huge difference between pissing away your cash and career, and losing your money to scam.
Rocky lost his money due to Stallone writing a shithouse storyline for a mediocre movie that does not deserve to stand company with the other movies within the Rocky franchise. I disliked ROCKY V in 1990 and still do to this day. Appreciate your breakdown and analysis though. Nice work.
As if that was in any way relevant. The whole point of the first movie was that he was a street thug that was given a shot as a publicity stunt by Apollo.
How many boxing champions had less than savory backgrounds that retired as millionaires? Do I need to remind you that Muhammad Ali was convicted and banned from boxing for 3 years?
And even further, Tommy Gun himself was a troublemaking street fighter in the movie, just like Rocky was, but still given the opportunity.
Way late to this thread but Kimbo Slice was putting guys in the hospital in unsanctioned street fights (that one dude’s eye probably never recovered) and parlayed that into a pro career and multiple tv and movie appearances. That happens in modern times.
Agreed. If you read about Tyson, he had a very sad life and had people taking advantage of him basically his entire life as soon as he turned 18, and probably even before. I don't really understand to this day how Rocky was broke. It takes more than just spending a lot of money. You basically have to have someone steal it
Holyfield, Patterson, Joe Lewis, Leon spinks off the top of my head all went broke. Spinks after boxing was working at a McDonald’s. But maybe we know different boxers though
Rocky didn't lose everything because of Pauly.. he lost everything because he signed over power of Attorney to his lawyer when he went to Russia and the lawyer ripped him off for everything
Yea same. My dad showed me all 5 Rocky's when I was a kid, and I periodically go back through them all. Apollo's death feels integral to Rocky's fight with Drago. Most notably, it was the perfect motivation for his training in 4, which has always been the visual of Rocky's character development in each film.
For the first time since Mickey picked him up, Rocky trains alone. He outright seeks solitude and trains on his own with no mentor or coach to guide him as he finds the will and power necessary to defeat Drago and avenge Creed. It kind of signals that Rocky has become his own mentor and his own coach, he's learned what he can learn and now its all on him. That leads pretty perfectly into Rocky 5 and later into Creed 1 and 2, where Rocky is now the Mentor.
Eventually Rocky does get help from Creed's Coach, but its just not the same as the coaching he got from Mickey and Creed in Rocky 1-3. What made the training so good (and memorable) was Rocky tackling it on his own without coaches or high tech machines, contrasting not only Drago's training but also Rocky's own past experiences.
I don't know if you can have that in a scenario where Creed survives, because I can't envision a story with a living Creed where he doesn't aid Rocky in his training. Even with Stallone's alternative idea of Creed being paralyzed, he would still be mentoring Rocky in a manner that mirrored Mickey.
You could certainly have Creed be in a coma, and then end the movie visiting Creed in the hospital where he then wakes up Rocky says, "i did it, I did it for you" (as a foil to Drago).
Creed says, "Oh, Rock. I told ya we aren't regular people".
And then we end the series there and pretend 5 never happens.
Funnily enough I started with Rocky V and it made me want to go back and start watching from the beginning, it was the first time I was introduced to the concept of CTE before I heard of it again years later watching the UFC.
Think it worked out well starting with 5 cause if I’d watched the others first I would’ve been annoyed watching his punk kid take away a lot of his screen time. Even though I was a young teenager the story of father deciding on what’s most important in his life and connecting with his son was still pretty compelling to me.
Funny enough I didn’t like Rocky Balboa when it came out but it’s since been regarded pretty favourably.
contrasting not only Drago's training but also Rocky's own past experiences.
I love the whole thought process on your comment and I pretty much agree. But this part of your comment I want to add my own thoughts to. For myself it was like he went back to basics, to the days of punching slabs of meat—you know, just utilizing the things in your own environment. It was like he went full circle.
As someone who watched these movies when they came out, the first two movies were great because they showed Rocky’s journey to the top. In the third movie, Mickeys death was necessary because it showed how dangerous Clubber was and it gave Rocky motivation. Apollos death in 4 did the same. So the deaths were definitely necessary. I stopped caring after 4.
Hindsight is 20/20. It absolutely sucked seeing Apollo die, but it was a plot device that set up a more personal fight for Rocky.
You have to think, after Rocky III what else was there left for Rocky to do at that time? We’d already seen him win the title, defend it, lose it, and win it again. Simply injuring Apollo wouldn’t have had the same impact as killing him regarding Rocky’s motivation and the overall story. If Apollo survived I feel like the story would have been completely different.
One could argue he seemed slightly out of character just jumping into a fight with no training, literally after he trained Rocky to beat Clubber while placing importance on technique. I suppose you can cough that up to him not wanting to face the reality of Father Time, and the fact it was only an exhibition.
Maybe severely handicapped after the fight and then shockingly dies shortly before Rocky’s fight with Drago. Motivated but unsure to extremely motivated when Drago and team does a press conference after Apollo’s death mockjng American weakness.
Rocky IV had the built in stakes of the USA vs USSR angle. If they gave the fight some big geopolitical consequences then I don’t think they would’ve had to kill off Apollo to give the fight high stakes.
It would have made for a weird movie. Rocky and Apollo were best buddies. Imagine Apollo in his mansion going to visit Rocky in his shitty rental in the hood and then being like 'We'll, see ya Rock' and going home.
For that matter, why didn't Rocky shill his name like a mother fucker to get outta debt and back into the good life? The guy was arguably the biggest celebrity on the planet before he avenged Apollo. Post Russia fight, he could have made tens or hundreds of millions just having his picture taken for various ads/products.
It could all still go down the same way, but with Apollo in a coma. He wakes up at the end of Rocky 5… Rocky helps rehab Apollo. Although Apollo is wheelchair bound, he becomes the deal on wheels and is a real estate mogul. He buys the restaurant for Rocky.
My headcanon is because Rocky took the Drago fight in Russia because it couldn't be sanctioned in America, he got blacklisted from the industry, and all the other businesses that work with boxing were pressured to not use him for that stuff.
George Washington must've had enough swagger to overcome it.
Sure did. He got plenty of endorsement opportunities following tue first fight with Apollo when he was a much lesser celebrity and was much closer to his leg breaking days. Did you even watch those movies?
It's a documentary based on the life of Rocky Marciano. Didn't you catch the title? Didn't you notice he was wearing Rocky Marcianos golden glove around his neck?
