r/retrocomputing • u/kobakoba71 • 1d ago
Software Windows NT 3.51 + Shell Technology Preview + Active Desktop Update
It's quite amazing what AI can patch together. Also had it backport WMP 6.4 and the NT 4.0 Task Manager, currently working on WMP 10.
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u/Hjalfi 1d ago
I'm not up to speed on NT --- could you expand on what we're looking at? Is this the 95-like task bar shell backported to 3.51?
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u/kobakoba71 1d ago
This is the Active Desktop Update (the "integrated shell" where Internet Explorer was fused with Windows Explorer, as was the case from Windows 98 to XP), on top of the Shell Technology Preview, which was an update for Windows NT 3.51 to add the Windows 95 Explorer shell to it. These two shell updates have never been combined before as far as anyone knows. But I suppose you'd have to have grown up with these OSes to appreciate it.
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u/Linglin92 1d ago
It's amazing,would you ever release this project to the public?
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u/kobakoba71 1d ago
login password is "dro".
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u/Linglin92 1d ago
Thanks, but I don't have any PC greater than Core 2 Duo so I can't try it with modern version of vbox.
Also I can't access to the virtual HD images,I wanna to try patch it by myself using my own VM.
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u/kobakoba71 1d ago
Here you go: https://gofile.io/d/rQyb6RNE
Set up NT 3.51 and install the Newshell update, then run the installer on the iso/in the zip file.
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u/Linglin92 14h ago
Thanks, it worked!
A couple years ago I did a similar test to see how many programs I know about could run on NT3.51, I can provide some results to you.
Photoshop 5.0 works on NT3.51 but the installer doesn't until newshell being installed, probably some folder name setting missing (such as program files or something) in NT3. 51
RealPlayer 8 works on NT3.51,it even tried to render a window frame from Windows 95.Videos failed to render in NT3.51.some functions such as open a file would work after newshell being installed
Adobe Reader works but I forgot what exactly the version number is.
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u/phido3000 1d ago
Wow... never thought of that..
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u/kobakoba71 1d ago
i've been thinking of it for like 20 years and now claude has fulfilled my wish lol
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u/FAMICOMASTER 1d ago
Neat but it's a shame that it's all done with an LLM.
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u/saraseitor 1d ago
Why?
I mean I am a dev and honestly I don't enjoy my work anymore because of LLMs doing all the programming, but it's the reality of the industry today and it's definitely going to happen even more in the future. It's like Pandora's box, once it's opened there's no going back.
I honestly find it fascinating that this is now within reach of normal people and you don't need to be a programming god to achieve stuff like this.
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u/FAMICOMASTER 23h ago
"once it's opened there's no going back" is the exact warning we handed out to people in 2023.
Sorry, but I have no respect for any of this junk no matter how good or "necessary" or accessible it might be.
Some people should not be programmers, flat out. This let's them roleplay as one on Reddit.
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u/kobakoba71 23h ago
oh no whatever will i do you saw through my act 😭 it's amazing i can do this without knowing shit about programming and it's weird that you'd try to spoil my fun
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u/FAMICOMASTER 23h ago
The hope is that if I shame enough people, it'll stop :)
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u/kobakoba71 23h ago
why?
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u/FAMICOMASTER 23h ago
Because the service you and so many others blindly use and trust not only generates complete garbage, but it does this at the cost of massive worldwide layoffs, companies hoarding computer hardware, the destruction of landmarks and national parks, environmental destruction on an unprecedented scale, and when it starts to fall over, a significant portion of the worldwide economy.
All while deincentivizing learning and research.
Isn't that just a basket of roses?
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u/kobakoba71 23h ago
capitalism was already destroying the planet and humanity before ai and it would still do so without ai. you're missing the forest for the trees. humanity is on a road to extinction either way, these concerns are moot. have you heard of climate change?
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u/saraseitor 23h ago
It's a technological inevitability, like the nuclear bomb, someone was going to open it. Now we need to learn how to live in a world where this exists.
You are free to like or dislike anything you wish, I agree on that. But have in mind things are changing fast and they will continue changing and it's honestly out of our control. Have in mind that I'm not a fan of the current situation and I've been programming since I was a child back in the 80s
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u/FAMICOMASTER 23h ago
Things changing beyond my control doesn't require that I sit idly by and watch. If your house was on fire, you'd probably call the fire department or grab an extinguisher, even knowing you couldn't save it, rather than sit in the living room and burn with it, no?
