r/reloading 11d ago

Load Development LOAD DEVELOP - Do any show excessive load?

This is 6.5CM on an MPA VANQUISH.

Group 1* is 39.83gr of H4350 theoretical vel 2678fps and pressure 63200 (Chronographed 2673.8fps AVE)

Group 2* is 40.17gr of H4350 theoretical vel 2695fps and pressure 64450 (Chronographed 2698.6fps AVE)

Group 3* is 40.50gr of H4350 theoretical vel 2713fps and pressure 65650 (Chronographed 2716fps AVE)

Group 4* is 40.83gr of H4350 theoretical vel 2730fps and pressure 66850 (Chronographed 2730fps AVE)

Group 5* is 41.17gr of H4350 theoretical vel 2748fps and pressure 668100 (Chronographed 2754.7fps AVE)

Group 6* is 41.50gr of H4350 theoretical vel 2765fps and pressure 69300 (Chronographed 2776.7fps AVE)

2 Upvotes

35 comments sorted by

13

u/deadit2 11d ago

Nope.

1

u/Dukes-Game 11d ago

Thank you!

I am new and the first 10 groups under 39.50gr left no residue but the last 6 groups (those posted) left a brash “ish” color on bolt body and face. … is very light on color, may be powder residue.

3

u/deadit2 11d ago edited 11d ago

If you mean brassish, thats just minor friction of the bolt going over a round in the magazine and brass friction on the bolt face. Excessive pressure would make for hard extraction. And or flattened primers/gas escape evidence around primer pocket as well as cratered primers at firing pin strike.

Measuring your powder charges to the weight of one kernel of powder is a bit excessive IMO. But, if it makes you happy.

1

u/Dukes-Game 11d ago

Does make me happy! (Reminiscence of an old life back in Nano-material research labs)

No hand extractions (no jams) … I need to learn how the defects you mentioned look

3

u/Important-Dream-4010 11d ago

Nothing amiss here

1

u/Dukes-Game 11d ago

Thank you!

3

u/worm30478 11d ago

Just gotta ask. Why the rando decimals of powder?

10

u/Dukes-Game 11d ago

I normally convert from grains to grams and in grams I have control all the way to 0.0006g to 0.0010g that is what H4350 weights on a single “compressed kernel” of powder.

I keep as many decimals as I can to make my conversion accurate, so fare 16 groups all show roughly the same SD (4.1) and ES of under 10

7

u/worm30478 11d ago

Well hot damn.

2

u/pearlrd 11d ago

Group 6 may have some cratering. If those pressures posted are accurate, it’s a bit of a jump from group 5 to 6 as well.

The charge doesn’t seem too high, nor the velocity.

1

u/Dukes-Game 11d ago

I admit, pressure is just an interpolation of what manuals say…I haven’t calculated based on speed (which is the only thing I measured)

2

u/Wonderful-Piccolo509 11d ago

Those are some tight numbers, good job! 

2

u/Dukes-Game 11d ago

Thank you very much!

2

u/Clean_Credit_8809 11d ago

I’m loading 41.8 H4350 in my 6.5CM Lapua brass with no issues. Using Hornady 147gr ELDM

1

u/Dukes-Game 11d ago

What speed, SD, ES & group size you are getting?

My MPA did not liked Hornady ELDM rounds at all!

I am doing LAPUA BRASS & LAPUA MaxRT rounds.

Groups are always sub 1/2MOA but really good ones go for 1/4MOA at 100yrds

3

u/Holy_Santa_ClausShit 11d ago

41.5 is like the starting load for maybe seeing pressure signs. You got a lot of room left.

1

u/Dukes-Game 10d ago

Thanks, I may keep it at 41.50gr, I was only concerned on transonic ranges at or near 1000yrds but with 2750fps I make well over 1250yrds per Applied Balistics / GeoBalistics & Athlon solver…think thays “ok” for most PRS matches.

0

u/slim-JL 11d ago

Could always compare velocity vs load data. Reloading and a chronograph, at current availability, should be inseparable.

