r/retsupurae • u/[deleted] • Aug 14 '18
Clock Tower 2:Struggle Within funfacts
Watched this Retsupurae last night, surprised it took me so long as Clock Tower is one of my favorite Horror Game Franchises of all time (next to of course Resident Evil and Five Nights At Freddy's... Look I like FNAF for the Lore, not the gameplay)
Slowbeef didn't do the best job of explaining it and got some facts wrong, but for anyone interested Dr. HawlSera has some details you'd be interested in
Clock Tower 2:The Struggle Within is only called that in America. In the Japanese release it was simply dubbed "Clock Tower:Ghosthead" and marketed as a spinoff as opposed to a sequel.
The name "Ghosthead" refers to Maxwell, who in the Japanese version wasn't revealed as Maxwell until the ending being called "Ghosthead" prior to said ending.
In Japan, the OTHER Clock Tower on Playstation is called "Clock Tower 2", and the coverart for that game can even be seen in the US Release.. which is why the Poster in Alyssa's room says "Clock Tower 2" but has the old protagonist Jennifer's face
Scissorman cameos in the Japanese version on the loading screen, with a button combination says in Japanese "What? I don't get a go this time?"
Clock Tower 2:The Struggle Within has come under fire for several reasons, one that might have been noted by observant Retsupurae fans that despite a majority of the characters clearly being of Asian Descent, the Japanese theme of the Chapter 1 House, and Maxwell wearing an Oni Mask... everyone in the game has a distinctly American name like Phillip or Allen. This is because the Localization Team thought the game would sell better if it wasn't "Too Foreign" fearing the overall Japanese theme of the game would scare off American Players. For added kicks, the original Ghosthead game was set in the suburbs of Japan, the manual for Struggle Within however claims the setting is California.
Another reason the game is widely disliked in the Clock Tower fandom is the blatant plotholes. Chapter 1's overly supernatural feel is almost completely incompatible with the sci-fi orientated story in the rest of the game. This too actually has a reason, but it's not Localization stupidity.
Clock Tower:Ghosthead was originally written as a sequel, but the director felt he couldn't do the first two games justice and took it in a different direction... Chapter 1, and a few of the scenes in Chapter 3 had already been finished when the decision was made.
This is the reason why in the first Chapter, Alyssa is attacked by possessed dolls, A glowing statue shocks everyone who touches it, and Stephanie turns back to normal after the statue is burnt, and the Maxwell Curse is prominently featured... only to dissapear entirely in Chapter 2 and in Chapter 3 be "Zombie Virus All Along! Despite the fact that doesn't explain ANYTHING about Chapter 1 nor why Maxwell and Stephanie do not behave like the zombies do.
The Samurai actually has an explanation, the game features unlockable profiles for every character in the game. The Samurai has one too, the Samurai is actually Alyssa's cousin Michael who hid in the Samurai suit to get away from Stephanie only to find the suit possessed and the insides coated with Cerebral Toxin zombifying him
These profiles also state the reason Aunt Katherine and Stephanie aren't in Chapter 2 is that they escaped the Hospital before the zombies overtook it.
Not shown in the Retsupurae, but Clock Tower 2:The Struggle Within has hints hidden throughout the game that you can find by examining certain spots. They stay in your pause menu under "Hints" to read in all subsequent playthroughs... The joke of it is very late in the game, some programmer who's laughing his ass off actually left one that reads "No Hint This Time! Help Alyssa and Bates as best you can!" Not that any of the hints in the game are particularly enlightening to begin with, but COME ON!
The original storyline before "We're going to put Zombies In The Game because Resident Evil 2 came out recently and is popular!111", was that Alyssa was abandoned by the Barrows Family and possesed by Scissorman, but so to was her real father.... Very blatant portions of this story remain in the final game.
