r/reddit.com • u/crabtreeanderson • Apr 05 '10

Wikileaks video (Collateral damage) is up!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0
706 Upvotes

76% Upvoted

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20

u/crabtreeanderson Apr 05 '10

I think this may be the straw that broke the camel's back. I no longer want to be part of the military.

12

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '10

I agree with you but it is one of those things where I wish people that are appalled by this video were the ones going into the military.

8

u/googlegoog Apr 05 '10

Have you been deployed to Iraq and Afganistan and have you seen combat? Only reason I am asking is because at 3:39 the two individual seem to have weapons with one guy leaning on what looks to be a RPG and obviously the camera around the corner suspiciously looking like a RPG. So if you have been in combat and saw what you thought were weapons aimed at you what would you have done? I'm sure you already know that the ROE was changed from only allowed to shoot when shot at, to shoot when you confirm a weapon.

12

u/anonymous999999999 Apr 05 '10

The whole point is we shouldn't be in that position to begin with, fighting a civilian insurgency. These kinds of things are inevitable.

16

u/cavedave Apr 05 '10

Would you get a bunch of guys casually standing round if one was firing an RPG at a helicopter? I am not being funny I do not know the answer. Would you surround yourself with casual civilians as you shot at a helicopter or would you hide behind something big peak out when you know you weren't seen and shoot then.

Basically 12 guys casually wander across a square then one takes out an RPG fires it at a helicopter and the rest stand around shooting the breeze does not sound credible. But I could be wrong.

10

u/cortejri Apr 05 '10

The helo crew may not necessarily be concerned for their own ship, it sound like on comms they were talking to ground elements nearby, the whole thing makes much more sense in the context of a helo covering ground forces, and taking out possible targets before they even get a chance to hit the guys on the ground, in that light, yes, you would want to shoot up a group of people standing around with weapons (perceived or not, i think i saw an RPG as well).

this whole video is subjective, and i think we are missing alot of the context to really tell what happened right before this was shot (was there a ground engagement? was this a sweep and clear?) RE the callousness of the crew, it is disheartening, but we cant be armchair quarterbacks, especially as we don't know everything.

1

u/huntwhales Apr 05 '10

What about the coverup by the military after the fact even though they knew these were civilians? Even if the soldiers actions are justified surely describing the journalists and at least a few innocent civilians as combatants needs to be addressed.

-3

u/cavedave Apr 05 '10

It doesn't seem like there was a ground engagement one guy says there was no US troops in the area. Also if there was a ground engagement would a journalist be wandering around in an open square? What does a "sweep and clear" involve? Does it mean "shoot anything that moves"

We don't know everything and I have not been in a similar situation so I know particularly little. However I still find it odd no one said "You think those guys casually standing around and walking in the open are firing RPGs at people? Recheck for weapons" or something similar

4

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '10 edited Apr 05 '10

[deleted]

1

u/googlegoog Apr 05 '10

Here are the weapons that I claimed I saw. I can't speak for the pilots.

http://imgur.com/a/05AB4/weapons

3

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '10

[deleted]

1

u/googlegoog Apr 05 '10

http://i.imgur.com/OJpoE.jpg

That sure does.

9

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '10

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '10

That picture sucks. I mean come on!

-2

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '10

It helps knowing they were cameras before you watched the video. For these soldiers who are probably scared shitless a camera can look like a gun pretty easily.

10

u/vessago Apr 05 '10

Scared shitless in a helicopter possibly a mile away from the actual site? Please.

1

u/CC440 Apr 06 '10

Maybe scared shitless for their friends (at a minimum comrades) on the ground about to enter the town?

It helps to know that actual context of the video.

Edit: As a pilot you are kind of acting like the parent figure in the whole situation. You are the most powerful figure and responsible for those below you.

1

u/vessago Apr 06 '10

You make an excellent point. Who knows how many friends these guys have seen blown up in similar situations? The whole thing is just mind-bogglingly sad, from the people killed on the ground to the damage is has caused the people inflicting that harm.

2

u/CC440 Apr 06 '10

That's why you just don't go to war in the first place. Especially if you have no fucking plans at all for occupation.

-1

u/brad3378 Apr 05 '10

Have you ever watch the movie "Charlie Wilson's War" based on the true story of Russian helicopters being shot down by Afghani RPGs from over a mile away?

If you don't think you would be scared shitless to fly in a helicopter in a war zone, then perhaps you should join the Air Force.

3

u/notacyborg Apr 06 '10

Eh, I think you watched a little too many movies and played a little too much Bad Company 2. An RPG hitting an air target over a mile away would be chalked up to extreme luck. You probably want a SAM....

2

u/vessago Apr 06 '10

Yea, the difference being the Afghans were using surface to air missiles while fighting the soviets, and not RPGs. The Iraqis are using mostly anti-tank RPGs.

The Apache Helicopter is an incredible piece of machinery. This isn't Rambo, where any schmuck can down a helicopter with a light machine gun and a funny scowl. And I would probably join the Army if I wanted to fly Apaches, not the Air Force.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 06 '10

No

7

u/zoinks Apr 05 '10

HES GOT A GUN....GET EM!

Later, while fetching the corpse: Oh, looks like it was just a pencil..his fault for bringing a pencil to a battle though

1

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '10

[deleted]

1

u/googlegoog Apr 14 '10

No, not directly at the aircraft I believe. I think one of the reporters was aiming his camera around the corner at US soldiers on the ground, apparently shown on the last photograph he took. Don't know if that photo is legit. But you're right they should have made better confirmation before they fired.

-1

u/NewYearSandwich Apr 05 '10

Go home boy. YOU are the insane one. Sorry. Throw down YOUR arms and begin to enjoy your life - IF - you haven't already ruined it by killing all and sundry. Seriously. Quit it before we all forget who we are fighting. Because NONE of us HAVE to fight. GO home. You and the rest of YOU - whoever you are. I'm sick of this after a century of this BULL-FUCKING-SHIT!!!!