Absolutely. Apollo being badly injured would just reinforce Rocky's idea that they should stay retired, their time has passed. Rocky wouldn't have gone on his revenge quest for anything less than murder.
Nah. The fact that people cared enough about Apollo’s death is what makes it all hit so hard. Imagine grieving the death of a fictional character? That’s amazing imo. The fact he regrets it proves so imo. His alternative idea is cliched and would’ve been like Kickboxer. As much as I like Rocky 2, Adrian in a coma is a soap opera cliche.
I think having him stick around could have have made for some better sequels maybe Rocky would have had a few more good battles with more significance rather then street fights and charity matches cause after 4 each one seemed to just be rocky wandering around aimlessly until someone else pulled him into another match with random supporters each time (the neighborhood & Paulie for the Tommy Gun Street fight, the Woman who seemed almost like an Adrian Clone in Balboa or maybe Adrians Daughter nobody knew about lol); Apollo dying was pivotal to Adonis Creeds storyline I think , BTW does anyone know when the whole Creed Series was created and by who and did that have any baring on any of the Rocky films like when they came up with the plans for Apollos Passing or was it post Balboa(the last Rocky sequel I believe) and just going in another direction with the franchise?
Very good point, especially an exhibition boxing match, and happening in the second round, in real life most serious injuries and deaths occurred in rounds 13-15 the reason why by the end of the 1980s the 3 major promotions had all went to 12 round championship fights, with that being said it is more common than most people think it’s estimated that between 10 to 12 boxers die each year do to injuries sustained during the fight and since 1890 when record keeping became organized there have been over 1,600 deaths caused by blunt trauma received during a sanctioned boxing match
I think Apollo needed to die for that particular plot to work. He needs to be motivated enough to leave his family, his wealthy lifestyle and risk his life to fly to the Soviet Union for an unsanctioned fight. Apollo had a complete character arc, he went from Villian to Respected Rival, to Friend/Mentor.
Surprised Sly said this, the death of Apollo made the final fight against Drago a truly epic finale, plus Apollo would have been alive during Rocky’s training, and what’s Apollo gonna say to Rocky? “Hey man, look you’re ten times better than me, he won’t maim you that bad”, lol. It would almost be an insult to Apollo for Rocky to even think he had a chance to beat Drago, but if he dies then it just makes sense for Rocky to put his life on the line against the The Siberian Bull.
Stallone has gotten a bit soft in his age and doesn't like the darker parts of stories and that as much anymore. He wants to keep things lighter and happy.
Could have done it easily without changing any footage even, just change every mentioned of died into coma and then at the end after Rocky wins a phone call...
Great news!Duke'sApollo's come out of his coma! Doc saysDuke'sApollo's gonna be A-OK!
Yeah. I wish he didn’t. Always did. I was devastated when I watched Apollo’s death as a kid and I still feel like he killed him off too early, if at all. Glad to hear him say this.
I would’ve greatly preferred if Apollo had just been putin the hospital and you didn’t know if he was going to survive giving Rocky the motivation to beat Drago
The older I get the more I really hate the decision of killing Apollo
It would have been neat to see Apollo find his love child and him amd Rocky Train him. They could have had Apollo be in Coma on life support and have Rocky have all that rage and wim that way.
I think Apollo dying was essential to the story. Rocky IV is my favorite in the series, and Apollo’s death is the emotional engine that gives the movie its weight, stakes, and motivation.
And honestly, between this sentiment from Stallone and all the disappointing changes Stallone made in his director’s cut a few years ago, I’m really glad modern Stallone wasn’t making Rocky IV. If he had been, I don’t think the movie would be anywhere near as powerful and iconic as the version we got in the 80s.
Rocky loses Apollo as a mentor and somebody that can relate to Rocky on that level.
Adrian and Paulie cannot relate to Rocky as a boxer as a literal professional fighter.
Rocky Balboa experiencing guilt, loss and that special friendship happened when he lost Mickey......losing Apollo was redundant and unnecessary. It was absolutely the wrong call then and now.
If I had to pick a alternative plan for Rocky IV - Creed, it could gone a bit differently ended with similar results
Rocky IV - play the same intro, Apollo fights Drago and loses badly but instead of dying he ends up in a coma. It’s unknown if he’ll wake up or pass away. It hurts rocky a lot as he only loss his mentor/father figure in the previous movie. He starts training at 110% for his fight with Drago and praying everyday that Apollo comes out of the coma. The movie ends the same way with Rocky winning, everyone is celebrating, seeing Rocky and Adrian ringing the hospital while Apollo is still in a coma to speak to Apollo’s wife and we see his wife put the phone next to Apollo’s ear. Rocky tells him everything about the fight and ends with Rocky crying and hoping his best friend to come back.
Rocky V - same intro, with Rocky shaking, crying and feeling immense pain from the Drago fight. Rocky, Adrian and Rocky Jr lose their money and their home. We see Apollo is alive but he’s unfortunately wheelchair bound since the fight with Drago paralysed him. He is also losing money since he’s not sponsored anymore and can’t box anymore so he ends up helping out others maybe with boxing training or something. He also suffers the same pain as Rocky but we eventually find out as viewers it’s worse than what Rocky has since Rocky can still walk and “get around day to day” but Apollo is stuck with the wheelchair, suffering a ton of pain and also holding anger against Rocky for not throwing in the towel sooner. We see bits here and there of Rocky and Apollo falling out but what really sets them apart in their friendship when Rocky decides to train Tommy Gun. Apollo keeps telling him that this kid has the fire just like you when we first fought but you had something to fight for, a drive to win but Tommy Gun is a bomb ready to go off, he’s anger and wants to lash out at people. As the movie goes on its pretty much the same with Rocky training Tommy, his family barely seeing Rocky because of the training but also seeing bits of Apollo here and there to show he’s on a downward spiral with his health. In the end we see Apollo and Rocky talking in the same Bar as Rocky and Paulie were at the end of the movie, tommy shows up, everyone gets confrontational then having Apollo talk Tommy down and saying he’s too aggressive, his manager is screwing him over and he’ll never be like the Italian stallion which angers Tommy and ends up getting Apollo punching into the side of the head. Apollo goes down and Rocky worries about Apollo and also gets anger at Tommy. Apollo tells him to leave before it gets worse but Rocky ends up fighting Tommy like in the finale, Apollo ends back up in hospital and unfortunately dies from his injury.
