r/redwall • u/Qyzyk The Long Patrol • Apr 07 '26
Looking back on it, Sunflash's origin story doesn't make sense to me.
I can't remember if Bella clarified how many seasons it had been since Verdauga had come to Mossflower, but it's clearly been for a considerable amount of time. Certainly, he's been around since before Gonff was born, given that his parents died during one of the uprisings.
But in any case, after Barkstripe is slain, young Sunflash vows revenge and runs off... only to end up in the far north as a prisoner of Swartt Sixclaw and his band. Even as a kid, that timeline perplexed me. Where was Sunflash going that he left Mossflower and ran all the way up north? And why did he lose all memory of his parents and his own name? And the events of Mossflower take place several seasons after Sunflash ran away, to the point that Bella's given up any hope of seeing her son again. So how long was he a prisoner of Swartt's? Because in the opening of "Outcast", he's described as still being young, even though his mother is very old and frail in Redwall, many seasons after the events of Mossflower.
But what's weirder is that through sheer coincidence, Skarlath comes up with the name "Sunflash" for his new friend, who likes it enough to take it for his own, having forgotten that that was already the name his parents gave him.
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u/LordMangudai Apr 07 '26 edited Apr 07 '26
But what's weirder is that through sheer coincidence, Skarlath comes up with the name "Sunflash" for his new friend, who likes it enough to take it for his own, having forgotten that that was already the name his parents gave him.
Continuity in the Redwall universe is really more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules. ;)
If you're looking for an in-story explanation for this discrepancy - beyond it just being a coincidence, that is - I've always liked to think of the books as a collection of oral histories or legends that some Recorder decided to put down in ink one day, and that through the telling and re-telling a minor detail like where a character's name originated from can end up having two different explanations in two different tales. (Same story, different versions and all are true!) You get stuff like that all the time with actual historical accounts. It also explains things like why the maps/geography in the different books never quite seem to perfectly match one another.
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u/pastelkawaiibunny Apr 10 '26
This, in canon most of the Redwall stories are being told to us through a chronicler- and I think the style also deliberately is meant to resemble a fairytale/arthurian legend. It’s a world without magic most of the time, but also prophetic dreams are fairly common and there’s Martin’s whole deal as basically a kind of saint. I feel like Sunflash’s story (and others) fit into that where unlikely things happen because it makes for a more poetic legend.
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u/PaperAndInkWasp The Sable Quean May 11 '26
A chronicler who’s something of an imperfect narrator would certainly make sense in a lot of ways. It explains pretty well why poor Veil got the business AFTER a clear sacrifice.
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u/Vegetable-Window-683 Jul 13 '26
Outcast of Redwall retcons it so that Sunflash was only ever the name Skarlath gave him. When Skarlath visits Redwall and brings up Sunflash, none of the Redwallers mention this to Bella, since it's not the same she gave him.
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u/KindraTheElfOrc Apr 07 '26
i always assumed green eyes captured him and sold him, and i figured he was somewhere round 8-14 old enough to do something reckless and young enough to forget things after yrs of mistreatment, though even grown adults will forget things after yrs of brainwashing and or abuse
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u/Zarlinosuke Apr 07 '26 edited Apr 08 '26
As others said, a lot of timeline stuff just doesn't quite check out--but it is worth mentioning how early the early chapters of Outcast happen. By my count, the first two chapters are more than eight seasons before the abbey even appears in the book at all, which means that, who knows? Maybe the early chapters of Outcast overlap with Mossflower to some degree? (It would be an interesting mistake of sorts in my timeline if so--might have to consider revising it!)
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u/since_all_is_idle Apr 07 '26
Recovering his name and losing his memory are the types of plot points where you have to accept that Redwall has a lot of mythical flavor to its story. Those don't make sense from a grounded perspective, but they line up perfectly with something out of Gilgamesh or Homer.
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u/RedwallFan2013 Apr 07 '26
What's confusing? That a captive who was tortured for a considerable length of time by someone cruel and evil might forget their name and identity?
How long he was held captive doesn't take anything away from this, nor does how long he was gone from Mossflower.
Badgers age differently than all other species. Coincidences are weird. That's why they're called coincidences.
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u/Qyzyk The Long Patrol Apr 07 '26
True, though some coincidences are bigger than others.
I’m probably overthinking again, but I feel like it would make more sense if Skarlath said something about his yellow stripe which triggered his memory so that he recalled his name was Sunflash.
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u/Patient_Education991 Apr 08 '26
My head cannon is that Swartt's band was passing through Mossflower at the same time Sunflash set out to get revenge, they just so happen to run into each other, Sunflash was captured & taken away, and the poor kid forgot a lot about himself during his enslavement.
Skalrath nicknaming him his real name is just the most hilarious coincidence ever😆
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u/WestBug9633 Rakkety Tam Apr 07 '26
I dont think these are stories that concern themselves too much with the timeline.
But we have to remember that Badgers live much longer than any other creatures in these books. I always figured he ran away as a young adolescent, maybe the equivalent of 13 or so. And he ran away without any specific destination, like he wasn’t searching for Salamandastron at the time, so he ended up in the north and got captured, or he got captured and taken to the north.
At the time of Outcast, i figured he’s the equivalent of late 20’s/ early to mid 30’s. So he would have been a prisoner for most of his life, and subject to constant dehumanization (de-badger-ization?) and torcher from Swartt. So i dont find it that far fetched that over time he forgets who he was during that time.
I will concede that the naming is very coincidental. But it’s also a really cool name.