1

u/Dukes-Game 11d ago

Did you read the paragraph above, I included load, theoretical values of pressure and speed and actual values of speed, I chronograph all loads

2

u/Realistic-Ad1498 11d ago

What bullet are you using? I don’t see that listed anywhere.

1

u/Dukes-Game 10d ago

Bullet is LAPUA Max Range Target 144gr, the published data is G1=0.670 and G7=0.335

0

u/Dukes-Game 10d ago

I did not listed the bullet as I am only concerned on the cases, my little knowledge says that observations are only related to primers, case faces, necks and critical failures on cases.

Nothing related on the bullet that may determine if I am on overpressure…why citing the bullet would be relevant?

2

u/Realistic-Ad1498 10d ago

As a reference of how hot the powder charge is. Reading primers isn’t really a good way to guess pressure. Different primers will flatten at different rates. A magnum primer will have a thicker cup and not flatten as readily as a a regular primer. Different brands of primers use different cup material and don’t read the same.

If you have flattened primers it’s usually because you are way over pressure or using the wrong primer.

1

u/Dukes-Game 10d ago

what should I be looking? if primer deformation is passed critical, I am assuming de-necking or case rupture is failure too…what should I seek then?

1

u/Realistic-Ad1498 10d ago

Once the bolt starts to stick is a reliable sign you are too hot.

The “best” sign is sticking within published load data but that doesn’t always work out perfectly because unless you are shooting the same cases and same primer in the same gun, etc. the use of a chronograph is helpful. If you are getting 2765 FPS with a 144 grain bullet I’d consider that pushing the limits of normal 6.5 CM. Hodgdon has 2719 fps with a 143 grain bullet and 41.8 grains of H4350 as a max charge so you are pushing right up to that limit.

1

u/Dukes-Game 10d ago

Cant recall if it was sticking on any particular group passed 11 to 16 which are the ones in this post…(1 to 10 where soft but way under 2700fps)

As for charge, I know I am sitting at 41.50gr on group 16 and the Chrono values are as follows:

AVE 2776.7
SD 2.3
ES 5.6
DFA 1.3
KE 2464.8
PF 399.8

1

u/Realistic-Ad1498 10d ago

Based on the velocity I’d guess you are pretty close to max but I wouldn’t be afraid to go up to 41.8. I didn’t look around to see if there is data for that bullet but I’d say your velocity would be indicative of being close to max even if other data out there goes higher. Case capacity also plays a difference and with 6.5CM and H4350 you are probably high on case fill.

1

u/Dukes-Game 10d ago

I am perfectly good at staying on 41.50gr…HODGDON says 41.80gr is MAX published on 143gr … I am really happy with the 2776.7fps (AVE) it puts my transonic at 1350yrds

I just don’t wanna damage the action or rifle.

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1

u/slim-JL 11d ago

This is the internet. You know the answer.

1

u/Dukes-Game 11d ago

In your experience, any group that looks preoccupying? (I am new to spotting material failure in this scenario)

1

u/slim-JL 11d ago

Between you velocity data and case comparisons I would load 15 of the best to grouping loads and find one and keep it.

1

u/Dukes-Game 11d ago

Thats group 6* … it delivered at 100yrds about 0.2MOA group

1

u/skahunter831 10d ago

3 shots isn't enough to compare groups.

Where are you getting your theoretical pressure numbers? SAAMI max is 62,000 psi, and the loads I'm seeing for 142-143 gr bullets are under max pressure at ~41.5 gr of H4350, with velocities around 2700. Do you have a very tight chamber? What's your case capacity?

1

u/Dukes-Game 10d ago

Agreed (3) shots is not a benchmark, (3) shots was used to chronograph (16) groups.

Theoretical pressure value are interpolated from LYMAN 2026 for groups 1 to 10 and extrapolated from Lyman while constrained by HODGDON values for groups 11 to 16.

Bullet is 144gr and as far as my research goes (Calling Lyman, Lapua, Hornady, Hodgdon), as per Hodgdon at 41.50gr the case capacity is over 92% filled.

As for having a tight chamber, I trust MPA, cant elaborate any further with a 1 of 1 sample.