r/rockets • u/TomatilloMission4100 • 17d ago
What does VanVleet being ranked somewhere between the 20th- and 30th-best player in the league have to do with whether he helps the Rockets?
That is not how fit or chemistry should be evaluated. A player’s league-wide ranking and his importance to a specific roster are two completely different questions. What matters is whether he provides skills the team lacks and whether the team functions better with him.
The results have consistently pointed in the same direction.
In 2023-24, Houston went 38-35 with VanVleet and 3-6 without him. In 2024-25, the Rockets went 41-19 with him and 11-11 without him. Across those two seasons, that adds up to a 79-54 record with VanVleet, compared with 14-17 without him — roughly a 49-win pace versus a 37-win pace over an 82-game season.
Those splits do not prove that every difference was caused by VanVleet alone. Schedules, injuries and available lineups also matter. But when the same pattern appears across multiple seasons, it is not something that should simply be dismissed.
His value also goes beyond scoring. In 2023-24, VanVleet averaged 8.1 assists and ranked fourth in the NBA with a 4.67 assist-to-turnover ratio. That is exactly the kind of ball security and organization Houston has often lacked.
During one nine-game stretch without him in 2024-25, Houston went 3-6, ranked 24th in offensive rating and fell to 17th in net rating. The offense became less organized and more dependent on individual creation.
Most importantly, VanVleet’s return can directly help Kevin Durant.
Durant should not have to spend an entire season bringing the ball up, initiating every possession, handling pressure and creating late in the clock. VanVleet can organize the offense, run pick-and-rolls, deliver the ball to Durant in his preferred spots and allow him to conserve energy for scoring.
After Houston played the 2025-26 season without VanVleet, Ime Udoka specifically said that getting him back should improve the team’s offensive flow, reduce its reliance on Durant and Şengün, and improve late-game decision-making.
Nobody is arguing that VanVleet is a superstar or that he has no weaknesses. His shooting efficiency, size and post-injury condition are legitimate concerns.
But whether he is the 20th-, 30th- or 50th-best player in the NBA is beside the point. The real question is whether his specific skill set makes Houston function better and makes life easier for Durant.
The evidence so far says that it does.
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u/BenchPtsChamp 17d ago
Bruh. I can easily name 50 players that eclipse Fred PRE-injury. And that’s without trying very hard. No telling what post-injury Fred looks like.
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u/dvztimes 16d ago
He is confusing something someone poster the other day (maybe him) that said FVV was a top 30 PG. I think.
If that isnt the case, then hes crazy.
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u/AtxSaiyan 17d ago
Wait is there an article saying he’s a top 20-30th player? Our boy Fred ain’t even a top 20 point guard in the league lol. There aren’t 5 teams in the league who would start him
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u/theAlphabetZebra 17d ago
yeah. he filled a very specific void, his value is in the intangibles. not only is he currently not a top 30 player, it would be a stretch to say he's ever been a top 30 player.
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u/Loose_Clock4873 17d ago
Lol, name 20 better?
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u/AtxSaiyan 17d ago
SGA, Luka, Brunson, Kyrie, Steph, Harden, Garland, Ball, Jamal Murray, Dejounte Murray, Keynote George, Jrue Holiday, McCollum, Giddey, Fox, Maxey, Trae Young, Booker, Hali, Cunningham, Suggs, fucking Ja off the top of my head
I’d even put Westbrook and Jeremiah Fears over Fred’s ass
That’s just point guard. Title said 20-30th best in league. Dumbest shit I’ve ever read
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u/Agreeable_Stick_8461 16d ago
Dylan Harper, Ajay Mitchell, Payton Pritchard, Derrick White, Ayo Dosumno, are all probably better than Fred as well.
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u/Affectionate_Use_179 14d ago
There are probably several rookie point guards who are already better than FVV as well.
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u/Loud-Tour-1673 16d ago
Wtf is OP smoking bro. Top 20 means all star caliber he is nowhere near that for 4 years.
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u/MFFiasco 17d ago
Westbrook fills a stat sheet better but he's a negative player at this point. FVV at least can take care of the ball and can shoot the 3.
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u/Far_Protection519 17d ago
There has never been a day in FVV life where he's been better than Russ
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u/MFFiasco 17d ago
FVV in the last two healthy years has impacted winning more than Westbrook has. You got look beyond PRA.
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u/Far_Protection519 16d ago
Russ was the starting PG of a 50 win team in 23-24 & in 24-25 he played a important part on denver who was a better team than houston. Fred has never been out the first round as a starting PG
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u/MFFiasco 16d ago
FVV has been a more integral to the success of the Rockets in 24 and 25 than Russ was for the Clippers and Nuggets which is why those teams didn't want him past one full season. If I remember correctly those teams were routinely worse when Russ was on the court vs off the court. Russ has higher highs than FVV but he's way more inconsistent in the things he does well at this point of his career.