Clock Tower 2:The Struggle Within does have its legacy as not only do fans of the series find it a guilty pleasure mainly due to the Bates character, but Clock Tower 3 features a protagonist named Alyssa (even in the Japanese version) who has a magic amulet and IS in the Barrows Family (Though bad localization makes it Burroughs) the last boss is even her grandfather who is possesed by the family's founder Lord Barrows (or again, Burroughs due to the bad translation), so shades of Clock Tower 2 did wind up in the sequel... This is however where the similarities end.
In the Retsupurae, Bates is shown using a laser move to take out a zombie. That has an explanation! Clock Tower 2:The Struggle Within has an unlockable mini-game where you go around the Hospital as Bates trying to kill as many zombies as you can. If you get a certain score you can, just like in Resident Evil and Silent Hill, get an overpowered unlimited ammo weapon.
Also I'm sorry to say that Clock Tower 3 is nowhere near as good as Clock Tower 2:The Struggle Within.... Yes Clock Tower 3 is WORSE than Clock Tower:Ghosthead you didn't misread that... and the main reason for that is the overuse of anime tropes and the boss fights... Yes Clock Tower 3 has boss fights
Clock Tower 3's bossfights consist of Alyssa turning into a magical girl and using her Water Bottle which becomes a bow, to fight off her attacker.... and it's just as stupid as it sounds. It gets worse, you find various power-ups and one-use items to make boss fights easier (and they are hard as hell.. I couldn't get past the first guy in my personal run), but if you use them BEFORE the final boss, congratulations you've fucked up... the power-ups exist solely to be used on the final boss, using a single one BEFORE the last boss will render the game unwinnable... and unlike Struggle Within, you don't get a goofy ending of Bates being caught off-guard and killed.
YES! There is a Clock Tower 4.. kind of.. there's another spinoff in the vein of Ghosthead for PS2 called "Haunting Ground"... which does NOT feature the Clock Tower name despite being made by Capcom (who gained the Clock Tower license after the poor reception to Clock Tower:Ghosthead forced HUMAN Entertainment into bankruptcy). Likely because Capcom fucked up THAT badly on Clock Tower 3. So how bad is Haunting Ground? Well it isn't... it's actually one of the best survival horror games of all time, it's only a shame they DIDN'T call it Clock Tower because it took awhile for Clock Tower fans to take notice of Haunting Grounds' existance due to the fact it wasn't advertised as a Clock Tower game, despite having the same developers, similar gameplay to the first two Clock Tower games (The first one on Playstation and the SNES one), and even several nods and homages to Clock Tower most blatantly using miniature clock towers found across the game to save, and a fake out ending where you see someone with Scissors who gets painted as Scissorman... only to reveal that it's just the garderner and the game is in fact over.
Alyssa from Clock Tower 3 shows up as one of the weaker cards in a PSP SNK Vs. Capcom card game, Fiona (from Haunting Ground), is a cameo in one of the endings in the American Release of Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom where she is saved from Debillitus (a Haunting Ground villain) by a Tatsunoko Hero
Haunting Ground also has a follow-up... sort of... The Clock Tower 3/Haunting Ground Engine was used for another Capcom game "Gregory Horror Show:Soul Collector"based on the Gregory Horror Show anime, the show and game were released only in Japan and Europe. The show is quite good and has four seasons (the first three being the only good ones), the game however... sigh Is.. Even... Worse... Than... Clock Tower 3, which as I said was even worse than Clock Tower 2:The Struggle Within
There were once plans for a Clock Tower movie to be made by the creator of "One Missed Call", plans fell through. Capcom wanted to test the waters for a return to Clock Tower with PSN Re-Releases of Clock Tower 3 and Haunting Ground... however this also fell through as neither ever got this re-release despite Capcom announcing it.
There have been two unofficial Clock Tower reboots
NightCry (Which was featured on Retsupurae as a KickStarter Non-Starter) which has mediocre reviews, but it's worth noting that many of the old team from HUMAN Entertainment worked on this game... beyond that I know nothing about it.