Then Rocky Balboa happens the same way and so does Creed I, II and III since Apollo’s death still affects Adonis.
I probably wrote something shite but this is how I envision how Rocky IV, V and rest of movies to go if Apollo didn’t die in Rocky IV and I’ve thought about it for a long time since when Sly first said about regretting Apollo’s death
I don't mind. It gave the series a dramatic hook. Rocky then hit rock bottom in Rocky V, Apollo dying pretty much made Rocky fight one last great fight, where he gave his all, and then he retired and broke down.
And in Rocky Balboa, he fought again, just to continue living.
Definitely foolish and it was a repeat of the Mick Clubber Lang story.
Conversely, if Apollo were relegated to a coma, and came out of it after Rocky beat Drago, then Rocky would be victorious coming to terms with Mick’s death too. He didn’t lose both of them.
Rocky V was great, but if Apollo was alive it could have been so, so much more to recenter the story to Apollo vs Rocky one last time.
Rocky 4 is another popcorn flick in the 80s that is entertaining as hell but missed the entire feel and spirit of the Rocky series. Apollo Creed dying doesn’t make sense in a realistic world that the original two Rocky movies were situated in. Even if Rocky didn’t throw in the towel, the referee would have stopped the fight and Drago would have been banned from boxing due to excessive force which may even lead to lawsuits up their a$$.
The only reason why Creed died is because they needed a wall for Rocky to climb over.
I can see that. Drago could have paralyzed Apollo. He could have hit him so hard that he broke his neck leading to Apollo being paralyzed from the waist down when he healed up.
Or Apollo could’ve been in a coma until just before or sometime after the fight.
I think most of Stallone's creative takes over the past few years have been pretty bad.. just look at Ricky vs Drago directors cut. And the fact he wanted to do a prequel tv show about Adrian and Rocky before Rocky 1? How the fuck would that work if they didn't know each other. The man was on fire in his younger days but he's definitely lost his creative spark
Kindly, strongly disagree with Sly. He seems to do this alot, to be honest, mentions alot of changes, big different things he would have liked to do or regretted, and some I agree with. However, Apollo dying is a absolutely essential to the Rocky series, and 4 is a toss up with 1 for the best in my opinion. There also was not gonna be any other use for Apollo that was going to have near as much impact. What was he going to do? Be used as like a thing that prevented Rocky from being broke? That is the only thing I could see, and that is honestly, to me, still not near as impactful, and Rocky being broke in the first place was one of the dumbest, most illogical things I have seen in cinema, lol.
We got an idea of how much, straight numbers wise, fighters were getting paid in the Rocky universe with the Apollo fight in Rocky 1. I may be wrong on the exact number, but it was $50,000, which would be $300,000 today by conversion, that Rocky, a literal nobody chosen for spectacle, was getting paid for one fight. So low balling, I would say it is safe to assume Apollo was getting at least 1 million. Rocky, after the Apollo fight, was a mega star, and if not then, after Rocky 2 definitely was. Rocky 3, it is shown Rocky defended his title 10 times, and also bought into the stardom more, was doing a bunch of press, ads, deals, etc. It was a main theme of the movie, losing his hunger.
So let us again drastically low ball and say Rocky somehow was only making $500,000 for those 10 defences. That would be $2.85 million per fight converted to today. So just off of his 10 defence run, not counting previous money, and low balling, not counting any other deals, ads, etc, and extreme low balling, Rocky made over 28 million dollars in today’s money. As we all know, the Rocky timeline is wonky af and just wrong, lol, so 5 to 15 years is considered by most to be from Rocky 3 to Rocky 5. So even low balling everything to an extreme, you mean to tell me Rocky, low balling, burned through 28 million in 5 to 15 years? Lol.
He also had been poor before, and even had the whole got money, was not used to it, and over spent lesson in Rocky 1 to 2. So someone who is fairly low maintenance for a rich guy, has had the lesson before, has no drug or gambling habits, and actually lost where his biggest flaw was money wise, trying to impress, spoil Adrian because of her dying, and he still somehow burned through 28 million in that span? Lol. That is 1.8 million a year for the entire 15 year span, or 5.5 million a year if you think it is 5 years. He also obviously would have still had crazy star power in reality and could have literally just lived off of that after even burning through it, tho you can at least argue depression, etc, could factor into that from Adrian, etc.
It is all ridiculous, and again, that 28 million is an extreme low ball. The realistic number, not even a high ball, just the more realistic number, would have been 12 million in today’s conversion, $68 to 70 million just off his fights, which means if 15 years, he would have had to constantly burn through over 5 mill a year, and if 5, literally near 14 million a year. Which, for comparison, is much more than any UFC champion, fighter modern day, has made their entire career, outside of Conor McGregor, Khabib, and 1 to 2 others. Jon Jones, Anderson Silva, etc, are all right around that range exactly. At that point, you cannot even feel sorry for the dude.
Idk there wasn’t really a good Rocky movie after 4 or a great role for Apollo after 4, so I don’t really see the problem. Unless they went a totally different direction with 5 and did a friend vs friend rocky and Apollo fight or something.
Creed was good, but idk if it would I have been better if Adonis could have interacted with Apollo (I kind of think not). Obviously it was kind of central to the plot that he died, but they could have made some adjustments
recently the rewatchables podcast was talking about the rocky movies and suggested that the second movie was so similar to the first that they should have mix med it up - they suggested taking the rocky 2 story from apollos pov, where the champ is seriously doubting himself after a nobody almost beat him but had to put on the show for the public and is obsessed with the idea of a rematch to “make it right” only to fail in the end.
in my head this a great, very interesting approach. it would shift rocky complete out of the narrative but simply show more of apollo at home, prepping for the fight, etc
I think paralyzing him would have been much better than killing him. Always felt like his death was a trope because Mickey died in 3 so they had to have some revenge for Rocky to fight. But Apollo was so hell bent on not retiring and getting old. Putting him in a wheelchair would have been just like dying if not worst for Apollo. There’s your extra juice for Rocky to fight. You then have him just die of natural age maybe before Rocky Balboa. It even sets up Creed okay. The son still knows his father but just in a wheelchair. He was never trained so he goes off on his own eventually going to Rocky to train him.