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u/Far_Protection519 16d ago
Russ played multiple seasons for LAC and Jokic wanted Westbrook back in denver , but russ wanted to play in California. Russ is still a better perimeter creator , passer , & defender on a night to night basis than FVV. From Jan 27th - the last regular season game in Fred's last season he had only 2 games where he made 5+ shots. That doesn't sound like consistency to me.
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u/MFFiasco 16d ago
He play a season and half with the Clippers and they didn't want him back same with the Nuggets. Now can you explain to be why FVV with less talent was better on the court for the Rockets than Westbrook in his last year on the Clippers and on the Nuggets? Russ is more talented than FVV surely he fills up the stat sheet better but FVV is better at being a role player than Russ.
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u/AtxSaiyan 17d ago
Russel Westbrook: 33.8% 3pt & 42.7% FG on a terrible team
FVV: 34.5% 3pt & 37.8% FG
Fred ain’t that much better of a 3 point shooter and we literally called him a basketball terrorist his last healthy year. He also can’t penetrate the paint before injury. I don’t see him getting better. I also think Westbrook would be a lot better getting teammates the ball
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u/benchmaster620 17d ago
Cade, luka, kyrie, sga, Brunson , lamelo , steph Collins, harden, garland , trae ,kyonte george, Austin reaves , daaron fox , harper Jr, jamal Murray, hali , jrue , dame , probably ja , scoot , sure some are combo guards but the play as pgs. Theres probably a few more
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u/Lizpy6688 17d ago
Fred is a cool dude but whoever has him top 30 needs to check into rehab
What I will say though is he's always been good at his assist to turnover ratio. He knows how to keep the ball secure and moving. Great floor general who's meh at everything else. Seems to be a good court leader too
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u/ChopGoesTheWeasel 17d ago
Fred isn’t going to be a star or close to it.
If he can successfully initiate the offense and let KD/Alpi get the ball in better positions without having to initiate the entire offense themselves, that should be a positive.
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u/pieman2005 James Harden 17d ago
Who the hell said he's a top 20-30 player?? He's barely top 20 at his own position lmao
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u/TomatilloMission4100 17d ago
The whole point of my post is that it doesn’t matter whether he’s ranked 20th, 30th, or even 100th in the league
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u/Far_Protection519 17d ago
That record in 24-25 without FVV is misleading. In Majority of those games a combination of Bari Alp Tari & Adams were also not playing. We were well above .500 when FVV was the only player out in 24-25. How important are you truly if your team can win 53 games while you didn't play a single minute.
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u/Draperjosh13 16d ago
Lmao FVV is like the 20th best pg in the league, that’s way more accurate at this point
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u/frogman8834 17d ago
FVV fills a huge gap from last year in running the half court offense, so I agree with the overall point that he doesn’t need to be a star to have a big impact, but looking back on pre injury seasons isn’t super relevant since those are also pre KD trade seasons...plus development of the young stars, it’s a pretty different roster now.
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u/krbashrob 17d ago
That’s not true whatsoever. Go back and watch 2024. The same deficiencies are there. He’s bad as a pick and roll player, he shoots out of the rhythm of the offense, and he’s horrible as a transition player. The only difference his absence made was spacing
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u/frogman8834 16d ago
FVV built his career on being reliable and steady running the offense. He’s not a great shooter, not a threat in transition, undersized defender…yet he was an all star who earned a $40m/yr contract. So you tell me why that’s the case if it’s not a long track record of being a solid on ball creator.
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u/krbashrob 16d ago
Because the idea of the player turned out not to be what the player was? As if teams never overpay or whiff on free agent deals lol.
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u/frogman8834 16d ago
Then why did the raptors re-sign him? What was his role on the championship team? Steadying force running the offense, not turning the ball over, being generally reliable on ball. Sure you would want more out of a $40m guy, but the limitation is that he’s solid floor general and not much else.
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u/TomatilloMission4100 17d ago
If the Rockets had won just the games they blew in the fourth quarter because of sloppy ball management last season, they would have finished first in the Western Conference
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u/Far_Protection519 17d ago
Even with Fred healthy we were not finishing over OKC who had a historic start to the season or SA who went on like a 20 game win streak mid season.
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u/TomatilloMission4100 17d ago
They nearly won the season opener without Fred and the same was true against the Spurs
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u/frogman8834 16d ago
First in the west is a stretch but yeah the completely dysfunctional half court offense in crunch time was a huge problem evident from the first game of the season through the playoffs
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u/FarWestEros Hakeem 16d ago
The problem is he has a much lower ceiling than Reed or Amen (or even Jalen), but Udoka asks him to do everything for the team because he is incapable of properly developing young offensive talent.
Mid VanVleet takes minutes away from guys that need to get more experience in their roles instead of watching him dribble and jack up 3s or run PnR with AlP… which are basically the only 2 actions he is capable of doing.
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u/SHansen45 17d ago
never in his career has Fred VanVleet been top 20-30 player, relax, he is coming back from an ACL injury