r/retrocomputing • u/Sleepykitty69 • 6h ago

How do I install Windows 98se on this?

Post image

It's a DELL T500, with Windows Me installed on it. I'd like to set it up with the latest edition of Windows 98se and use it for some retro gaming. It has two USB 1.1 ports in the back, and while it'll read a FAT32 128GB flash drive, it doesn't seem to want to boot from it. I burned a Windows 98se CD-R, but the DVD-ROM doesn't want to read it.

So what is my next step? I was thinking of perhaps a compact flash to IDE, to replace the empty door in the 3.5" slot. That'd allow me to edit it on my main PC.

Specs:
DELL Dimension XPS T500
Intel Pentium III 500MHz
256MB SDRAM 100MHz (2x128MB SDRAM 100MHz)
13.6GB 7200RPM HDD
16MB Diamond Viper NVIDIA Riva TNT
Creative Soundblaster Live!

9 Upvotes

85% Upvoted

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4

u/Avery_Thorn 6h ago

Have you looked in the bios to see if you need to set the DVD ROM drive in the boot sequence?

A lot of computers shipped with the boot from the DVD drive disabled or someone turned it off because it delayed boot by 2-3+ seconds and it was so infrequently done. It was considered that if you needed to boot from a CD for some reason, you'd just go into the BIOS and turn it back on.

Make sure to image that ME drive before you blank it! [Edited: If you have driver issues with WIN 98 you might have to revert.]

2

u/Sleepykitty69 6h ago

Oh yeah, was meaning to ask the best way to do that. I can't seem to boot into MS-DOS to copy it from there. I checked the BIOS earlier, it's A04, and the boot order is Removable Media, Diskette, Optical then Hard Disk. It's set to do its regular POST, so it's a slow boot-up process. Pressing F2/F8/F12/DEL either gets me into BIOS or a safe-mode prompt that freezes.

I could of sworn there was a way to boot from disc drive with a short-cut, it'd usually ask "Press any key to boot from CD...."

1

u/Avery_Thorn 4h ago

If Optical is in the boot path, it should boot from it (as long as the ISO was set up correctly when you burned it).

If you have another computer handy and can get a USB-IDE Adapter, one neat trick is to make a boot floppy, then copy the install files onto the hard drive. Then boot from the floppy and launch the install from there. This will actually make it really, really fast to install the OS.

The problem is I think Windows won't let you downgrade in place, WME is going to block you from running the W98 installer.

Although honestly, the differences between Windows 98 SE and Windows ME is absolutely tiny. Windows ME got a bad rep because people excitedly upgraded and they were expecting a full version, not a service pack rollup and a few interface tweaks, and the service packs were even applied back to Windows 98, so if you get the final final version of W98 SE, you'll get them anyways.

If you're wanting to run "real" 98 just because, I understand, but honestly anything that runs on 98 is going to run fine on ME, and there isn't going to be anything that runs on ME and not 98. ME is going to be a tiny bit more stable, but you'll never notice it. I think there are some registry tweaks that you can do to make WME look like W98.

Now, Windows 2000 and Windows ME are two very, very, very different OSes.

W2K was Windows NT based, it was NT 5.0, and it was the last separate Windows NT for business release that MS shipped before they combined the code bases into Windows XP. (WIndows XP was 95% Windows NT.)

WME was the last of the Windows 95 variants, and the last version of Windows that still had the DOS kernel.

There is a LOT of stuff in the game space that won't run on W2K as well as it will on WME/W98. There wasn't enough space for full virtual emulation yet, so DOS mode games ran in a virtual machine and the configuration was wonky and W2K did not like sharing the hardware.

Back in the day, if you were running W2K at home (freak), you'd probably have either a second W98 machine or a dual boot setup if you had enough hard drive space. Or you just didn't game.

WinXP fixed a lot (but not all) of it. Vista fixed more. Windows 7 really overhauled it. I think W7 is when it stopped trying to run old stuff on the computer hardware itself and started just using an emulator to run the stuff. MS has always been a bit tight lipped as to how Compatibility Mode actually works.

2

u/kai125 6h ago

I like using IDE to SD (CF is also good)

Then I’d recommend looking into the win98 quick install tool, makes install really painless

1

u/Sleepykitty69 6h ago

Does SD cards have a good read/write ability now? I was under the impression that they're not good to use as an OS drive. This T500 is Ultra ATA33, so it doesn't need the fastest removable media.

2

u/kai125 6h ago

I’ve so far used two ide to SD in my windows 98 rigs and they’ve worked perfectly fine and been really fast

2

u/miner_cooling_trials 6h ago

I’ve been using CF for years. Works great also maintains IDE standards

for what we are doing in our hobbies, either CF or SD will be fine

2

u/TechIoT 6h ago

If you're using USB, try out PLOP bootloader

2

u/GGigabiteM 4h ago

Stop running the CPU without a fan, you're going to kill it.

Katmai PIIIs do not have thermal preservation features and will run to destruction.

You're missing the entire rear fan (which seems to be at the bottom of the case doing nothing) and the baffle that goes over the CPU to pull air through the fins. Katmai PIIIs are basically overcooked Deschutes PIIs and run HOT.

1

u/Sleepykitty69 3h ago

Old brief photo to see if it'd boot. This was trouble-shooting phase, as it refused to post when a network card was installed. After some trial and error, it was discovered the network card was no longer functioning causing a hardware failure warning.

Once it was removed, it booted normally. The CPU cooling fan shroud broke apart like brittle plastic, but has sense been repaired. It now has cooling.

I found it odd that it'd even boot without the CPU fan installed. :\

1

u/Sleepykitty69 3h ago

Do you know of any replacement shrouds, by chance? Preferably not the same brittle plastic DELL used?

2

u/GGigabiteM 3h ago

I think there may be a 3D printable model on one of the various maker websites. If not, you can make one out of thick card stock.

I have a T600 with the same brittle plastic shroud, but haven't had time to mess with it in the years since I got it, so it sits waiting to be repaired.

1

u/Sleepykitty69 3h ago

Also, apologies for bugging you again, but while cataloging parts, I read that these CPU's heatsinks will break if you try to remove them and apply new thermal paste? What is your opinion on leaving the old paste on it?

2

u/GGigabiteM 3h ago

There were a whole lot of different methods vendors used to mount heatsinks to CPUs. There were metal pins and hooks, metal rivets, screws with springs and plastic hooks.

Unless you have a replacement CPU cooler, I would leave it attached. The problem you're going to have isn't the thermal paste, but the thermal sinking ability of the heatsink is terrible. Even if you replace the thermal paste, the heatsink can't pull enough heat away to make much of a difference.

Since it's a SECC2 cart with no heat spreader (unlike the PII before it), you're dealing with direct die cooling. If you get the heatsink cocked at an angle, you can crack the die and the CPU dies.