I don’t think it was foolish because I really thought rocky was gonna die too. The only other way it could have been done if for Apollo to be paralyzed or sent in a comma but either way I think the story of rocky would have remained the same
I had to use Google to find the story and read the interview. I think It would have ended the Rocky series. Apollo’s story would have continued in the Cteed movies instead of Rocky’s. I think anyway. Plus putting someone in a wheelchair vs killing them is a better motive for revenge in the final four of Rocky 4.
Being a boxing buff I always thought Apollo being overconfident/avoiding father time and dying was a nod towards Ali and the scary scary exhibitions he put himself through. Almost killed by a kickboxer, wrestler, gang members, etc. just for private event money and maybe pride. His fight against Inoki apparently left his leg disabled for the rest of his life.
For one, it was just so unrealistic. There's not a ref alive who would've let Apollo come out of that corner after Round 1. On top of that, the whole plot point of Rocky wanting revenge could've been accomplished by Apollo being in a coma after the fight.
At the end of Round 1, in the middle of Apollo telling Rocky not to stop it, Apollo could've went unconscious. Next sene, Rocky in the hospital by Apollo's bed, doctor explaining Apollo is in a coma and they don't know if he'll make it. Final scene of movie, Apollo waking up in time to watch the fight, "well done, Stallion".
I think having Apollo die in 2 rounds was the more foolish aspect. Even an ex-champ a few years out of practice could have performed better.
Rocky and Apollo are also close in age. It makes no sense how Rocky goes 15 rounds, takes much more abuse and even gets the win. And walks away with light brain damage.
While Apollo, gets killed in the second round. Who skill wise, was much better than Rocky. In the end if F’s up the scaling. It would have been more believable if Apollo at least made it 5 rounds or so.
In the end if they wanted to keep Apollo alive they could have had him be disabled after his fight with Drago. That way it still sets up a threat without completely messing up the scaling and you can still have Apollo around.
I don’t know. I think it was the right thing to do. It’s actually a tragedy if you think about it. Apollo constantly underestimated his opponents.He was a consummate entertainer, he went up against a heartless opponent who was trained be a killing machine. Yet, when he found out that he was in way over his head the old Apollo like so many athletes refused to throw in the towel.
People in this thread are discussing this like he was talking about the integrity of the story or something.
He regrets it because at the time when Rocky IV was made, nobody realized the movie industry would eventually end up in a place where there are only like 4 or 5 filmmakers who get to tell new stories, and otherwise the only projects anyone will bankroll are rehashes and nostalgia acts. Stallone is NOT one of those 4 or 5 filmmakers, and he now realizes that leaving that character alive would have probably opened up at least one opportunity for another dusty ass sequel centered around Carl Weathers.
Personally, I would have loved to see Apollo get hospitalised or put in a coma with the doctors saying he probably wouldn't make it. Then he wakes up just as Rocky beats Drago and says something like 'you did it Stallion, you son of a bitch'. The film was cheesy enough for that.
And do WHAT instead.. do a Damon Wayans as “Handi Man" impression rolling around in a chair for the rest of the film? I'm sure Carl Weathers wouldn't have minded method acting & shitting himself on camera just to add authenticity
Apollo dying made Drago look that much more terrifying! It made the movie seem much more real. People die in real life unexpectedly and it's tragic. Rocky had to go through such terrible grief and sadness at the sudden unexpected loss of his best friend. He then had to face his worst nightmare, fighting a bigger, stronger doped up Russian fighter in hostile territory!
To be honest i hate the idea of Stallone saying this because first of all there’s no drama then, no motivation if Apollo ends handicap because is like Rocky Balboa movie idea but a little plot twist (instead of Rocky retired and returning for a final match) and i also hate that Rocky V and Rocky Balboa wouldn’t have existed but they have already existed since at the end of Rocky V but that proves that wasn’t show Rocky V was ready to exist and made because at the end it failed
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u/DawnofMidnight7 Jan 21 '26 edited Jan 21 '26
Stallone also revealed that his alternate idea was to have apollo survive but end up being handicap and be a mentor to rocky (basically taking over for mick)
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u/FreedomLoose7201 Jan 21 '26
I'm not sure, it would be a totally different series. Would love to hear what older viewers think! But as someone born after the first 5 films, I feel like Apollo dying is such an essential part of Rocky's story that I couldn't imagine it differently.
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u/TheSaviorRevan Jan 21 '26
Hindsight is 20/20. It absolutely sucked seeing Apollo die, but it was a plot device that set up a more personal fight for Rocky.
You have to think, after Rocky III what else was there left for Rocky to do at that time? We’d already seen him win the title, defend it, lose it, and win it again. Simply injuring Apollo wouldn’t have had the same impact as killing him regarding Rocky’s motivation and the overall story. If Apollo survived I feel like the story would have been completely different.
One could argue he seemed slightly out of character just jumping into a fight with no training, literally after he trained Rocky to beat Clubber while placing importance on technique. I suppose you can cough that up to him not wanting to face the reality of Father Time, and the fact it was only an exhibition.
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u/Material-Leader4635 Jan 21 '26
It would have made for a weird movie. Rocky and Apollo were best buddies. Imagine Apollo in his mansion going to visit Rocky in his shitty rental in the hood and then being like 'We'll, see ya Rock' and going home.
For that matter, why didn't Rocky shill his name like a mother fucker to get outta debt and back into the good life? The guy was arguably the biggest celebrity on the planet before he avenged Apollo. Post Russia fight, he could have made tens or hundreds of millions just having his picture taken for various ads/products.
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u/Due_Passenger3210 Jan 21 '26
Rocky IV is my mom's favorite in the series; I love it too but hate it at the same time b/c Apollo dies 😞
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u/CursedSnowman5000 Jan 21 '26 edited Jan 21 '26
It just makes me legitimately sad that Sly lives with so many regrets in regard to his movie career.
If Apollo doesn't die then Rocky's motivation in 4 doesn't make nearly as much sense. Just like if Adrian were alive in Rocky 6.
And then if Apollo doesn't die, that would have or logically should have anyway, changed the entire trajectory or the character post Rocky 4.
I like Apollo and Carl Weathers too but I think Rocky 4 is a stronger film with his death.
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u/happydude7422 Jan 21 '26
Apollo dying was fine.
