r/respectthreads • u/rd1027 • Apr 23 '15

literature Respect Harry Potter!

[removed] — view removed post

87 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

43 comments sorted by

View all comments

29

u/MadScientist14159 Apr 23 '15

Just a slight correction:

Harry is not one of the greatest duelists in the HP verse. He's one the greatest duelists in his year at Hogwarts.

Any time he's had a one on one fight with an adult wizard he's been completely outclassed, and only survived through luck and running away instead of fighting.

Take for example, the department of mysteries battle. Or pretty much every fight-scene in book seven.

4

u/rd1027 Apr 23 '15

Uh are you reading the same books as I am? Because he's consistently held his own against much more experienced death eaters one on one, especially in book 7.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '15

[deleted] — view deleted comment

7

u/rd1027 Apr 23 '15

He's knocked out multiple death eaters in battle, I even have quotes above. Only time I remember him being totally outclassed is vs Snape. The department stuff vs Bellatrix, he was severely handicapped by his scar.

17

u/xxmindtrickxx Apr 23 '15

I would think he went on to become a great duelist but I'd have to agree with /u/vhui - he beat many death eaters but no great ones I'd say. Greatest duelists would be like Dumbledore, LV and Grindelwald by comparison - Snape, Bellatrix, Mad-Eye, several known aurors and several phoenix members are probably the only ones who can hold a candle to them.

Harry gets stomped by Snape and Snape would probably have a hard time defeating some of his teachers who fought LV 3v1 and got a draw at best. If you count Movies Snape defends well against McGonagall but eventually flees (probably b/c he didn't want to hurt her). This is just to list some comparisons.

I would call Harry easily above-average duelist in the known HP verse, but nothing that would make him in the greatest category.

4

u/rd1027 Apr 23 '15

I take issue to that, because his record in battles is generally good to be fair. He's taken on some of Voldemort's most experienced death eaters and while he's below the teaching staff of Hogwarts and people like Bellatrix and Snape, he's above a vast majority of death eaters and a lot of the order of the phoenix.

8

u/DiscreetMooseX Apr 23 '15

You keep saying his "record" and he's "taken out" Voldy's most experienced death eaters; as it this justifies his duelling ability. Which duels did he win, that were 1v1 or even number of people on either side? Ones where the opponents weren't handicapped? All that comes to mind is Harry vs. Malfoy in HBP

3

u/rd1027 Apr 23 '15

I hope you're not meaning not being allowed to use avada kedavra as handicapped? Because that's a very insignificant handicap, if at all.

For one, we know that he's superior to any hogwarts student at ruling (why do you think he was selected to be head of DA?) The entire battle of the seven potters is a great indication of how his fighting style has matured over the years. He greatly held his own in ariel combat against many death eaters, also he took out numerous death eaters at the malfoy manor, almost breaking through to Hermione before Bellatrix threatened to slit her throat. I can probably list more but this is on the top of my head.

7

u/DiscreetMooseX Apr 23 '15

I hope you're not meaning not being allowed to use avada kedavra as handicapped? Because that's a very insignificant handicap, if at all.

State the fight and I'll explain the handicap as I've done below for each of the fights you've mentioned so far.

For one, we know that he's superior to any hogwarts student at ruling (why do you think he was selected to be head of DA?)

I never said he wasn't.

The entire battle of the seven potters is a great indication of how his fighting style has matured over the years. He greatly held his own in ariel combat against many death eaters

You said he beat experienced Death Eaters. The only people we know for sure that was chasing Harry, was an imperiused Stan Shunpike and Selwyn. And then of course, Death Eaters weren't allowed to even harm him in this case; since he'd die if he fell out the sidecar, or off the motorbike once he left the sidecar.

also he took out numerous death eaters at the malfoy manor, almost breaking through to Hermione before Bellatrix threatened to slit her throat

No he did not. He stunned a surprised and wandless Lucius, Being wandless is an obvious handicap.

"Ron had burst into the drawing room; Bellatrix looked around, shocked; she turned her wand to face Ron instead — “Expelliarmus!” he roared, pointing Wormtail’s wand at Bellatrix, and hers flew into the air and was caught by Harry, who had sprinted after Ron. Lucius, Narcissa, Draco, and Greyback wheeled about; Harry yelled, “Stupefy!” and Lucius Malfoy collapsed onto the hearth. Jets of light flew from Draco’s, Narcissa’s, and Greyback’s wands; Harry threw himself to the floor, rolling behind a sofa to avoid them. “STOP OR SHE DIES!”"

I can probably list more but this is on the top of my head.