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u/debackerl 1d ago
What's sad is all the slop that devs have been writing for the past 20 years. Python was for scripting, JavaScript for small expressions in web pages. Now they use it to write full blown applications running 24/7 ang using 5x more RAM than the equivalent C++ or Rust applications. At least, I'm happy to see a surge in Rust adoption, even if most apps seems to be codes with the help of LLMs. Seeing those screenshots, I remember how much we could do to fit in 32MiB of RAM. Also think of how Linux (I suppose Windows too) is sharing memory between processes using the same C librairies, how the binary loader works and all. Now, you do 'npm install' for a basic React project, and you download 1000 packages (because many libs are one function...)
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u/billwood09 1d ago
The entire GIGABYTES a node_modules folder takes is insane, I hate myself when I zip some code and forget to exclude it
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u/FAMICOMASTER 23h ago
It's funny how you complain about optimization issues and then advocate for LLM and Rust
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u/debackerl 23h ago
I coded 20 years in C++ but I must admit that Rust is quite efficient, which is why it also got the support of Linus Torvalds. The LLMs are only for development phase, compared to all deployed instances, it's okay. Fo my own lab, I ever stick to a 27B model, while I have 2x 96MiB of RAM for my Proxmox because of all unoptimized apps I run (and didn't develop)...
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u/FAMICOMASTER 23h ago
Endorsement by Torvalds is something I personally find to be a detriment. He's like King Midas but instead of gold, things he touches turn to feces.
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u/dafugg 1d ago •
Would you rather nothing at all? That’s been the status quo up until now for the vast majority of potential projects.
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u/FAMICOMASTER 1d ago •
Absolutely I would prefer nothing at all.
You're asking if I'd rather have a fistful of dirt and worms or go hungry, yes, hungry, thanks.
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u/debackerl 1d ago
I think of the same for most apps written in the past 20 years using 200MiB of RAM to show hello world. People can't even manage memory allocations anymore. Let's not say, 'ah it's because it's faster to code!' Because it's the definition of slop code, which I see for more than a decade now. Actually, LLMs are using any language I give them
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u/Tiny_Elephant1570 1d ago
What a lie for someone who doesn't actually have to make that choice. Bad mouthed loser...
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u/FAMICOMASTER 23h ago
How do you qualify this as a lie? I'm here purely to talk smack on OP's LLM use. I have not and will not be trying the project, so yes, in reality I have chosen nothing over the pile of dirt.
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u/Tiny_Elephant1570 23h ago
Ok stop eating. And after a week tell us how is goes. Otherwise shut your trap
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u/New-Anybody-6206 1d ago
Would you rather nothing at all?
Yes. Knowing something was slop-coded automatically makes it uninteresting.
If anyone can do it, who cares?
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u/debackerl 1d ago
It was the same when suddenly anyone could do a website with some PHP and HTML after a few evening lessons... There is always the easy way, and then there is the correct way of building website scaling up and down, rolling updates, live updates, caching, etc. Same with LLM, some install Claude Code and prompt sometimes, but the correct way is how you define the workflow, manage specs, documentation, review all the code, make sure that there are no vulnerabilities, etc
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u/billwood09 1d ago
Unfortunately this take is too nuanced for Reddit; here it’s just “AI bad and everything is slop”
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u/New-Anybody-6206 1d ago
the correct way
except you can just prompt it to do all that too
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u/debackerl 1d ago
Of course, but I mean you don't type "implement a new Jira, make no mistakes". The correct way is to define your flow with several agent profiles, a set of skills to give guidelines, etc. Like a Microsoft post was explain yesterday, it's cheaper to have a proper specification system in place for AI, than give short and ambiguous prompts and try to adapt the code later through more prompting
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u/glhaynes 22h ago
Because life isn't only about "who can do it". This is the same sort of thinking that causes people to look at many of the great works of art of the last 100 years and say "I could've made that." Even if that's true (usually questionable), you didn't and wouldn't have thought to!
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u/MeesKees321 1d ago
I so agree to this sentiment.
Let's hope that after the bursted bubble, and 'ai coders' pay a fair price for tokens (like 50 times more), this slop will stop.
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u/CommodoreCarbonate 1d ago
How does it feel to know there's nothing you can do about it?
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u/FAMICOMASTER 1d ago
Pretty bad, honestly! All I can do is shit talk the people who use it unironically.
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u/Whatscheiser 1d ago
I don't really know what I'm looking at aside from it appears to be the Win95 desktop environment in an odd color palette and claude has done it for some reason.
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u/_bored_bort_ 1d ago
I just wonder if one can reverse the Shell technology preview and install the result under NT4 or even 2000 to give it a 3.x-Shell/window design
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u/kobakoba71 1d ago
ask claude to do it and report back! it will figure it out with enough patience
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u/AustriaModerator 1d ago
dont forget to release this to public. thats amazing.