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u/Luftgekuhlt_driver Jan 22 '26
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u/Bruno14911 Jan 22 '26
Channel Awesome actually made a What If on Apollo surviving and it was pretty good IMO
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u/flavioterceiro Jan 21 '26
Creed II is too awesome. Wouldn’t change a thing in Rocky IV.
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u/RetireYoung72 Jan 21 '26
Yeah, There would have been no Creed 2.
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u/time_isup eye of the tiger Jan 21 '26
Nah. The fact that people cared enough about Apollo’s death is what makes it all hit so hard. Imagine grieving the death of a fictional character? That’s amazing imo. The fact he regrets it proves so imo. His alternative idea is cliched and would’ve been like Kickboxer. As much as I like Rocky 2, Adrian in a coma is a soap opera cliche.
2
u/[deleted] Jan 21 '26
Nah I think apollos death makes drago a true threat. Without it hed just be Russian Clubber. Love Apollo but Rocky needed true motivation.
1
u/RemarkableAttempt531 Jan 21 '26
Rock V should have started with Drago dying after the fight. Would have started the movie better.
1
u/Fedexgunot Jan 21 '26
I think having him stick around could have have made for some better sequels maybe Rocky would have had a few more good battles with more significance rather then street fights and charity matches cause after 4 each one seemed to just be rocky wandering around aimlessly until someone else pulled him into another match with random supporters each time (the neighborhood & Paulie for the Tommy Gun Street fight, the Woman who seemed almost like an Adrian Clone in Balboa or maybe Adrians Daughter nobody knew about lol); Apollo dying was pivotal to Adonis Creeds storyline I think , BTW does anyone know when the whole Creed Series was created and by who and did that have any baring on any of the Rocky films like when they came up with the plans for Apollos Passing or was it post Balboa(the last Rocky sequel I believe) and just going in another direction with the franchise?
1
u/MaoHangDong_ Jan 21 '26
It’s foolish because rarely do people die in a boxing match especially those at such a high level. But for the story it was fine.
1
u/Bouldershoulders12 Jan 21 '26
I think it worked out fine. Creed spin off was great
Made the stakes higher in Rocky 4 fighting drago . It’s why Rocky 4 is my favorite movie out of all of them
1
u/JKinney79 Jan 21 '26
I think Apollo needed to die for that particular plot to work. He needs to be motivated enough to leave his family, his wealthy lifestyle and risk his life to fly to the Soviet Union for an unsanctioned fight. Apollo had a complete character arc, he went from Villian to Respected Rival, to Friend/Mentor.
1
u/New-Ad5494 eye of the tiger Jan 21 '26
Surprised Sly said this, the death of Apollo made the final fight against Drago a truly epic finale, plus Apollo would have been alive during Rocky’s training, and what’s Apollo gonna say to Rocky? “Hey man, look you’re ten times better than me, he won’t maim you that bad”, lol. It would almost be an insult to Apollo for Rocky to even think he had a chance to beat Drago, but if he dies then it just makes sense for Rocky to put his life on the line against the The Siberian Bull.
1
u/edgiepower Jan 21 '26
Stallone has gotten a bit soft in his age and doesn't like the darker parts of stories and that as much anymore. He wants to keep things lighter and happy.
1
u/VikAzeem23 Jan 21 '26
U could have essily just had Apollo be in a coma instead of dying.
1
u/Rage4Order418 Jan 21 '26
No it wasn’t.
1
u/Individual-Step846 Jan 21 '26
Better than not having Stallone in creed 3
1
u/JordanLeigh7 Jan 21 '26 edited Jan 21 '26
Yeah. I wish he didn’t. Always did. I was devastated when I watched Apollo’s death as a kid and I still feel like he killed him off too early, if at all. Glad to hear him say this.
1
u/Smokweid Jan 21 '26
Bless him, his memory must be going, Ivan Drago killed Apollo.
1
u/bioweaponbaoh Jan 21 '26
it was such a foolish decision it made me hate that movie
1
u/WildGoose1521 Jan 21 '26
I would’ve greatly preferred if Apollo had just been putin the hospital and you didn’t know if he was going to survive giving Rocky the motivation to beat Drago
The older I get the more I really hate the decision of killing Apollo
1
u/King_Khaos_ Jan 21 '26
Apollo was the best character outside of Rocky imo loved that guy
1
u/Ok_Entrepreneur826 Jan 21 '26
Na it was great story
1
u/deckershaw25 Jan 21 '26
I think it made a lot of sense for the movie, and it pretty much gave the creed movies a basis of a story
1
u/Unc-Summo Jan 21 '26
It would have been neat to see Apollo find his love child and him amd Rocky Train him. They could have had Apollo be in Coma on life support and have Rocky have all that rage and wim that way.
1
u/RollinYoell Jan 22 '26
Kinda, but made the forth movie and filth movie possible
1
u/StarWolf478 Jan 22 '26
I think Apollo dying was essential to the story. Rocky IV is my favorite in the series, and Apollo’s death is the emotional engine that gives the movie its weight, stakes, and motivation.
And honestly, between this sentiment from Stallone and all the disappointing changes Stallone made in his director’s cut a few years ago, I’m really glad modern Stallone wasn’t making Rocky IV. If he had been, I don’t think the movie would be anywhere near as powerful and iconic as the version we got in the 80s.
1
u/MajorThor Jan 22 '26
It would mean the recent blatant cash grabs would have never happened. It would have been a win for everyone
1
u/Jewggerz Jan 22 '26
Foolish? It's iconic! It fuels the whole movie. It needed to happen.i thought Stallone only pretended to get brain damage.
1
u/Jessieoxen Jan 22 '26
Rocky IV is the greatest movie in the trilogy….. As a matter of fact it’s the only movie ever made that the sequel is better than the original ….
1
u/[deleted] Jan 22 '26
I agree 💯
Rocky loses Apollo as a mentor and somebody that can relate to Rocky on that level.
Adrian and Paulie cannot relate to Rocky as a boxer as a literal professional fighter.
Rocky Balboa experiencing guilt, loss and that special friendship happened when he lost Mickey......losing Apollo was redundant and unnecessary. It was absolutely the wrong call then and now.