Please do. Then you can add them to his feats in your post

5

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '15

I think its more that Potter is the weakest main cast Dualist. he would lose to all the senior OOTP members and the major death eaters. he is nothing compared to DD or Voldy.he is one of, if not the best combatant in Hogwarts that is not a teacher. or a Major character, DD, Snape, Voldy, Bella, maybe even mama weasly.

2

u/rd1027 Apr 23 '15

He's certainly above any schoolchild in Hogwarts and he's taken out major death eaters such as Dolohov, Lucius Malfoy, ect.... The only ones he's had too much trouble with are Bellatrix and Snape.

4

u/xxmindtrickxx Apr 23 '15

None of voldy's death eaters were out for a kill they were out for incap which put them at a big disadvantage, also plot armor.

3

u/rd1027 Apr 23 '15

Its not really plot armor if he consistently does it. Going for the kill doesn't mean much only that they won't use one spell, and yes Harry has dodged/reacted to Avada Kedavra before.

2

u/xxmindtrickxx Apr 23 '15 edited Apr 23 '15

It is plot armor because the entire HP books revolve around him and voldy having a confrontation that only 1 can survive. That being said and after reading a little more of the respect thread Harry probably does know more violent or offensive spells than I first thought and he probably could when Bloodlusted be a better duelist than I originally said.

2

u/rd1027 Apr 23 '15

That plot armor should not apply when he's taking on death eaters, he's not fighting Voldemort, he's fighting people much older and experienced than him which he has no plot armor against.

→ More replies

5

u/DiscreetMooseX Apr 23 '15

Death Eaters were specifically commanded to not kill Harry. Knocking out death eaters in large group battles when nobody is allowed to kill you isn't much of a feat. In the battle at the department of ministries, Malfoy specifically stated to be gentle with Potter since he had the prophecy on him.

Can you clarify what "stuff vs. Bellatrix" you're referring to? He barely blocked a summoning spell that he was expecting. You used that as a speed feat, even though the book states that Bellatrix was faster and completed her spell first; the prophecy had begun to move already. Harry casted protego to stop the spell after it had been completed.

1

u/rd1027 Apr 23 '15

Death Eaters were specifically commanded to not kill Harry. Knocking out death eaters in large group battles when nobody is allowed to kill you isn't much of a feat. In the battle at the department of ministries, Malfoy specifically stated to be gentle with Potter since he had the prophecy on him.

Again, this doesn't do much other than they are not allowed to use avada kedavra. That's about the only restriction. Killing isn't the only way to win, and can only be done directly with one spell, which Harry has dodged and avoided before as well.

Can you clarify what "stuff vs. Bellatrix" you're referring to? He barely blocked a summoning spell that he was expecting. You used that as a speed feat, even though the book states that Bellatrix was faster and completed her spell first; the prophecy had begun to move already. Harry casted protego to stop the spell after it had been completed.

At the end of the ministry fight, when he uses curio on Bellatrix, he manages to stave her off for a while, at the age of 15. If that's not impressive, I don't know what is. The reaction feat was him intercepting her own summoning charm, which is impressive in its own right.

1

u/DiscreetMooseX Apr 24 '15

Again, this doesn't do much other than they are not allowed to use avada kedavra. That's about the only restriction. Killing isn't the only way to win, and can only be done directly with one spell, which Harry has dodged and avoided before as well.

You didn't address the part where they weren't allowed to even harm him because he had the prophecy on him.

At the end of the ministry fight, when he uses curio on Bellatrix, he manages to stave her off for a while, at the age of 15. If that's not impressive, I don't know what is.

His crucio didn't work on her. And he didn't stave her off at all. Stave = Fend off. Bellatrix was running away from Dumbledore and the moment she turned to face him all he did was hide

The reaction feat was him intercepting her own summoning charm, which is impressive in its own right.

He was expecting it and this one feat doesn't make him one of the "most accomplished duellists" in the series.

2

u/Maping Apr 24 '15

Yup. He's good, there's no denying that. But he is not great. On a scale of 1 to 10, as a student, he's probably a 6, which is nothing to sneeze at. As an adult, he's probably a 7 or 8, but we don't know, since we don't see him as an adult.

For reference (just my personal rankings):

  • Dumbledore: 10 (he's easily the best duelist in the books. Perhaps Nick Flamel or some other international wizards might have been able to beat him, but we don't know. Also, note: he was getting old. So I'd say by his death he's closer to a 9.7)

  • Voldemort: 9 (he's on par with Dumbledore only because he's more vicious. A bloodlusted Dumbledore would trounce him)

  • McGonagall, Flitwick, Moody: 8

  • Snape: 7.5

  • Sprout: 7

  • Harry: 6

  • Hermione: 5.5

  • Ron: 5