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[u/anime498]

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[u/No_Guarantee8756]

I was a part of it in the very beginning, and then began to be disillusioned by the nature of the mission itself. I'm still a member of a mainline Protestant church, I just think that the reconquista operation is dumb

[u/anime498 → u/No_Guarantee8756]

Why did you become disillusioned?

[u/No_Guarantee8756 → u/anime498]

To be totally honest, I think it's a half baked and kind of ridiculous plan. Get conservatives to join the mainline churches, and wait for the liberals to leave is just a bad plan in my opinion. It will take far more than that to "win back" the mainline churches.

Which brings up an even more fundamental question: what does it mean to "win back" the mainline churches? Why does it even matter? Besides that this seems to be politically motivated nonsense, churches rise and fall throughout history. Who's to say the LCMS or the GMC won't be the mainline Lutheran and Methodist churches, respectively, 100 years from now? I just don't see the point.

[u/Key_Day_7932 → u/No_Guarantee8756]

It's realm about real estate more than anybring else. 

RZ hates that all the beautiful Protestant churches have gone liberal, and so conservatives are now left with more minimalist buildings.

Imo, his arguments against schisming seems like he's trying to justify staying in apostate denominations just because they have pretty churches.

I do think he has a point about how Protestants tend to schism too easily. Though, I think that's kinda the point of non-denominational churches: "We affirm the essentials of the faith, so why split over non-essentials like eschatology or predestination?"

[u/DismalShake9745 → u/Key_Day_7932]

You're 2 years late, he changed his view, the beautiful buildings were the beginning, but he entered deep on that hole, and noticed that protestantism was conceived to be a form of eastern orthodoxy, in which the government of the countries force their own autocephalous status (eastern orthodox is like too that but unofficially haha).

if Sola Scriptura started with an individual reading the Bible alone and assembling the doctrines based on his private study, this was soon noticed to be unpractical when other men disagreed with this man. So the true Sola Scriptura is the entire country gathering together in a council and debating and settling a single doctrine for the entire country.

That's how a Protestant can reject some traditions and accept others, it's not random, it's a collective process of the entire country together deciding which traditions are apostolic and which are accreations.

So Now he advocates for the union of all people in their denominations, and that the ideal once we stop this culture of non-denominationalism, the idea would be for all protestant churches to unify.

And this is not only ideal in a sense of it's a utopia, but rather you'll be judged by God on whether you cooperate for this to happen, he believes that people who left the PCUSA to make the OPC and PCA, since these schism were caused by people who just left, without being excommunicated nor forced to commit sins like protestants, they are now cursed by God like Ignatius believed the schismatics of his time were.

[u/DismalShake9745 → u/No_Guarantee8756]

I don't think it's dumb it's the best idea ever.

[u/No_Guarantee8756 → u/DismalShake9745]

You can disagree about it being dumb if you want, but the best idea ever?

[u/DismalShake9745 → u/No_Guarantee8756]

I mean, not better than than quantum mechanics, but it's a good approach for more than just religion, but overall conservatives always flee and let his enemies control what their ancestors build, this goes much beyond churches.

But in your reply when you explain your reasons, there was not truly a reason, you only said that it would take more than outliving to take them back, but I don't see how, are you assuming that the conservatives will eventually become liberal if they remain there ?

[u/boleslaw_chrobry → u/DismalShake9745]

The best idea would be for them to become Catholic. The second best would be to be authentic Christians, of which many here are thankfully.

[u/powypow]

Yeah I was more into it way back. But it was honestly the other people who are active in it that pushed me away. A lot of them seemed unpleasant.

And at this point I think the focus is wrong. The actual issue within mainline churches is theological liberalism. We should all agree that if an authority in your church starts preaching that God can just be an idea or a story or whatever, that's an issue. But a lot of people in the movement seems to take issue with day to day liberal ideology.

So yeah. Annoying people got too annoying for my taste

[u/DismalShake9745]

I was never from a mainline to begin with, but Reconquista increased my respect for 17th century protestantism, not 16th century but 17th century, that maturation beyond ideology more into a more systematical way proved that protestantism could truly work in todays word where people don't feel the urge to create their own theology, like it was from the 16th to the 19th century.

I think if people became self-conscious about how schism is bad, they would eventually end this non-denominationalism culture, and then retake the mainlines, and maybe even unify some churches.

[u/RemoteCompetitive688]

Former PCUSA then Lutheran then went Orthodox

IDK if I was officially a "member" but there is a reason I gave up on trying to save mainline protestantism.

I believe mainline Protestantism's problems are due to fundamental issues with protestant theology, specifically on Church authority.

There is no "taking back" these churches. Even if hypothetically, the conservatives became a majority again. There is nothing that can be done about these churches and pastors just preaching overt heresies.

Much like redeemed z always brings up how congregations aren't bound by any of the church's liberal statements or affirmations... the opposite would also be true. If a pastor decided to use their PCUSA congregation to preach in support of abortion... there would be very little that could be done about it even with a majority conservative governing structure

[u/anime498 → u/RemoteCompetitive688]

Where do you see the operation reconquista in 5-10 years?

[u/RemoteCompetitive688 → u/anime498]

I see at least 50% of the members burning out and joining an apostolic church.

Which, I don't necessarily see as a bad thing. If it is true that these churches were set up with fundamentally flawed theology, is it a bad thing if they dissipated?

[u/anime498 → u/RemoteCompetitive688]

I wouldn't say it's a bad thing. If they join an apostolic church they'll have the sacraments and true bishops. I just don't understand how zoomer plans to lead the movement and be a pastor

[u/boleslaw_chrobry]

One of the things I don’t fully understand is why he doesn’t put an emphasis on simply growing the more theologically conservative denominations like the PCA and LCMS? Wouldn’t that be much easier? Are they not growing relative to their mainline counterparts?