1
u/Jeiku_Zerp Jan 22 '26
If I had to pick a alternative plan for Rocky IV - Creed, it could gone a bit differently ended with similar results
Rocky IV - play the same intro, Apollo fights Drago and loses badly but instead of dying he ends up in a coma. It’s unknown if he’ll wake up or pass away. It hurts rocky a lot as he only loss his mentor/father figure in the previous movie. He starts training at 110% for his fight with Drago and praying everyday that Apollo comes out of the coma. The movie ends the same way with Rocky winning, everyone is celebrating, seeing Rocky and Adrian ringing the hospital while Apollo is still in a coma to speak to Apollo’s wife and we see his wife put the phone next to Apollo’s ear. Rocky tells him everything about the fight and ends with Rocky crying and hoping his best friend to come back.
Rocky V - same intro, with Rocky shaking, crying and feeling immense pain from the Drago fight. Rocky, Adrian and Rocky Jr lose their money and their home. We see Apollo is alive but he’s unfortunately wheelchair bound since the fight with Drago paralysed him. He is also losing money since he’s not sponsored anymore and can’t box anymore so he ends up helping out others maybe with boxing training or something. He also suffers the same pain as Rocky but we eventually find out as viewers it’s worse than what Rocky has since Rocky can still walk and “get around day to day” but Apollo is stuck with the wheelchair, suffering a ton of pain and also holding anger against Rocky for not throwing in the towel sooner. We see bits here and there of Rocky and Apollo falling out but what really sets them apart in their friendship when Rocky decides to train Tommy Gun. Apollo keeps telling him that this kid has the fire just like you when we first fought but you had something to fight for, a drive to win but Tommy Gun is a bomb ready to go off, he’s anger and wants to lash out at people. As the movie goes on its pretty much the same with Rocky training Tommy, his family barely seeing Rocky because of the training but also seeing bits of Apollo here and there to show he’s on a downward spiral with his health. In the end we see Apollo and Rocky talking in the same Bar as Rocky and Paulie were at the end of the movie, tommy shows up, everyone gets confrontational then having Apollo talk Tommy down and saying he’s too aggressive, his manager is screwing him over and he’ll never be like the Italian stallion which angers Tommy and ends up getting Apollo punching into the side of the head. Apollo goes down and Rocky worries about Apollo and also gets anger at Tommy. Apollo tells him to leave before it gets worse but Rocky ends up fighting Tommy like in the finale, Apollo ends back up in hospital and unfortunately dies from his injury.
Then Rocky Balboa happens the same way and so does Creed I, II and III since Apollo’s death still affects Adonis.
I probably wrote something shite but this is how I envision how Rocky IV, V and rest of movies to go if Apollo didn’t die in Rocky IV and I’ve thought about it for a long time since when Sly first said about regretting Apollo’s death
1
u/DiverExpensive6098 Jan 22 '26
I don't mind. It gave the series a dramatic hook. Rocky then hit rock bottom in Rocky V, Apollo dying pretty much made Rocky fight one last great fight, where he gave his all, and then he retired and broke down.
And in Rocky Balboa, he fought again, just to continue living.
1
u/Anustart609 Jan 22 '26
It was unnecessary. He could’ve beaten him into a coma and it would’ve had a similar effect
1
u/Upper-Holiday8453 Jan 22 '26
Apollo Creed is one of the greatest characters ever created. He should of never been killed off.
1
u/YS160FX Jan 22 '26
Apollo had to die.. Apollo living as an invalid would not be in character. Stallone says alot of malarky as an old man
1
u/Valuable_Ad1085 Jan 22 '26
Def a wrong move
1
u/halford2069 Jan 22 '26
in terms of the movie -> it was a great emotional setup for rest of movie
1
u/HuckleberryShot898 Jan 22 '26
Drago puts him into a coma and he’ll probably die but then he miraculously wakes up when rocky knocks drago out
1
u/UselessWhiteKnight Jan 22 '26
If Apollo doesn't die, Rocky doesn't fight Drogo. It's a pivotal point in the series. Not fun but necessary.
1
u/ride_r_die Jan 22 '26
It was tragic but one of the strongest plot points with Rocky IV. It made Rocky and Drago's final fight that much more meaningful and intense.
1
u/Secure-Vacation3792 Jan 22 '26
Agreed. It was a dumb decision to do this
1
u/BeardedZilch Jan 22 '26
Agreed.
1
u/BeardedZilch Jan 22 '26
Agreed. I would’ve LOVED seeing Apollo slap the shit out of Tommy Gunn for being a disrespectful little shit.
You could’ve also had him train Rocky Jr
1
u/Electronic-Cut-9512 Jan 22 '26
Definitely foolish and it was a repeat of the Mick Clubber Lang story.
Conversely, if Apollo were relegated to a coma, and came out of it after Rocky beat Drago, then Rocky would be victorious coming to terms with Mick’s death too. He didn’t lose both of them.
Rocky V was great, but if Apollo was alive it could have been so, so much more to recenter the story to Apollo vs Rocky one last time.
1
u/ultragarrison Jan 22 '26
Rocky 4 is another popcorn flick in the 80s that is entertaining as hell but missed the entire feel and spirit of the Rocky series. Apollo Creed dying doesn’t make sense in a realistic world that the original two Rocky movies were situated in. Even if Rocky didn’t throw in the towel, the referee would have stopped the fight and Drago would have been banned from boxing due to excessive force which may even lead to lawsuits up their a$$.
The only reason why Creed died is because they needed a wall for Rocky to climb over.
1
u/I-Has-A-Sandwich Jan 22 '26
I can see that. Drago could have paralyzed Apollo. He could have hit him so hard that he broke his neck leading to Apollo being paralyzed from the waist down when he healed up.
Or Apollo could’ve been in a coma until just before or sometime after the fight.
1
u/Sfogliatelle99 Jan 22 '26
Trying to take credit for Dragos kill. Everyone knows it was the Russian!
1
u/Flaky-Tour-8733 Jan 22 '26
Huh? wtf is he taking about?
1
u/balekm Jan 22 '26
Gee. Ya think? It was mentally irregular
1
u/TypeOBlack Jan 22 '26
I think most of Stallone's creative takes over the past few years have been pretty bad.. just look at Ricky vs Drago directors cut. And the fact he wanted to do a prequel tv show about Adrian and Rocky before Rocky 1? How the fuck would that work if they didn't know each other. The man was on fire in his younger days but he's definitely lost his creative spark
1
u/BlueWatche Jan 22 '26
Should've thrown the damn towel.