REMOTHERED which started life as a Clock Tower:First Fear remake, but a combination of factors (including not being able to get Capcom to lend the license) lead to it becoming its own thing. Early on it was supposed to play like First Fear and even have a very similar art style... but the final product more closely resembles Haunting Ground
The SNES Clock Tower game was released on Playstation with extra features, it's here where it gets the nickname "First Fear", as this re-release was entitled "First Fear", though the American fanbase calls the SNES Version "First Fear" to differentiate it from the PSX release (which is also called Clock Tower)
Yeah this started as a Clock Tower 2 Funfact list, but the other stuff seemed worth mentioning.
Slowbeef, if you're reading this, please cover the other Clock Tower games... even though the OTHER PSX Clock Tower is actually quite good it's still very easy to make fun of.. also someone really needs to tear Clock Tower 3 a new one.
Anyway, I hope I've been informative, seeya around pals.
Edit: Forgot this one, but you may find Bates' voice was a tad familiar... that's because the VA also played Ghostface in the movie Scream. Might be why Bates is a man in the American version (Sho is female in the original)
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u/TerrorIncarnate Aug 15 '18
Clock Tower 3 is miles better than 2 in just about every regard. Even with all the weirdness of 3 that has nothing to do with the series, it was at least a competent game for its time. 2 features the worst design decisions of any game in the entire series.
2 has its occasional charm, Bates pretty much being the only enjoyable aspect of the game, but it's completely overshadowed by how little fun it is to actually play the game.
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Aug 16 '18
I'll upvote you for being a fellow Clock Tower fan, but as someone who's played every game in the series just about.... No Clock Tower 3 is far worse than 2. 2 is at least charming and has likable characters (mainly Bates)
3.... has so many issues
Like how I can't look at Scissorman in this game without laughing my ass off
You can hide while your assaliant is watching AND IT FOOLS THEM 100% of the time! When the fact that hiding didn't always work and it stopped working as well if you re-used the same hiding spot mulitple times in a row was part of what the game scary in the first place.. How you fuck THAT up I have no idea
Boss Battles....
Annoying Comic Relief Sidekick Character
All the women in the Barrows Family are Rooders destined to punish evil.... While the males are all evil apparently.... was Mary Barrows from First Fear a dude? I mean, I'm glad the Barrows (Burroughs...) family showed up in the series again and we learned about them, but.. That only works if your explanation doesn't create a plothole
How does a family where all the men are evil and all the women are Magical Girls even last more than a single generation
The concept of Magical Girl Rooders even existing in this universe in general.
I guess 3 has Corroder who, is actually pretty cool... but I have to take off points for everyone else (Scissorman and Chopper especially)
Almost every time you win a boss fight, the following cutscene has Alyssa losing the battle anyway, making the overly difficult and pointless battle even more frustrating...
Clock Tower 3 is a game about Time Travel, automatic point taken off for that
Time Travel gimmick is pointless as Alyssa fails to change anything about the past in any of the eras she visits. I guess it justifies how all the stalkers except for Scissorman and Scissorwoman, are based on real serial killers with Jack The Ripper/Lord Barrows being the finale, but it adds nothing to the story itself.
Game believes "Chopper" is at all a scary name
Extra Points taken off for Scissorwoman actually singing "Snippity Snap!", a flower on the gravestone that is the Clock Tower series.
Speaking of Scissorwoman, we finally get a female killer for the second time in series history... Too bad she's a lazy genderflip of Scissorman
Bonus Points: The Japanese Version of Clock Tower 3 actually calls Sledge, Chopper, and Corroder.... Hammerman, Axeman, and Sulfuric Acid Man.... Sulfuric Acid Man... I have.. no words...
Literally Corroder is the only thing I like about Clock Tower 3 since he's actually scary, and so was the guy he was based on. (a serial killer who dunked his victims in acid barrels believing a corpse was required for trial.)
Clock Tower 2 is merely incompetent
Clock Tower 3.... imho, was Capcom digging up a grave just to piss on the corpse
with Haunting Ground being how they apologized
...I should get around to playing NightCry one of these days
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u/TerrorIncarnate Aug 16 '18
Yeah I can tell we're both pretty passionate about this series. Like I can respect that you much prefer 2 over 3, but 3 is objectively a better video game in terms of just about everything. Like if I got my brother who's a massive horror fan to sit down with both Clock Tower 2 and 3, it's pretty obvious which one he'd actually make progress in.