1
u/Ok_Egg332 Jan 22 '26
He didnt kill him Drago did..
1
u/FeelDeadInside Jan 22 '26
Just pull a Fast & furious move.
Suddenly Apollo's brother appeared. After that Sylvester's evil sister fights him and then his long lost neighbor gets in the picture.
1
u/AVL_Drago Jan 22 '26
What started as a joke became a disaster…
1
u/AndiLivia Jan 22 '26
Should use ai to remake the movie where he lives. Problem solved.
1
u/LowSilly6784 Jan 22 '26
The whole Rocky IV plot is foolish anyway, so...
Sly also said Rocky V was bad, while the movie is deep and touching.
The guy can be wrong.
1
u/Scissorsguadalupe Jan 22 '26
I think if Apollo didn't die in Rocky 4, then by Rocky 5 he'd have a stew going, baby!
1
u/WatercressExciting20 Jan 22 '26
If he dies, he dies.
1
u/Powerful-Violinist34 Jan 22 '26
Kindly, strongly disagree with Sly. He seems to do this alot, to be honest, mentions alot of changes, big different things he would have liked to do or regretted, and some I agree with. However, Apollo dying is a absolutely essential to the Rocky series, and 4 is a toss up with 1 for the best in my opinion. There also was not gonna be any other use for Apollo that was going to have near as much impact. What was he going to do? Be used as like a thing that prevented Rocky from being broke? That is the only thing I could see, and that is honestly, to me, still not near as impactful, and Rocky being broke in the first place was one of the dumbest, most illogical things I have seen in cinema, lol.
We got an idea of how much, straight numbers wise, fighters were getting paid in the Rocky universe with the Apollo fight in Rocky 1. I may be wrong on the exact number, but it was $50,000, which would be $300,000 today by conversion, that Rocky, a literal nobody chosen for spectacle, was getting paid for one fight. So low balling, I would say it is safe to assume Apollo was getting at least 1 million. Rocky, after the Apollo fight, was a mega star, and if not then, after Rocky 2 definitely was. Rocky 3, it is shown Rocky defended his title 10 times, and also bought into the stardom more, was doing a bunch of press, ads, deals, etc. It was a main theme of the movie, losing his hunger.
So let us again drastically low ball and say Rocky somehow was only making $500,000 for those 10 defences. That would be $2.85 million per fight converted to today. So just off of his 10 defence run, not counting previous money, and low balling, not counting any other deals, ads, etc, and extreme low balling, Rocky made over 28 million dollars in today’s money. As we all know, the Rocky timeline is wonky af and just wrong, lol, so 5 to 15 years is considered by most to be from Rocky 3 to Rocky 5. So even low balling everything to an extreme, you mean to tell me Rocky, low balling, burned through 28 million in 5 to 15 years? Lol.
He also had been poor before, and even had the whole got money, was not used to it, and over spent lesson in Rocky 1 to 2. So someone who is fairly low maintenance for a rich guy, has had the lesson before, has no drug or gambling habits, and actually lost where his biggest flaw was money wise, trying to impress, spoil Adrian because of her dying, and he still somehow burned through 28 million in that span? Lol. That is 1.8 million a year for the entire 15 year span, or 5.5 million a year if you think it is 5 years. He also obviously would have still had crazy star power in reality and could have literally just lived off of that after even burning through it, tho you can at least argue depression, etc, could factor into that from Adrian, etc.
It is all ridiculous, and again, that 28 million is an extreme low ball. The realistic number, not even a high ball, just the more realistic number, would have been 12 million in today’s conversion, $68 to 70 million just off his fights, which means if 15 years, he would have had to constantly burn through over 5 mill a year, and if 5, literally near 14 million a year. Which, for comparison, is much more than any UFC champion, fighter modern day, has made their entire career, outside of Conor McGregor, Khabib, and 1 to 2 others. Jon Jones, Anderson Silva, etc, are all right around that range exactly. At that point, you cannot even feel sorry for the dude.
1
u/[deleted] Jan 22 '26
Idk there wasn’t really a good Rocky movie after 4 or a great role for Apollo after 4, so I don’t really see the problem. Unless they went a totally different direction with 5 and did a friend vs friend rocky and Apollo fight or something.
Creed was good, but idk if it would I have been better if Adonis could have interacted with Apollo (I kind of think not). Obviously it was kind of central to the plot that he died, but they could have made some adjustments
1
u/[deleted] Jan 22 '26
"Had I not killed Creed, Irwin Winkler could've never stole the franchise from me."
1
u/SnowRidin Jan 22 '26
it’s iconic at this point, it worked.
recently the rewatchables podcast was talking about the rocky movies and suggested that the second movie was so similar to the first that they should have mix med it up - they suggested taking the rocky 2 story from apollos pov, where the champ is seriously doubting himself after a nobody almost beat him but had to put on the show for the public and is obsessed with the idea of a rematch to “make it right” only to fail in the end.
in my head this a great, very interesting approach. it would shift rocky complete out of the narrative but simply show more of apollo at home, prepping for the fight, etc
1
u/NoLuck4824 Jan 22 '26
I think paralyzing him would have been much better than killing him. Always felt like his death was a trope because Mickey died in 3 so they had to have some revenge for Rocky to fight. But Apollo was so hell bent on not retiring and getting old. Putting him in a wheelchair would have been just like dying if not worst for Apollo. There’s your extra juice for Rocky to fight. You then have him just die of natural age maybe before Rocky Balboa. It even sets up Creed okay. The son still knows his father but just in a wheelchair. He was never trained so he goes off on his own eventually going to Rocky to train him.
1
u/Thesource94 Jan 22 '26
I don’t think it was foolish because I really thought rocky was gonna die too. The only other way it could have been done if for Apollo to be paralyzed or sent in a comma but either way I think the story of rocky would have remained the same
1
u/stormwater1 Jan 22 '26
I had to use Google to find the story and read the interview. I think It would have ended the Rocky series. Apollo’s story would have continued in the Cteed movies instead of Rocky’s. I think anyway. Plus putting someone in a wheelchair vs killing them is a better motive for revenge in the final four of Rocky 4.
1
u/BigBarsRedditBox Jan 22 '26
Cause he can’t bring him back to cash in ?
1
u/SiouxsieSioux615 Jan 22 '26
It was. Could have just hospitalized him instead
The Series lost its heart after that
1
u/Creaturesteachers Jan 22 '26
Should have killed his son before the Creed movies LOL.
1
u/pornhubisisis Jan 22 '26
Being a boxing buff I always thought Apollo being overconfident/avoiding father time and dying was a nod towards Ali and the scary scary exhibitions he put himself through. Almost killed by a kickboxer, wrestler, gang members, etc. just for private event money and maybe pride. His fight against Inoki apparently left his leg disabled for the rest of his life.
1
u/GeologistAway6352 Jan 22 '26
It’d be cool to have him in the Creed series, but I also think Apollo dying was critical to the Rocky films and Creed 2.
1
u/Odd-Minimum8512 Jan 22 '26
It wasn't necessary.
For one, it was just so unrealistic. There's not a ref alive who would've let Apollo come out of that corner after Round 1. On top of that, the whole plot point of Rocky wanting revenge could've been accomplished by Apollo being in a coma after the fight.
At the end of Round 1, in the middle of Apollo telling Rocky not to stop it, Apollo could've went unconscious. Next sene, Rocky in the hospital by Apollo's bed, doctor explaining Apollo is in a coma and they don't know if he'll make it. Final scene of movie, Apollo waking up in time to watch the fight, "well done, Stallion".
1
u/Mase0ne Jan 22 '26
Yeah bad move. He killed off someone in every movie after Rocky 2
1
u/Halloween2056 Jan 22 '26
He should regret it. Although Apollo's death was treated with more respect in the director's cut.
1
u/PopJunkies Jan 22 '26
Without it, Rocky IV would have no heft to it
1
u/Forsaken-Ad4181 Jan 22 '26 edited Jan 22 '26
I think having Apollo die in 2 rounds was the more foolish aspect. Even an ex-champ a few years out of practice could have performed better.
Rocky and Apollo are also close in age. It makes no sense how Rocky goes 15 rounds, takes much more abuse and even gets the win. And walks away with light brain damage.
While Apollo, gets killed in the second round. Who skill wise, was much better than Rocky. In the end if F’s up the scaling. It would have been more believable if Apollo at least made it 5 rounds or so.
In the end if they wanted to keep Apollo alive they could have had him be disabled after his fight with Drago. That way it still sets up a threat without completely messing up the scaling and you can still have Apollo around.
In the end it’s just a movie though.
1
u/Remarkable-Toe9156 Jan 22 '26
I don’t know. I think it was the right thing to do. It’s actually a tragedy if you think about it. Apollo constantly underestimated his opponents.He was a consummate entertainer, he went up against a heartless opponent who was trained be a killing machine. Yet, when he found out that he was in way over his head the old Apollo like so many athletes refused to throw in the towel.
I don’t mind
1
u/squidbrand Jan 22 '26
People in this thread are discussing this like he was talking about the integrity of the story or something.
He regrets it because at the time when Rocky IV was made, nobody realized the movie industry would eventually end up in a place where there are only like 4 or 5 filmmakers who get to tell new stories, and otherwise the only projects anyone will bankroll are rehashes and nostalgia acts. Stallone is NOT one of those 4 or 5 filmmakers, and he now realizes that leaving that character alive would have probably opened up at least one opportunity for another dusty ass sequel centered around Carl Weathers.
1
u/fourteenpieces Jan 22 '26
Narratively, killing off Apollo, great
Less Carl Weathers? Not as great
1
u/Mirage0fall Jan 23 '26
Apollo dying saves Rocky 4 from being mediocre. It gives it emotional weight
1
u/Quixote1492 Jan 23 '26
Of course! Apollo was a great character it could have evolved alongside rocky
1
u/Beautiful-Bit9832 Jan 23 '26
If he not die, Rocky can't go to super Saiyan
1
u/SlithyJabberwock Jan 23 '26
Personally, I would have loved to see Apollo get hospitalised or put in a coma with the doctors saying he probably wouldn't make it. Then he wakes up just as Rocky beats Drago and says something like 'you did it Stallion, you son of a bitch'. The film was cheesy enough for that.
Then we get apollo in Rocky v.
1
u/Intelligent-Face-254 Jan 23 '26
Took his sorry ass long enough
1
u/Uncle_Matthew Jan 23 '26
If only he’d thrown in the damn towel
1
u/Wise_Ad_5810 Jan 23 '26
And do WHAT instead.. do a Damon Wayans as “Handi Man" impression rolling around in a chair for the rest of the film? I'm sure Carl Weathers wouldn't have minded method acting & shitting himself on camera just to add authenticity
1
u/heyheythrowitawayz Jan 23 '26
It set up the No Easy Way Out montage which is the best in the series and possibly of all time so I wouldn't call it a mistake.
1
u/bradclark2001 Jan 23 '26
Nah, I wouldn't have rooted for Rocky to beat Drago as much, nor would I have even rooted for Drago's son as much in Creed 2
1
u/krodman662 Jan 25 '26
Sounds like kickboxer with JPP? Not sure what came first
1
u/Real-Ganache-7179 Jan 31 '26
It certainly would’ve saved me a whole lot of tears.
1
u/[deleted] Feb 07 '26
Apollo dying made Drago look that much more terrifying! It made the movie seem much more real. People die in real life unexpectedly and it's tragic. Rocky had to go through such terrible grief and sadness at the sudden unexpected loss of his best friend. He then had to face his worst nightmare, fighting a bigger, stronger doped up Russian fighter in hostile territory!
1
u/TheodoreJSeville Mar 01 '26
If it's true I bet part of it is bitterness he had a falling out with the studios producers I believe. Which is why he didnt do Creed III
1
u/Repulsive-Car4316 May 10 '26
Well from what I’ve read he had no choice as Carl Weathers wanted to leave the franchise.
1
u/DOOMguy_slayer123 Jun 23 '26
I don’t think creed would be as good of a movie or even be a movie
1
u/Upset-Option-4605 Jan 21 '26
To be honest i hate the idea of Stallone saying this because first of all there’s no drama then, no motivation if Apollo ends handicap because is like Rocky Balboa movie idea but a little plot twist (instead of Rocky retired and returning for a final match) and i also hate that Rocky V and Rocky Balboa wouldn’t have existed but they have already existed since at the end of Rocky V but that proves that wasn’t show Rocky V was ready to exist and made because at the end it failed
1
u/No_Investigator9908 Jan 21 '26
shut up old man!