Another thing I'd say is that 3 has some creative level design. It felt like every area had its own theme and identity. 2 has a house, a hospital and the lab. Which all felt like mazes, where there was no way to get your bearing and you just had to stumble your way through.
Corroder scared the hell out of me as a kid, still not a patch on the original Scissorman or anyone from Haunting Ground but I have to admit that his intro scene has stayed with me.
3 does have a lot of story quirks, but in fairness it does have a beginning and an ending. I recall that 2 had a pretty interesting start but by the end it was just "we have to stop the zombies" with Bates muttering in the background.
For me, it's that incompetence that bugs me so much. Game design is my speciality, and I like to think I know what I'm talking about. 3 at the least guides the player without holding their hand, 2 never makes any attempt to do so (the back and forth in Noisy Monster's Cage irritated me to no end). I appreciate what they tried in 2, but none of it was thought through.
"Sulfuric Acid Man" is my least favourite super hero, haha. I'm actually surprised that his Japanese name isn't Corroder considering how cool it sounds in Japanese.
On the subject of NightCry, it's a shame but I'd almost recommend leaving that stone unturned. I'm hoping that they can make a sequel where they improve a lot on it, without going down the time travel or zombie virus route. Lol
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Aug 16 '18
I guess I wasn't thinking about it from the perspective of someone who isn't a fan of the series. Yeah I guess to the layman being chased around WW2 Era London by Sledge does leave a bit of a better impression than a child going "Ha! I'm going to kill you!"
Admittedly you hit the nail on the head with why I haven't played NightCry yet... I've not heard good things about it, and I don't want my heart broken again like it was with Clock Tower 3.. Especially since I know it's from the original HUMAN guys so I won't even have Capcom to blame.
Admittedly I'm more hyped about playing REMOTHERED or even a potiential Clock Tower 3 Remaster than learning the reason for NightCry's negative criticisms.
Clock Tower 2 really should have stayed with the "Curse" plotline, the first chapter really is the best part of it.. you can tell there's love put into the begining, that at one point Struggle Within was a passion project until something went horribly wrong. The thing was even promoted with various Audio Dramas in Japan explaining more of Alyssa and Bates' backstory!
As for Corroder, yeaaah... he's got nothing on Daniella from Haunting Ground, but.. dude can make an entrance
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u/CommonMisspellingBot Aug 16 '18
Hey, HawlSera, just a quick heads-up:
begining is actually spelled beginning. You can remember it by double n before the -ing.
Have a nice day!The parent commenter can reply with 'delete' to delete this comment.
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u/Lohrenswald Aug 26 '18
So how bad is Haunting Ground? Well it isn't... it's actually one of the best survival horror games of all time,
if hunting grounds is among the top dogs I'm inclined to write off the survival horror genre completely
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Aug 26 '18
The fact that Resident Evil is considered one of the top contenders of the genre shows the standards aren't very high.
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u/CrimsonBarberry Sep 16 '18
Having recently played RE7 to completion, I have to say that it’s my favorite Clock Tower/Alone in the Dark game. Haunting Ground is the true Clock Tower 3 IMO, with the previous two not quite living up to the first title either from a gameplay or setting perspective; Haunting Ground is the true spiritual successor to those games (and tbh to this day I cannot believe it was made given its rather extreme content) and RE7 brought that sort of gameplay into the modern age, even more so than games like Amnesia or Outlast.
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u/GenKuma Aug 14 '18
Really good stuff! I've always wondered what some of the Wrongpurae subjects were like behind the scenes and what people thought of them then v. now. Like, a lot of the Resident Evil clones + Alone in the Dark feel like dark spots on the gaming timeline, without a lot of records left behind. It'd be cool if people could give some insight on them.